Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[Marlo Stanfield]

Another draft thread only tidbit from tonight. Dude who was picked 60th overall with the infamous name dropped 23 points, 8 rebounds and 11 assists tonight. Scoutin' fo yo ass!

[sunny]

2005 draft: unc team success- tons of players drafted, none became stars. Illinois led by Deron, he becomes a star in the nba.
2006 draft - duke and uconn were the two best teams in the league. Hilton Armstrong, Rudy Gay, Marcus Williams, Josh Boone. Duke had JJ and Sheldon Williams.
2007 - florida had the best team, three players got drafted and two ended up becoming moderately successful. best player from the class (kd) was the star of his team.
2008 - all the top draft picks led their teams
2009 - two best teams were uconn and unc. thabeet was a bust. unc had three players drafted with Ty lawson being somewhat succesful.
2010 - kansas kentucky and syracuse were the best teams. bust from syracuse. two busts from kansas and 5 first round picks from kentucky (jury still out but somewhat disappointing)

[Marlo Stanfield]

I missed what this discussion is about. What are you trying to prove Sunny?

[sunny]

im not trying to prove anything. i was trying to see if any other realgmers would help me look into the effect of playing on a team with other great players has on someones draft ranking and overall success in the nba.

[Marlo Stanfield]

im not trying to prove anything. i was trying to see if any other realgmers would help me look into the effect of playing on a team with other great players has on someones draft ranking and overall success in the nba.

I don't think there's any relation between the amount of great players on a team versus success in the NBA judging by the 2005 draft alone. There might be a correlation between being the best player on your college team, being an NBA star, and being drafted in the lottery though.

[sunny]

My name is not my name - Spiros "vondas"

[Ackshun]

My name is not my name - Spiros "vondas"

I'm confused. If that was Marlo, why does it say Spiros?

[Marlo Stanfield]

My name is not my name - Spiros "vondas"

I'm confused. If that was Marlo, why does it say Spiros?

Watch this beast of a series you noobs....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0K-tfJLiFE[/youtube]

[Ackshun]

If we're picking #3-#6, I entertain HEAVILY Jeremy Lamb, MKG, or Thomas Robinson.

I figure AD/Barnes go 1-2

[sunny]

My name is not my name - Spiros "vondas"

I'm confused. If that was Marlo, why does it say Spiros?

the wire is the most comprehensively brilliant show ever written (imo-sorta).
Marlo says "my name is my name"
Spiros says "my name is not my name"
those two lines are a microcosm of what the show tries to represent and display throughout its 5 seasons.

[fredericklove]

its not an argument, its just something I'm curious about.
and its something that influences people on this board. Take for example when Uconn starts playing poorly and people instantly think Jeremy Lamb's stock drops.

well people said it but I don't, he remains top 5 pick for me, during this time of the year player's stock fluctuate anyways, but when it comes to draft day, they look beyond the team's success/failure and logically analyze the player's game in depth analysis....for example, Georgin Tech really went downhill yet on draft day, teams still drafted Favors at 3rd pick for his potential (I still think Favors has good potential, he's just raw and not getting playing time right now, I don't see him as a bust yet)

[Marlo Stanfield]

My name is not my name - Spiros "vondas"

I'm confused. If that was Marlo, why does it say Spiros?

the wire is the most comprehensively brilliant show ever written (imo-sorta).
Marlo says "my name is my name"
Spiros says "my name is not my name"
those two lines are a microcosm of what the show tries to represent and display throughout its 5 seasons.

I catch new things when I go back and watch Youtube clips. It's such a deep show, so many things went over my head on the first time around. Then on the second time I was like wait, what? Ohhhh!!!

[Undefeated]

Against all star players such as JJ, Granger, Gay and Pierce, Barnes has the potential (long frame, solid footwork and strength) to slowing their inside and outside game, but for someone like lebron or Melo, there's absolutely no chance at stopping them. I can't see Barnes able to catch up to these two's elite strength & elite quickness.

As for MKG, he might struggle from guarding elites who post up well, but he'll be very legit in terms of on ball defense, he's just so quick and always stay ahead of his man no matter what.

I'm going to go out on a limb here since I have this gut feeling that Barnes has the best shot at defending LeBron and 'Melo out of anyone from this draft when it's all said and done. He already has a solid NBA frame and the lateral quickness where he's further along the NBA developmental curve. With some seasoning and time to fill out his frame more, he should have some elite strength that will put him in the same company as them. As long as Barnes can bother LeBron and 'Melo on their takes to the basket, that's good enough for me because they'll start settling for the outside jumper. I don't know, maybe it's Barnes' defensive fundamentals that makes me really high on his defensive potential.

[fredericklove]

Against all star players such as JJ, Granger, Gay and Pierce, Barnes has the potential (long frame, solid footwork and strength) to slowing their inside and outside game, but for someone like lebron or Melo, there's absolutely no chance at stopping them. I can't see Barnes able to catch up to these two's elite strength & elite quickness.

As for MKG, he might struggle from guarding elites who post up well, but he'll be very legit in terms of on ball defense, he's just so quick and always stay ahead of his man no matter what.

I'm going to go out on a limb here since I have this gut feeling that Barnes has the best shot at defending LeBron and 'Melo out of anyone from this draft when it's all said and done. He already has a solid NBA frame and the lateral quickness where he's further along the NBA developmental curve. With some seasoning and time to fill out his frame more, he should have some elite strength that will put him in the same company as them. As long as Barnes can bother LeBron and 'Melo on their takes to the basket, that's good enough for me because they'll start settling for the outside jumper. I don't know, maybe it's Barnes' defensive fundamentals that makes me really high on his defensive potential.

This just made me jizzed for some harry fanboy reason . If I don't see him in our lineup next year, I will commit suicide right in front of David Stern.

