OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[blumatic]

This thread is embarrassing now. Let the guy morn.

I asked the question earlier in this thread - how many posters here have lost a family member, and if it happened to them, how would they feel about having to return to their job in a week and meet demands that they perform that job at a higher level than before they experienced their loss?

I lost my big brother three years ago, and believe me when I tell you I'm still not over it.

Some of these callous 'fans' should hope like hell they never have to face what Stat is facing now. I guarantee you that very few of them will be able to handle it as well as Stoudemire is - and probably none of them face the pressure that Amare faces from those who supposedly 'admire' the team he plays for.

Having a loss has really nothing to do with what anyone in here is talking about.

This thread is not based on the past few games, but rather his entire time being here, mainly this season.

And for your answer to your question I have faced personal loses, my 1st wife and one of my children in a car crash, roughly 16 years ago.

Still had to work, still had my businesses to run, but most important.... a two year old daughter which was a twin, and a three year old son who in the blink of an eye did not have their mother and sibling.

I had to cope and be strong for them, as well as myself to help them, and it still saddens us even to this day, but we must move on even while in sorrow.

But back to the thread...no one is beating on Stat as a person, just the player.

Although I defend STAT, Im not gonna use his brother's passing as a defense. God bless Stat but his weaknesses were there before. Last 3 out of 4 games his 4 qtr play has been quality for us.

[makeitstop]

This thread is embarrassing now. Let the guy morn.

I asked the question earlier in this thread - how many posters here have lost a family member, and if it happened to them, how would they feel about having to return to their job in a week and meet demands that they perform that job at a higher level than before they experienced their loss?

I lost my big brother three years ago, and believe me when I tell you I'm still not over it.

Some of these callous 'fans' should hope like hell they never have to face what Stat is facing now. I guarantee you that very few of them will be able to handle it as well as Stoudemire is - and probably none of them face the pressure that Amare faces from those who supposedly 'admire' the team he plays for.

Having a loss has really nothing to do with what anyone in here is talking about.

This thread is not based on the past few games, but rather his entire time being here, mainly this season.

And for your answer to your question I have faced personal loses, my 1st wife and one of my children in a car crash, roughly 16 years ago.

Still had to work, still had my businesses to run, but most important.... a two year old daughter which was a twin, and a three year old son who in the blink of an eye did not have their mother and sibling.

I had to cope and be strong for them, as well as myself to help them, and it still saddens us even to this day, but we must move on even while in sorrow.

But back to the thread...no one is beating on Stat as a person, just the player.

Wow, that's rough, Thugger. Sympathies to you and respect for being strong for your kids.

Maybe Stat's loss isn't what people are talking about, but it's gotta factor in here. People cope with loss in different ways, and it's evident to me that Stat is feeling it still.

Maybe I'm looking at it differently than you, but I see a lot of comments both in this thread and especially in the game threads where people are denying Amare his humanity. And that truly bothers me.

I saw an article on the web last week where someone discussed how people tend to treat celebrities as objects or possessions rather than people, and that rang a bell. A lot of people who post here seem genuinely angry that Stat isn't performing up to their expectations or playing the way they want him to. I won't include you in that group, because you always come with a good argument and you back up your view with facts, and I respect that.

I can't extend that respect to those people who complain about Stat like he's a malfunctioning cell phone or a toy that stopped working and act like Stat owes them something. And there's a lot of that going on here. People gotta chill and let the guy get back to normal, whatever that is for Stat, and not what a bunch of selfish rage-heads on a message board think Stoudemire owes them.

My opinion. Rant off.

[Thugger HBC]

I asked the question earlier in this thread - how many posters here have lost a family member, and if it happened to them, how would they feel about having to return to their job in a week and meet demands that they perform that job at a higher level than before they experienced their loss?

I lost my big brother three years ago, and believe me when I tell you I'm still not over it.

