Devin Harris for Garcia/Fredette

blackham9258 · Post #1 » by **blackham9258** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:39 pm

Devin Harris was an All Star 3 years ago. He stinks frankly in the Jazz system because we are asking him to be a slow down half court player which is something he is not. He is a leader though, and a true PG and would come back to form in your offense and would provide some veteran leadership. He would push the ball and wouldn't be playing out of position, like Fredette. He also would be great a drive and kick player and unlike the Jazz who have no shooting to kick out to, he would be a tremendous fit.

Jazz get the local kid back for some much needed outside shooting. Garcia no matter what you think of him is a salary you would rather not have coming off the bench or getting DNP's for $6M a year.

Harris provides skill, defense, transition offense, leadership and upside when he returns to form at a position of need, and he comes off the books next year so you aren't committing long term to a mistake like Salmons.

Yes you give up a fan favorite, but a fan favorite who is getting benched right now in favor of the 6oth pick in the draft.

Thoughts?

ADoaN17 · Post #2 » by **ADoaN17** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:41 pm

Maloof's don't do this. They love Jimmer.

blackham9258 · Post #3 » by **blackham9258** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:18 pm

Maloofs ought to tell that to their coach:). What do the fans think of Jimmer vs Isaiah Thomas?

SacSanity · Post #4 » by **SacSanity** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:29 pm

Isiah is 10x the athlete and skilled player Jimmer is. The only thing Jimmer can do is make a 1/3 open 3's that he takes. Jimmer is not an NBA player. I'd do this trade without hesitation.

blackham9258 · Post #5 » by **blackham9258** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:56 pm

It is sometimes hard for a franchise to justify these kinds of trades because it makes them look bad or look like they don't know what they are doing. In your case moving back to take the 3rd best pg when you could have had Knight or Kemba.

Frankly if I were you guys I would have taken Knight or Biyombo. Biyombo just seems like a humble kid who will kill himself to defend and block shots and not cause trouble or take up shots that Cousins and Evans/thornton etc want to take. I thought he was your perfect fit for what your needs were.

That said, if Harris returns to form for you or just improves slightly from his production here, you get good value.

Question for you though: Is the fan base in love with Jimmer, were they ever? Or has that all faded?

SacKingZZZ · Post #6 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Thomas is a great energy guy, Fredette is still a better prospect IMO. I think people forget how well Jimmer played for a few games when he got the time, then as many under coach Smart, disappeared to the realm of darkness for some unexplained reason.

rekecousbeast · Post #7 » by **rekecousbeast** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:42 pm

I would do this in a second. Jimmer is terrible. I never thought he would do much in the NBA. Harris used to be a very good point guard and I have more confidence that he will return to a former high level of play then I have in Jimmer amounting to much of anything.

PaKwAn · Post #8 » by **PaKwAn** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:58 am

This is still jimmer's 1st yr and with the small sample that i have seen him play i actually have been impressed with his vision... His shot will eventually be there... Most of his mistakes can be corrected but i want him to improve his dribbling and handles the most... Kid needs time and experience....

As for the trade, im not a fan of devin... He has been awful and will stay that way... If it was the devin of old (mavs years) then hell yes... He was nice when he was more of a defensive player... But that was long gone...

bibby1023 · Post #9 » by **bibby1023** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:55 am

I don't get why so many people are labeling jimmer a bust 30 games into his nba career. I'd pass on this trade, Harris will be turning 29 in a week, and he's lost his touch.

Post #10 » by **ICMTM** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:45 am

Because many people never saw him being any better than a JJ Reddick or Adam Morrison. I am not really a Jimmer Fredette fan myself and think this trade would be GREAT. The BUT is Harris isn't resigning here so you're basically asking someone to take Garcia so that we do not have to pay him anymore.

Talent wise though I like the deal. I just don't know about basically giving away Jimmer to let Garcia expire early. If we were retaining Devin Harris for three years I'd be all for it.

blackham9258 · Post #11 » by **blackham9258** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:01 am

Retaining Devin Harris is well within your capacity under the new cba. This is a rare situation where I think every player in the deal gets more minutes and gets put into a position to improve.

deNIEd · Post #12 » by **deNIEd** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:03 am

bibby1023 wrote:I don't get why so many people are labeling jimmer a bust 30 games into his nba career. I'd pass on this trade, Harris will be turning 29 in a week, and he's lost his touch.

A massive bust...mostly because of what we gave up to obtain him.

Beno Udrih and (Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker) for Jimmer and John Salmons.

He's supposed to be a "shooter"...but he isn't even shooting well. What can he do if he can't even shoot?!!

Walker and Knight have both been great...while Jimmer...well...he's not even the best rookie on our team.

bibby1023 · Post #13 » by **bibby1023** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:25 am

deNIEd wrote:
bibby1023 wrote:I don't get why so many people are labeling jimmer a bust 30 games into his nba career. I'd pass on this trade, Harris will be turning 29 in a week, and he's lost his touch.

