Let's discuss Derrick Favors

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #1 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:52 am

Now, 30 games into this season:

 MPG  FG%   3P%   FT%   OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG  TO  PF PPG
20.1 0.503 0.000 0.640 1.7 3.5 5.3 0.4 0.4 0.9 1.5 2.1 8.4

Is he where he was supposed to be? Is he behind or is he ahead? Has he convinced anyone that he will be a dominant superstar? Or maybe just an allstar? Do you think he'll end up being a bust?

I'll let y'all answer then I'll chime in. As for now, I still would like to see him start for Millsap but as I said, I'll let y'all start.

Go...

Jazzfan12 · Post #2 » by **Jazzfan12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:56 am

He's been playing much better in the last few games (including tonight) than he has for the first 20 games of the season, really terrible start to the year. He's really dumb on offense and is lazy too often on defense, but hopefully he can gain a better approach to the game and become similar to Tyson Chandler.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #3 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:14 am

Couldn't disagree more that he's stupid on offense and lazy on defense, not even sure where you get that from.

I think he's right on track. He shows flashes of being something really special. I really feel that he needs to be starting by the end of the year to continue his development. I still expect him to be a 20-10 guy before it's all said and done.

Jazzfan12 · Post #4 » by **Jazzfan12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 am

Because he tries to dunk over defenders that rotate over instead of passing it to the open man on pick-and-roll and transition and takes terrible shots against triple teams in the post which is shown by his extremely high turnover rate and extremely low assist rate. He also was coasting really badly on defense for the first 20 games and was basically doing nothing, but he's improved his effort a good deal in the last few games.

Ugly0598 · Post #5 » by **Ugly0598** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:50 am

Favors has been a huge disappointment to me, just really disappointed in the development, yeah he's 20 years old, but I don't see much improvement or enough flash besides the athleticism. Kanter impresses me more and I think will be a better overall player in the long run.

Maybe Favors being a starter will help? Yeah maybe I'm just being negative due to the fact he should be getting more minutes to see to prove how good he'll be.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #6 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:49 pm

Well, remember he had that monster preseason game and was a starter at the begining of the season. Had that huge game vs Phily too. Then, he faded as he barely got 20 minutes a game (still doesn't). Yes, he's had ups and downs but what has really got me worried is his athletism, or lack there of. For guy compared a lot to Dwight Howard, he really doesn't get up that high that easily. He gets blocked so much and I haven't seen him once blow by a defender and just slam it down on everyone else. He looks slow and heavy (to what expectations of him were in that regard). Still, he hasn't been all that bad, and I get really mad when he's having a solid game but Corbin still pulls him at around 16-18 minutes. Really? IMO, Favors needs to start so Millsap can help our bench be more effective (and Millsap himself) and play at least 20 mpg. I remember when Millsap was a sophmore with Memo and Booz, Millsap got more minutes off the bench than what Favors gets. I can't pass that. Also, I don't think our coaching staff has really gotten the best out of our players (I'll adress that in another thread at the AS break) and got them in position for them to exel in. It's like they are being forced to play in a certain way, even if they aren't good at that, and that explains a lot of our struggles for consistency IMO. Still, on Favors, I'm not sold on him being an athletic freak, so he has to really learn more fundamentals to be a force. He's shown flashes and should start alongside Al (as was the plan at the begining of the season) for now.

carrottop12 · Post #7 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:11 pm

8-3.

Jazz record when Favors plays 20 minutes or more.

Enough said.

Jazzfan12 · Post #8 » by **Jazzfan12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Bat wrote:8-3.

Jazz record when Favors plays 20 minutes or more.

Enough said.

To be fair, 5 of those wins were against absolutely terrible teams. Jazz had a super easy schedule to start which was also when Favors was getting more minutes. It seems more correlation than causation before even getting into that he's often played 18 minutes several times in losses and 22 minutes often in wins. I doubt those four minutes make too much of a difference on the Jazz.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #9 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:23 pm

Bat wrote:8-3.

Jazz record when Favors plays 20 minutes or more.

Enough said.

Good stat. Again, I believe he should start for Millsap right now, that stat supports that claim, and really, why the hell not? It's not like you're running Millsap from the team or anything, just Favors starts, gets 20+ minutes and Millsap off the bench, gets 30 mins max. Is it too hard to grasp at this point?