Some of these callous 'fans' should hope like hell they never have to face what Stat is facing now. I guarantee you that very few of them will be able to handle it as well as Stoudemire is - and probably none of them face the pressure that Amare faces from those who supposedly 'admire' the team he plays for.

Having a loss has really nothing to do with what anyone in here is talking about.

This thread is not based on the past few games, but rather his entire time being here, mainly this season.

And for your answer to your question I have faced personal loses, my 1st wife and one of my children in a car crash, roughly 16 years ago.

Still had to work, still had my businesses to run, but most important.... a two year old daughter which was a twin, and a three year old son who in the blink of an eye did not have their mother and sibling.

I had to cope and be strong for them, as well as myself to help them, and it still saddens us even to this day, but we must move on even while in sorrow.

But back to the thread...no one is beating on Stat as a person, just the player.

Although I defend STAT, Im not gonna use his brother's passing as a defense. God bless Stat but his weaknesses were there before. Last 3 out of 4 games his 4 qtr play has been quality for us.

Yup, and I think that was the premise of the thread is that he truly needs to adjust, or move on.

Now here's a question though......

Given what Amar'e has gone through recently, would management pass on a trade that was good?

I don't think so, as harsh as this may sound....it's still a business.

[Thugger HBC]

I asked the question earlier in this thread - how many posters here have lost a family member, and if it happened to them, how would they feel about having to return to their job in a week and meet demands that they perform that job at a higher level than before they experienced their loss?

I lost my big brother three years ago, and believe me when I tell you I'm still not over it.

Some of these callous 'fans' should hope like hell they never have to face what Stat is facing now. I guarantee you that very few of them will be able to handle it as well as Stoudemire is - and probably none of them face the pressure that Amare faces from those who supposedly 'admire' the team he plays for.

Having a loss has really nothing to do with what anyone in here is talking about.

This thread is not based on the past few games, but rather his entire time being here, mainly this season.

And for your answer to your question I have faced personal loses, my 1st wife and one of my children in a car crash, roughly 16 years ago.

Still had to work, still had my businesses to run, but most important.... a two year old daughter which was a twin, and a three year old son who in the blink of an eye did not have their mother and sibling.

I had to cope and be strong for them, as well as myself to help them, and it still saddens us even to this day, but we must move on even while in sorrow.

But back to the thread...no one is beating on Stat as a person, just the player.

Wow, that's rough, Thugger. Sympathies to you and respect for being strong for your kids.

Maybe Stat's loss isn't what people are talking about, but it's gotta factor in here. People cope with loss in different ways, and it's evident to me that Stat is feeling it still.

Maybe I'm looking at it differently than you, but I see a lot of comments both in this thread and especially in the game threads where people are denying Amare his humanity. And that truly bothers me.

I saw an article on the web last week where someone discussed how people tend to treat celebrities as objects or possessions rather than people, and that rang a bell. A lot of people who post here seem genuinely angry that Stat isn't performing up to their expectations or playing the way they want him to. I won't include you in that group, because you always come with a good argument and you back up your view with facts, and I respect that.

I can't extend that respect to those people who complain about Stat like he's a malfunctioning cell phone or a toy that stopped working and act like Stat owes them something. And there's a lot of that going on here. People gotta chill and let the guy get back to normal, whatever that is for Stat, and not what a bunch of selfish rage-heads on a message board think Stoudemire owes them.

My opinion. Rant off.

I really haven't seen anyone attack him as a person, and that would be poor if that's the case.

I don't think a single person wants the team to go through another trade and break momentum, and a good flow going forward.

But I do think as fans, and being a fan of a team that hasn't won in decades, we do feel this team is not that far off, as of today, and we expect every single player to get with the program.

To me, that is reasonable, very reasonable.

[Besart19]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_sto ... stats.html

In his first 8 games of this season he was averaging 22.1 pts and 9.0 rebs

These stats tell us that his problems now are: The loss of his bro and his knees/back!! So we have to give him time and all the needed support. If he cant return to be the old Amare than the FO have to consider trading him!! But lets be positive and hope for the best! Go NY!!