A massive bust...mostly because of what we gave up to obtain him.

Beno Udrih and (Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker) for Jimmer and John Salmons.

He's supposed to be a "shooter"...but he isn't even shooting well. What can he do if he can't even shoot?!!

Walker and Knight have both been great...while Jimmer...well...he's not even the best rookie on our team.

I understand that, but you have to realize that it takes some rookies longer to adapt to the game then others...aka late bloomers, I understand that Jimmer is what 22 or 23 years old. I'm just not ready to give him that label of a bust when he's barely through the first half of his rookie season(and a short season at that). When you think about the trade I 100% agree, I'd much rather have kemba/knight but you can't change the past so ive moved on from that trade, and am rooting for Jimmer to improve.

deNIEd · Post #14 » by **deNIEd** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:44 am

bibby1023 wrote:I understand that, but you have to realize that it takes some rookies longer to adapt to the game then others...aka late bloomers, I understand that Jimmer is what 22 or 23 years old. I'm just not ready to give him that label of a bust when he's barely through the first half of his rookie season(and a short season at that). When you think about the trade I 100% agree, I'd much rather have kemba/knight but you can't change the past so ive moved on from that trade, and am rooting for Jimmer to improve.

Of course. But I'm not willing to pass up a good deal involving Jimmer simply because we are waiting for him to "bloom." Just like I'm not willing to hold out on trading Tyreke, Thompson, Hickson, (anyone not named DeMarcus).

I don't think the label of "bust" necessarily means anything. I just don't see him as an integral part of our future. He is just as expendable as any other player on this roster.

Like I said in the other thread...when the team is a bottom 5-6 team again..for the 3rd/4th year in a row...almost no one is "untouchable."

deNIEd · Post #15 » by **deNIEd** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:49 am

The potential of a Biymbo/Cousins frontline?

boogie-reke · Post #16 » by **boogie-reke** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:23 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:Thomas is a great energy guy, Fredette is still a better prospect IMO. I think people forget how well Jimmer played for a few games when he got the time, then as many under coach Smart, disappeared to the realm of darkness for some unexplained reason.

People also forget that you play on both sides of the court though - and that Jimmer on the other side of the court is arguebly the worst player in the league.

bibby1023 · Post #17 » by **bibby1023** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:53 pm

deNIEd wrote:
bibby1023 wrote:I understand that, but you have to realize that it takes some rookies longer to adapt to the game then others...aka late bloomers, I understand that Jimmer is what 22 or 23 years old. I'm just not ready to give him that label of a bust when he's barely through the first half of his rookie season(and a short season at that). When you think about the trade I 100% agree, I'd much rather have kemba/knight but you can't change the past so ive moved on from that trade, and am rooting for Jimmer to improve.

Of course. But I'm not willing to pass up a good deal involving Jimmer simply because we are waiting for him to "bloom." Just like I'm not willing to hold out on trading Tyreke, Thompson, Hickson, (anyone not named DeMarcus).

I don't think the label of "bust" necessarily means anything. I just don't see him as an integral part of our future. He is just as expendable as any other player on this roster.

Like I said in the other thread...when the team is a bottom 5-6 team again..for the 3rd/4th year in a row...almost no one is "untouchable."

And neither am I, if we can land a great pg or sf that will fit nicely with this team in exchange for Jimmer i'm all for it. I'm just tired of people pretty much implying that he's a worthless piece of **** with some of their comments. All I'm saying is give the kid some time, he's not untouchable but he's more valuable then an aging Devin Harris who is a terrible fit for this team imo.

bibby1023 · Post #18 » by **bibby1023** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:54 pm

deNIEd wrote:The potential of a Biymbo/Cousins frontline?

Let's just get Anthony Davis in the draft :wink:

boogie-reke · Post #19 » by **boogie-reke** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:25 pm

deNIEd wrote:The potential of a Biymbo/Cousins frontline?

We should rename ourselfs the Foulmento Kings.. imagine both of them and JT lol.

SacKingZZZ · Post #20 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:59 pm

boogie-reke wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Thomas is a great energy guy, Fredette is still a better prospect IMO. I think people forget how well Jimmer played for a few games when he got the time, then as many under coach Smart, disappeared to the realm of darkness for some unexplained reason.

People also forget that you play on both sides of the court though - and that Jimmer on the other side of the court is arguebly the worst player in the league.

Hardly anyone at the PG positions plays respectable defense. Since hand checking was thrown out the door it's almost impossible to be a true stopper. There are ways to get around it though with other aspects of defense, and it's a lot like Hayes, just being used entirely wrong. Jimmer is going to be a great asset for a team needing some shooting. So far he's been used as a pick and roll PG. :roll:

With that said he's not bad, but what about him spreading the floor and getting some easy looks.