the main problem with the suns

schnakenpopanz · Post #1 » by **schnakenpopanz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:56 pm

from nba.com power rankings:

Phoenix (13-19)
Pace: 94.6 (13), Off: 99.5 (19), Def: 102.6 (23)
Remember how the Suns had a terrific second unit just two seasons ago? Now their bench is their Achilles heel. Their starters have the third-best plus-minus (plus-96) of any five-man unit in the league, better than any unit on the Bulls or Thunder. But the Suns have been outscored by 98 points overall

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22011&split=9&team=

whambamslam · Post #2 » by **whambamslam** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Thats insane. The bench is just awful

Calvin Klein · Post #3 » by **Calvin Klein** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:34 pm

It's pretty obvious if you watch the games. Any lead we might have evaporates as soon as Telfair, Brown, Lopez, etc enter the game.

visions · Post #4 » by **visions** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:39 pm

Obviously there is a massive talent dropoff between our starting 5 and our bench, with exception of Morris (and arguably Redd) but what kills our bench is the massive dropoff in basketball IQ, especially on offense. They are completely unable to run our offense at all. Even if they could do it 10% as good as the starters we'd be better off.

Sadly this second unit is a black hole when it comes to offense. When the starters are in the ball keeps moving and the players keep moving. When the bech comes in it's all ISO's and terrible contested shots with the shot clock winding down while everyone else stands around.

In fact I would say our bench plays some of the worst (maybe THE worst) basketball I have ever seen and I've been watching NBA for over 20 years.

nash2amare · Post #5 » by **nash2amare** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:02 am

Well the biggest problem is pg position.

Dragic to Telfair is a BIG drop off

RunDogGun · Post #6 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:16 am

Well there is a few things missing. One is the bench we used to have, who came in and gave some all out hustle, and had roles that they filled. LB was our second unit scorer, and to an extent so was Frye. Lou did all the dirt work and gave second shots for LB, Frye, and Dudley. Goran would drive back then, and did a decent job running the squad.

Now we have no one that can run the offense, well no one Gentry plays, no dirt worker (when Price and Chilldress sit), and no real scorer. Brown and Redd can score, but because of Telfail, that offense doesn't start until eight or less seconds left. Not enough time for anything to happen. No real rebounder, if Morris is run through for offense. It's just a sad group of almost beens.

I don't know why Gentry doesn't try Hill off the bench to run that second squad. In fact, we could run Nash, Dudley, Chilldress, Frye and Gortat, and then Price, Redd, Hill, Morris, and if we have to Lopez. I would rather it be just Morris, Frye, and Gortat as our only bigs. If Frye isn't hitting his shots, like 1-5, he isn't allowed to shoot anymore until he grabs ten rebounds or gets three blocks.

Ryu · Post #7 » by **Ryu** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 am

We could have Dragic as a bench leader now. And could draft Marshon Brooks with that pick. What a terrible trade that was from the beginning and now looks even worse.

nash2amare · Post #8 » by **nash2amare** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:10 am

Ryu wrote:We could have Dragic as a bench leader now. And could draft Marshon Brooks with that pick. What a terrible trade that was from the beginning and now looks even worse.

We better land something by trading Brooks to Lakers or something.

Else we traded Dragic and 1st for NOTHING

_Nashoholic_ · Post #9 » by **_Nashoholic_** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:58 am

WE WANT PRICE

JohnVancouver · Post #10 » by **JohnVancouver** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:02 am

Let me mine the communal brain for some history and knowledge here - when we had the Wonder Bench and made it to the WCF, how was it we dismantled the roster that summer? What was the sequence of Bad Ideas?

I know JRich was expiring and we couldn't afford him. And that's also the summer that LB wanted out?
I can't get it straight in my mind how we manage to balls it up so badly, so fast.

LB for Turk
No offer to Sweet Lou
then Turk and JRich to ORL

what else?

JohnVancouver · Post #11 » by **JohnVancouver** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:04 am

Here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80 ... uns_season

gaspar · Post #12 » by **gaspar** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:20 am

nash2amare wrote:Well the biggest problem is pg position.