Post #10 » by **jazzfan1971** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Well, last year I thought he was projecting to be a poor man's Duncan. I'm having to revise that down this year.

I'll say a poor man's Rasheed Wallace minus the personality defects. This year. I hope I don't have to revise downwards again.

He's just not the defensive force I was expecting. And I don't think he will become that. I think his offense will come along, and his rebounding will be good. I just don't expect a defensive anchor any longer. He really plays under the rim on defense for the most part. And he's reluctant to defend the rim, I think he is really gunshy about picking up fouls trying to defend the rim and is just putting his hands in his pockets lately.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #11 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:47 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:He's just not the defensive force I was expecting. And I don't think he will become that. I think his offense will come along, and his rebounding will be good. I just don't expect a defensive anchor any longer. He really plays under the rim on defense for the most part. And he's reluctant to defend the rim, I think he is really gunshy about picking up fouls trying to defend the rim and is just putting his hands in his pockets lately.

I understand the concerns about him not being the prolific shot blocker we thought he was going to be this year but I honestly believe that as he continues to grow and gain more playing time that his shot blocking will come along.

He's not always going to struggle to stay on the floor due to foul trouble. The longer he plays, the better he'll learn to not get into foul trouble. It's just like anything else with his game, he just needs more time to fully develop it.

I really do still expect him to become a defensive anchor and rim protector. My guess is that we'll see him average 2+ bpg. multiple times throughout his career.

HolyToledo · Post #12 » by **HolyToledo** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:34 pm

Favors offense game has progressed including his free throw shooting. He needs to play 35 min per game where he would average 15-17 points per game and 9 rebounds with the potential to progress to an Allstar ina year ot two. Trade away the Vets and start the young guys and see what happens. Going with the cup half empty so far has not helped anyone.

carrottop12 · Post #13 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:00 pm

For once I'm going to completely agree with Toledo.

Right now I honestly believe the Jazz are risking hurting Favors confidence more than helping him progress by keeping him on the bench. After a season last year that he admitted that not knowing where he was going to be hurt his confidence, you can't risk breaking him even more by sticking him behind Al and Paul all season.

I know he's young, but at some point you have to throw him in the deep end and tell him to sink or swim. Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap aren't all of a sudden going to explode past the almost all-stars that they are and lead the Jazz to a championship, if we want to improve it's time to give Favors the keys.

carrottop12 · Post #14 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:04 pm

For once I'm going to completely agree with Toledo.

Right now I honestly believe the Jazz are risking hurting Favors confidence more than helping him progress by keeping him on the bench. After a season last year that he admitted that not knowing where he was going to be hurt his confidence, you can't risk breaking him even more by sticking him behind Al and Paul all season.

I know he's young, but at some point you have to throw him in the deep end and tell him to sink or swim. Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap aren't all of a sudden going to explode past the almost all-stars that they are and lead the Jazz to a championship, if we want to improve it's time to give Favors the keys.

You have to let him know that he's the future of the franchise, and he won't learn that spending 30 minutes a night riding the pine.

Montanajazz · Post #15 » by **Montanajazz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:13 pm

I'm ready for jazz to start Favors and bing Milsap off the Bench. also I would like to see Burkes start!

Favors and Burkes will respond with real starter playing time. If the jazz need to move Milsap, Bell, hopefully Miles and maybe even Harris and Howard, that would clear up space for Favors, Burkes, Kantor and Hayward. Its not like the jazz are going to win anything this year with a starting line-uo of
harris, Bell and Milsap in it. Let the young---uns play!!!!!

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #16 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:44 pm

Bat wrote:For once I'm going to completely agree with Toledo.

Right now I honestly believe the Jazz are risking hurting Favors confidence more than helping him progress by keeping him on the bench. After a season last year that he admitted that not knowing where he was going to be hurt his confidence, you can't risk breaking him even more by sticking him behind Al and Paul all season.

I know he's young, but at some point you have to throw him in the deep end and tell him to sink or swim. Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap aren't all of a sudden going to explode past the almost all-stars that they are and lead the Jazz to a championship, if we want to improve it's time to give Favors the keys.

You have to let him know that he's the future of the franchise, and he won't learn that spending 30 minutes a night riding the pine.

