Quick Stat Question

[-Kees-]

I'm looking to find a stat, and I've already asked a few people from this board, and so far no one has known where to find it. However, I see people using it a lot on this board, and I'm assuming there is a site to find it, and that these posters aren't going through every game to find this stat.

What my main goal is to find the impact of certain players, and how the team does both record wise, and in terms of offensive and defensive efficiency (ORTG and DRTG), when a player isn't playing in a game.

So, for example, how do the Bulls do in terms of ORTG when Rose is out compared to when he plays? How does their record look when he doesn't play? I could look up the stats of each game, then average them out and compare. But is there a site that does this for people, and for every player?

If someone could show me a way to find these stats faster, or a website that has these listed, it would be much appreciated.

[colts18]

Basketball-reference.com

[-Kees-]

Where on bball-ref does it show that? Ive looked all around that site and cant find anything, only way I can find is to go by each box score, and then average the ones he played in, and the ones he didnt, then compare.

[SideshowBob]

I'm looking to find a stat, and I've already asked a few people from this board, and so far no one has known where to find it. However, I see people using it a lot on this board, and I'm assuming there is a site to find it, and that these posters aren't going through every game to find this stat.

What my main goal is to find the impact of certain players, and how the team does both record wise, and in terms of offensive and defensive efficiency (ORTG and DRTG), when a player isn't playing in a game.

So, for example, how do the Bulls do in terms of ORTG when Rose is out compared to when he plays? How does their record look when he doesn't play? I could look up the stats of each game, then average them out and compare. But is there a site that does this for people, and for every player?

If someone could show me a way to find these stats faster, or a website that has these listed, it would be much appreciated.

82games.com

http://www.82games.com/1112/11CHI3.HTM#onoff

[-Kees-]

Thanks man, although thats not EXACTLY what I'm looking for.

From what I can tell, that describes every time that someone steps off of the court, I'm more looking for whole games. Like if the Bulls played 5 games, Rose played the first three, and they had ORTGs of 111, 110 and 109 with 3 wins. So with Rose playing games, Bulls have an average of 110 ORTG and are 3-0. The 2 games Rose misses, say his team has an ORTG of 100 and 98 with 2 loses, so without Rose the Bulls have an average 99 ORTG and are 0-2.

That is more what I'm looking for, and its possible to find by going through every game and averaging out everything (so going through all Bulls games and taking ORTG for each game he was in, then averaging that out, then taking each ORTG he didn't play in, then averaging that out, then comparing them), but that is very time consuming.

And I understand if there isn't a site out there that does this, but it seems like a lot of posters are able to find these stats, and I'd wonder if all of them go through all the games to find the stats.

[SideshowBob]

Thanks man, although thats not EXACTLY what I'm looking for.

From what I can tell, that describes every time that someone steps off of the court, I'm more looking for whole games. Like if the Bulls played 5 games, Rose played the first three, and they had ORTGs of 111, 110 and 109 with 3 wins. So with Rose playing games, Bulls have an average of 110 ORTG and are 3-0. The 2 games Rose misses, say his team has an ORTG of 100 and 98 with 2 loses, so without Rose the Bulls have an average 99 ORTG and are 0-2.

That is more what I'm looking for, and its possible to find by going through every game and averaging out everything (so going through all Bulls games and taking ORTG for each game he was in, then averaging that out, then taking each ORTG he didn't play in, then averaging that out, then comparing them), but that is very time consuming.

And I understand if there isn't a site out there that does this, but it seems like a lot of posters are able to find these stats, and I'd wonder if all of them go through all the games to find the stats.

Yeah that's the only way I can think of; going through each of the games individually. It'd be much easier if BBallRef had a page of team game logs with Advanced Stats because then it wouldn't be nearly as time consuming to do the calculation.

Sorry man

[mopper8]

Hoopdata has advanced box scores for every game (Chicago's games here), but obviously you need to consider the fact that total possessions is going to vary game to game and you should weight the Ortg of each game appropriately. Or, just tally up total points and total possessions, which they already have calculated for you, to get Ortg and Drtg. This should be easier than working off basic boxscores where you'd have to do possession calculations by hand, at least.

[EvanZ]

To the OP, why do you not want to use adjusted +/-, when it is readily available and addresses the question at hand better?

[-Kees-]

One of the main reasons is I want to directly see the record of the team change (which is why I'm looking for both the record when a certain player is out and the impact in ORTG and DRTG).

Another reason is that IMO it is much different for a player (especially a legit piece, like a go-to-guy or top defender) to have missed a whole game then just part of one. Using Rose as an example again, it's much different when he is out part of a game, because CJ Watson only has to play against 2nd string guys, for the most part. Where if Rose is out the whole game, Watson will have to play more against 1st string guys which has a different effect than playing against 2nd string guys.

Idk if I'm being clear or if that makes sense, but its like if Rose comes out, most of the other starters will too, so the whole overall play of the players on the court will go down as both teams move to 2nd units. So it's more about benches at this point than actually Rose himself coming off the floor, because guys like Deng, Noah, ect will most likely come off at a similar time. Where if he is out the whole game, you will really see the impact because someone else will have to play those crunch time minutes, and if they aren't as good as Rose (and if Rose has as big of an impact as most think), then it will really show up in the stats because instead of Rose playing with the Deng/Noah/Boozer group, its Watson, so if he has a lesser impact than Rose, it will show in the ORTGs and DRTGs.

Another reason is because if there was some other site, I'd hope it'd have past players, because that's what I want it for them most (even though I've been using Rose as an example).

I'm hoping someone on realgm has found a site like this, but if they haven't I may just have to settle for plus/minus stuff and going through the box scores.

[EvanZ]

The sample size will be very small if you look at it that way, and in theory, adjusted +/- is doing exactly the adjustment (for opponent and teammate quality) that you're concerned about.