[gojoorange]

I'm sure a lot of you guys watched the game as well, but I found these Barnes highlights from their recent game vs. Miami. Check it out, his handles are looking tight.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm0hWuzP0tQ[/youtube]

[CunningLinguist]

I'm definitely not much of a fan of Barnes, but his jumper LOOKS as good as anyone's IMO.

It looks mechanical. Sure it'll work at colegiate level, but what happens when you put a 6 9 guy with a 7 foot + wingspan with a hand on his face?

How can you possibly say Barnes' jumper looks mechanical compared to Miller? Barnes squares his shoulders and has a high release point and a smooth follow through. Miller, on the other hand, tends to release from his chest a lot, which he'll need to correct to prevent from having his shot blocked at the next level. He also tends to lean in when he shoots rather than going straight up for his jumper.

That being said, I think Miller has a lot of potential, and I would rate him above MKG at the small forward position.

[CunningLinguist]

i haven't been following kentucky much, but would it be remotely possible to take anthony davis and run him at the 3 on defensive matchups and at the 4 on offense? so we can have a frontcourt of valanciunas, bargs, and adavis; if davis can guard the 3 that'd be a pretty potent combination

Even if Anthony Davis could defend the 3, you would be putting Bargs in a situation where you're limiting his quickness/skill advantage on offense that he has against power forwards. You would be trying to turn him into a post player to take advantage of his size vs. small forwards, as he would not have the same advantages that he know has against PFs.

[CunningLinguist]

Well I won't get into an argument about what Quincy is in the NBA because there's no way I can win with no proof. However, KD dominated the NCAA being completely healthy and option 1, 2, 3 & 4 on offense. Being featured sorta helps...like....kinda a lot.... If Quincy were featured and played more than 25mpg he'd probably put up something like 20 ppg, 8 rpg, 2-3 apg. I mean the guy is shooting almost 50% from 2 and over 40% from 3. Check this out:

Guess who turned out better between these two sophomores in college?

Option 1 - 20 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.551 FG%, 0.779 FT%
VERSUS
Option 2 - 20.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.450 FG%, 0.853 FT%

Pretty close, not too much separation between these two. The difference is, one guy was featured and the other was not. FYI option 1 is Michael Jordan and option 2 is Joseph Forte. All I'm saying is performance in college doesn't always determine NBA success. Both of these guys were viewed as can't miss prospects but only one succeeded. Most people on here (including me) would be jizzing themselves if either of these guys were in this 2012 draft. So back to my original argument that KD was featured, as he should have been, as opposed to Quincy who gets shots after Jones, Jackson and even Acy get theirs. No, I'm not saying Quincy will be better than KD (that would be crazy), but the comparison is valid because their games are similar. And of course Q blowing out his knee holds him back even further, but I think people will see what this guy is truly made of if there's a coach smarter than Scott Drew who will actually feature this beast.

Perry Jones III is a PF no ifs and buts.

Fixed.

^^^
Stats are good to throw out there, but they dont tell the story especially in the NCAA.

Did you actually watch Kevin Durant in College?
Did you watch Joe Forte?
For example, Rashad McCants was way better than Joe Forte at UNC but stats wont necessarily show that.

Quincy's lack of elevation on his shot and slow release will not work at the next level unless he changes more than a few things which at this stage I doubt.
He doesnt have that commending presence which explains why he doesnt get the shots ( yup it is not that "Easy" Quincy).


Have you actually watched Perry Jones play?
Anthony Davis is a Power Forward, PJIII moves like a wing and has the shooting mechanics of a wing.

Dont be fooled by his PF/C starting position at Baylor; for example Glenn Big Robinson was a starting 4 at Purdue most of the time.

Chris Bosh has similar shooting mechanics to Perry Jones. Is he a small forward? While Jones' handle is good for a PF, it's not so good for a SF. His high dribble would be exposed to smaller players.

He would have more of a competitive advantage on offense at the 4, given his quickness and ball handling for that position. He's a face up 4 at the next level, though he may see some time at the 3 early in his career until he gains strength.

On defense, Jones can't even stay in front of power forwards at the college level. What makes you think he can guard small forwards in the pros?

[CunningLinguist]

Joe Forte was definitely not a "can't miss" prospect - at least not even close to being the one Jordan was.

Don't twist my words. I said they were both "can't miss" prospects (which if you actually remember correctly was true about Forte as well), but I never said Forte was at the same level as Jordan. The comparison is just to show the similarity in the stat lines, except one goes onto be the GOAT while the other falls into NBA obscurity.

Forte was never a can't miss prospect. For one, he was undersized for his position.

[wegetitin08]

I meant to focus on players who played on great teams where they weren't the leading factors in that teams success. Finding the difference between players who played on great teams because they made those teams great vs players who look good because they play on great teams.

I think it could help evaluate players like Barnes of MKG in isolation because their situations disguise their abilities.

Fredericklove - care to join in?[/quote]


well the thing is duke and UNC aren't teams that build their system revolving around one guy, its 5 guys that initiate team offense play (PG, big man, lots of p&r/screens), so its really hard to analyze on the players on this, sunny.[/quote]

I don't think it really matters with the amount of elite highschool players Roy Williams has gotten at UNC who played integral roles in their teams success only to become mediocre players or busts in the nba.

I'm not saying there is a direct causal factor taking place, but I think there is a definite trend of overrating players who happen to play on great teams with several other stars.[/quote]

You cant expect every single player that UNC or Duke produced to turn out to be star, some pan out to be stars, some pan out to be a solid rotational players, ....u would expect at least one or two under those two teams would pan out as stars - Irving, Pierce.[/quote]

Didn't Pierce go to Kansas though?... I didn't follow his whole college career (so I don't know if he changed school)