Dragic to Telfair is a BIG drop off

Riiight

Sunsfan03 · Post #13 » by **Sunsfan03** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:21 am

I dont even know what our coaching staff actually see in telfair.
To me hes just a chucker and a poor playmaker, the only play he runs is drive and kick and he sucks at it.
If it were up to me we should just roll with:
Price
Brown
Childress
Morris
Lopez

Frank Lee · Post #14 » by **Frank Lee** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:11 am

JohnVancouver wrote:Let me mine the communal brain for some history and knowledge here - when we had the Wonder Bench and made it to the WCF, how was it we dismantled the roster that summer? What was the sequence of Bad Ideas?

I know JRich was expiring and we couldn't afford him. And that's also the summer that LB wanted out?
I can't get it straight in my mind how we manage to balls it up so badly, so fast.

LB for Turk
No offer to Sweet Lou
then Turk and JRich to ORL

what else?

I really think our demise is rooted in the signings of Warrick and Childress, coupled with the trade of Dragic.

Step into the way-back machine and replace Hak and Chil with a 7mill FA and LouA, then add Dragic and MBrooks to this squad.

Few teams can absorb four or five consecutive and poor personnel moves without some drop off. Especially on the heels of losing a focal point (Stat). The mediocre band-aids added this yr did absolutely nothing to detour the plummet or soften the landing. Welcome to the abyss.

Hindsight is well lit pathway to a very dim present.

JohnVancouver · Post #15 » by **JohnVancouver** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:34 pm

gaspar wrote:
nash2amare wrote:Well the biggest problem is pg position.

Dragic to Telfair is a BIG drop off

Riiight

Dragic rebounded nicely in Houston. He's not the second coming but he's a very good combo guard who plays defense. three qualities one does not find in Mr. Telfair

JohnVancouver · Post #16 » by **JohnVancouver** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:37 pm

[quote="Frank Lee"]
I really think our demise is rooted in the signings of Warrick and Childress, coupled with the trade of Dragic.

Step into the way-back machine and replace Hak and Chil with a 7mill FA and LouA, then add Dragic and MBrooks to this squad.[quote="Frank Lee"]

I want to go to there

RunSunRun · Post #17 » by **RunSunRun** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:18 pm

I still can't believe we gave up Dragic AND a pick for a 25 game rental of Aaron Brooks, :lol:

The Life of the Suns fan - continual disappointment

jleckie602 · Post #18 » by **jleckie602** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:45 pm

nash2amare wrote:Well the biggest problem is pg position.

Dragic to Telfair is a BIG drop off

DRAGIC

Post #19 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
JohnVancouver wrote:Let me mine the communal brain for some history and knowledge here - when we had the Wonder Bench and made it to the WCF, how was it we dismantled the roster that summer? What was the sequence of Bad Ideas?

I know JRich was expiring and we couldn't afford him. And that's also the summer that LB wanted out?
I can't get it straight in my mind how we manage to balls it up so badly, so fast.

LB for Turk
No offer to Sweet Lou
then Turk and JRich to ORL

what else?

I really think our demise is rooted in the signings of Warrick and Childress, coupled with the trade of Dragic.

Step into the way-back machine and replace Hak and Chil with a 7mill FA and LouA, then add Dragic and MBrooks to this squad.

Few teams can absorb four or five consecutive and poor personnel moves without some drop off. Especially on the heels of losing a focal point (Stat). The mediocre band-aids added this yr did absolutely nothing to detour the plummet or soften the landing. Welcome to the abyss.

Hindsight is well lit pathway to a very dim present.

Plus, when we let Amare go and replaced him with Frye in the starting lineup, another good bench guy became a sub-par starter. And then this season Dudley moved from the bench to the starting lineup.

Just because guys are great bench players don''t mean they will be great starters...not sure management thought this through....but then the bigger problem is that you have to replace those good/great bench players with other people, and these are all guys that no other team wanted, that we gave contracts to (Brown, Telfair, Price, Childress, Warrick).

Wannabe MEP · Post #20 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Nash/Dragic
Richardson/Barbosa
Hill/Dudley
Amare/Lou
Fropez/Frye

SGs: Both of these guys were really expensive for what they brought.
PFs: One plays poor defense; the other plays poor offense.

Ultimately, Amare was leaving. We needed to fill that spot with a defensive upgrade even if we lost some offense there. We never managed to do that. Our replacement ideas (Warrick and Turk) proved wholly inadequate.

No Amare + Injured Fropez forced Frye into the starting lineup. That meant both Lou and Frye were gone from the 2nd unit. That unit has been trash ever since.