The thing is trading away Al and Paul isn't required to have Favors start. I agree that Favors should to start in Millsap's place but not to just get rid of them to "make room" for anybody.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #17 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:56 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:Well, last year I thought he was projecting to be a poor man's Duncan. I'm having to revise that down this year.

I'll say a poor man's Rasheed Wallace minus the personality defects. This year. I hope I don't have to revise downwards again.

He's just not the defensive force I was expecting. And I don't think he will become that. I think his offense will come along, and his rebounding will be good. I just don't expect a defensive anchor any longer. He really plays under the rim on defense for the most part. And he's reluctant to defend the rim, I think he is really gunshy about picking up fouls trying to defend the rim and is just putting his hands in his pockets lately.

Well, Rasheed Wallace had a preatty solid offensive game, and was also really good on defense. From what I've seen, nothing has given me a hint that he has the fundamentals down to become such an offensive player yet. But again, he really hasn't been able to consistantly play alongside either Al or Millsap and thrive off of them. Him playing with a rookie in Kanter (who also needs quite a bit of work on offense) I think has hurt him somewhat. Corbin needs to play Favors considerably more consistant minutes than Kanter, so he can play with Al and Paul more and see where that gets us.

Post #18 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:04 pm

Bat wrote:For once I'm going to completely agree with Toledo.

Right now I honestly believe the Jazz are risking hurting Favors confidence more than helping him progress by keeping him on the bench. After a season last year that he admitted that not knowing where he was going to be hurt his confidence, you can't risk breaking him even more by sticking him behind Al and Paul all season.

I know he's young, but at some point you have to throw him in the deep end and tell him to sink or swim. Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap aren't all of a sudden going to explode past the almost all-stars that they are and lead the Jazz to a championship, if we want to improve it's time to give Favors the keys.

Yep. But it's tough to tell Corbin to play anyone except the guys who give him the best shot at winning NOW. And right now, Millsap and Al are better than Favors. This is why most teams trade away their peaked vets when they get a young player they want to develop at the same position.
This is what I've been saying since the start of the season.

So why haven't the Jazz done that? I see a few possible reasons:

A) the Jazz don't believe that Favors/Kanter can become better than either Millsap or Jefferson
B) they believe they're developing fine playing fewer than 20 minutes a game
C) they're delusional about this team's ability to compete as constructed
D) they need the fan base to believe the team is competing, rather than rebuilding, to keep ticket sales strong

HolyToledo · Post #19 » by **HolyToledo** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:27 pm

It is clear to me our starting lineup should be as follows but I was told by a Jazz beat writer during an after game chat discussion that Big Al's ego would not allow him to come off then bench, thus trading him maybe the best option for team unity.

Lineup should be as follows:

PG Harris Watson (like they have been used thus far)
SG Bell (deserves to start) (25 min) Burks (23 min)
C Favors (28 min per game) Jefferson (10 min) Kanter (10 min)
PF Millsap (30 min) Jefferson (18 min)
SF Hayward (play him 34 min per game) Miles (14 min)

No min for Tinsley, Carrol, Evans, and Howard (may need to Release or trade him if he causes problem) Miles does more on the court now than Howard.

Playing 11 players has been too much...need to play only 10 players

babyjax13 · Post #20 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:57 pm

HolyToledo wrote:It is clear to me our starting lineup should be as follows but I was told by a Jazz beat writer during an after game chat discussion that Big Al's ego would not allow him to come off then bench, thus trading him maybe the best option for team unity.

Lineup should be as follows:

PG Harris Watson (like they have been used thus far)
SG Bell (deserves to start) (25 min) Burks (23 min)
C Favors (28 min per game) Jefferson (10 min) Kanter (10 min)
PF Millsap (30 min) Jefferson (18 min)
SF Hayward (play him 34 min per game) Miles (14 min)

No min for Tinsley, Carrol, Evans, and Howard (may need to Release or trade him if he causes problem) Miles does more on the court now than Howard.

Playing 11 players has been too much...need to play only 10 players

I like Kanter with Millsap more, he covers up Paul's size a bit more. Favors seems to do pretty well with Al as well. And why wouldn't we start Jefferson? He's clearly the best player on the team....people just got deluded by January. I don't mind starting Paul and Al together, they actually tend to get us off to a good start, but I'd like to see them paired more with the young guys.