[Clyde_Style]

If anyone believes fans here are dumping on Stat, but are not considering that he is still in mourning for his brother, I think you'd be mistaken. Many of us know what it means to lose someone like that. My mother died a tragic death and it hurts to this day, but it is not really going to be expressed in a sports game either way. If you have issues off the court, you can still play relatively up to your abilities. It is the best time to get your mind off your sorrows actually. So, I don't think anyone should accuse other fans of being insensitive towards Amar'e. We're sorry for his loss. But when we talk hoops, we have to be honest and not everyone can be in agreement over everything anyway.

[qm22]

It's strange that posters accuse Amar'e of "fake hustle". Besides being a tactless way to treat anyone on your roster who brings a good attitude it is a pretty unintelligent comment given Amar'e's history. STAT worked his way back from multiple career ending type injuries when in Phoenix and relentlessly refined his weaknesses (OK, his offensive and conditioning weaknesses, not defense).

"You can never question my determination, my focus, my dedication," Stoudemire said following the game. "That's one of the reasons why I persevered through injuries and continue to try to improve every single summer. So my dedication to the game is at an all-time high." (From WCF).
I think Stoudemire has a pretty strong case over his career, so it is fair to point out a lack of production, it is stupid to say "fake hustle".

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

Lee is good in the PnR??? I think I've heard of a better PnR PF who, to paraphrase, when in the PnR defenses knew it was coming but couldn't stop it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPSpvdpnxUw&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

I know Amar'e and Lin have yet to find success in their pick and roll but in his career up until now Amar'e has been the best PnR PF in the game. He usually has great catching ability and the best finishing ability, as well as good sense on how to force the defense to be forced to switch. I am pretty sure that even though Amar'e is more stiff than he was last year he is better than he had been in his first year back from microfracture. In short, I would be shocked if Lin and STAT do not eventually exploit the pick and roll routinely.

On a last note, it is tough to say how the death of his brother lingers over basketball issues. I'm sure he is hurt, but for some people basketball (or their work) is something they can throw themselves into and use to recover... I doubt STAT is someone like Lamar Odom who is easily emotionally thrown off. His issues are mostly about his conditioning and lack of cohesiveness.

His conditioning might haunt him over the shortened season, I just hope he is fine for the playoffs. Playing with Lin, Melo, and Chandler can hopefully let him ease the burden to his body going forward.

[Rasho Brezec]

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

If Mark Jackson had the final say in this, I think that trade would go through. But the new Warriors ownership might actually be smarter than the guys they had in the past.

I'd do that trade in a second, though. Sheding 7M off our cap and getting back a guy that easily replaces Amare's production at nearly half the salary is a no brainer.

[Stoosh]

He's clearly on the cusp of a decline. That in itself is not unexpected but the rate at which it has happened just a year into a $100 million contract is the real issue. I would not be surprised if he gets traded within the next 12-18 months.

[duetta]

Amare likely will have to lose weight to regain his explosiveness.

And the issue isn't one of bashing Amare, at least for me, it's one of trying not to get stuck with a terrible contract (and all the dead cap space it entails) - especially now that there's zero flexibility left going forward.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

If Mark Jackson had the final say in this, I think that trade would go through. But the new Warriors ownership might actually be smarter than the guys they had in the past.

I'd do that trade in a second, though. Sheding 7M off our cap and getting back a guy that easily replaces Amare's production at nearly half the salary is a no brainer.

Another version of that idea.

Amare, TD to the Rockets for Scola, Dragic, and Martin to the Wovles. (and hope to get a 1st from Houston, but not a deal breaker).

Wolves send Beasley (expiring) and Tolliver (expiring) + a pick or two to NY.

That sheds about 9 to 10 million of salary for next season. Dragic could be resigned as a backup, but more money to resign JR, Lin, etc. That's if NY is actually under the cap. NY also has to add players though.

Lin/(Dragic / Davis)
JR / Shump
Tyson / JJ
Melo / Novak
Scola / Jorts

Melo, Scola, Tyson, Shump, (Balkman), Jordan, Harrellson = ~49 million
Storytellers has JR signed up a assumed 2 years? I assume that is wrong, great if not.

Believe that gives some wiggle room.

[NoStatsGuy]

to be honest, i think lin is playing like a superstar on mvp level regulargame time or crunchtime i doesnt matter right now.

and we are winning.. why trade stat now? let him get comfortable and chill as long as we are linning, everything will be allright.

it just helps the knicks, amares play in the fourth was there, thats everything that matters to me.. i dont care about stats in the first 3 quaters as long as its close and we walk away with the W in the end.

get melo back.. then kick some serious butt out there, lets see how far this goes.

GO KNICKS

[Johnny Hoops]

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

If Mark Jackson had the final say in this, I think that trade would go through. But the new Warriors ownership might actually be smarter than the guys they had in the past.

I'd do that trade in a second, though. Sheding 7M off our cap and getting back a guy that easily replaces Amare's production at nearly half the salary is a no brainer.

I like the Lee deal --- once we got Melo/Tyson ---- Lee is much better fit. He is a ball mover - he cuts - can post in right match-up and knock down shots all over the court. Plus he gets you 10 boards a night. He's NOT very good defensively but he's much better suited with Tyson playing behind him.

Plus freeing up cash would allow us to retain a guy like JR SMITH and maybe do some other minor deals.

[Johnny Hoops]

I like this Amare deal -- particularly because I think MJ might be desparate enough to pull trigger.

Amare/TD = $19.4M

for

Diaw/T. Thomas/ Augustine = $19.5M

Diaw $9.0M and Augustine $2.8M both expire this season --- freeing up $ to resign a JR Smith and maybe an Augustine as (Lin) back-up next season.

Tyrus gives us another long defender/shot blocker that would really boost our defense -- plus we get much younger with him. Offensive game a little better than Tyson.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

and we are winning.. why trade stat now? let him get comfortable and chill as long as we are linning, everything will be allright.

NY was winning without him. NY doesn't need him now. Last year, as the man to put up STATs, it was nice. But now NY has players who can score, Melo, JR, and Lin. Plus a big who can around the basket in Tyson. What the team needs, isn't a STAT guy who can't defend and isn't a good rebounder for his position. Amare isn't needed now, and NY has a better chance of winning without him (if the right pieces are brought in).

[seren]

I like this Amare deal -- particularly because I think MJ might be desparate enough to pull trigger.

Amare/TD = $19.4M

for

Diaw/T. Thomas/ Augustine = $19.5M

Diaw $9.0M and Augustine $2.8M both expire this season --- freeing up $ to resign a JR Smith and maybe an Augustine as (Lin) back-up next season.

Tyrus gives us another long defender/shot blocker that would really boost our defense -- plus we get much younger with him. Offensive game a little better than Tyson.

I can easily say that Charlotte has zero interest in a trade like this. They are not a franchise that will pay one player 20 million per.

[Kidknick!]

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

Knicks should have never let Lee go. I would do that deal in a heartbeat, even if it meant taking Kwame back. And a pick? Sign me up.

[seren]

Golden State is dying to obtain an impact big. Amare and TD for David Lee, a pick, and Kwame's expiring contract opens up a lot of cap room. Lee is good in the PnR and probably a better compliment to Melo's game. With Lee, the Knicks would have a beastly group on the boards too.

Knicks should have never let Lee go. I would do that deal in a heartbeat, even if it meant taking Kwame back. And a pick? Sign me up.

I don't think Lee + Kwame is plausible. Lee + Biedrins, however, is very much obtainable.

[stuporman]

Is everyone forgetting how badly Lee played defense? He's the only PF I could honestly say made Amar'e look good as a defender.

[Rasho Brezec]

No, Amare's defense is worse.