Will LeBron pass Bird as best SF ever?

[ahonui06]

No.

Bird was one of only 3 players to win 3 consecutive MVPs and the other 2 were big mean (Russell & Wilt).

Bird also has 3 titles.

Bird is also a better rebounder despite his lack of athleticism, better shooter, better passer...the list goes on and on.

i mean lebron won 2 and only didnt win it last year because he was on the heat, if he stays with Cleveland rose has a 0.0% chance of winning it

Great what if scenario there, but the point is LeBron quit on the Cleveland organization and left for Miami to play with two other stars and try and win the easy way. He doesn't have that killer instinct.

[parapooper]

Bird's rookie season was without McHale & Parish and he turned the Celtics around from worst to first in the Eastern Conference. LeBron couldn't even make the playoffs in his rookie season in the weak East.

Bird's impact on the court is just greater than LeBron's. LeBron didn't have what it took to carry an organization to a title and Bird did. Bird won a title in his second season while LeBron once again didn't even make the playoffs.

Just a few more reasons as to why Bird is the GOAT SF.

LeBron came to the NBA from high school

[parapooper]

LeBron left his organization to take the easy route.

Celtics had the GOAT GM, Red Auerbach who constructed a team around Larry Bird. And don't ever get confused, Bird was the alpha dog on those Celtics teams.

So your point is that wasting half your career in the armpit of America on a crap team with a completely incompetent GM and only then (after that imbecile expects you to to sign with a starting unit in their mid-30s for the next 7 years) going to a team as stacked as Bird's is an easy route compared to spending your whole career with the GOAT GM and prime HOFers?

[ahonui06]

Bird's rookie season was without McHale & Parish and he turned the Celtics around from worst to first in the Eastern Conference. LeBron couldn't even make the playoffs in his rookie season in the weak East.

Bird's impact on the court is just greater than LeBron's. LeBron didn't have what it took to carry an organization to a title and Bird did. Bird won a title in his second season while LeBron once again didn't even make the playoffs.

Just a few more reasons as to why Bird is the GOAT SF.

LeBron came to the NBA from high school

What does that have to do with anything? It was his choice to jump straight to the NBA. He should've listened to his own advice from those State Farm commercials and stayed in school if he wasn't ready for the NBA.

The point is that in their first season, Bird made the Celtics do a 180 and lead them the playoffs while LeBron made them marginally better and didn't even make the postseason.

[ahonui06]

LeBron left his organization to take the easy route.

Celtics had the GOAT GM, Red Auerbach who constructed a team around Larry Bird. And don't ever get confused, Bird was the alpha dog on those Celtics teams.

So your point is that wasting half your career in the armpit of America on a crap team with a completely incompetent GM and only then (after that imbecile expects you to to sign with a starting unit in their mid-30s for the next 7 years) going to a team as stacked as Bird's is an easy route compared to spending your whole career with the GOAT GM and prime HOFers?

It's been reported that LeBron had heavy influence on personnel decisions throughout his tenure in Cleveland. Essentially, he was co-GM with Danny Ferry during his years. He is as much to blame as the organization if that is the case. Even so, he was playing in a watered down East and missed the playoffs his first two seasons in the league.

And his cast was decent enough to make the 2007 Finals, so Ferry was completely incompetent as you previously mentioned.

[delonte]

He's already better than Bird ever was. once he gets a couple rings people will put him past bird without any doubt.

[ahonui06]

He's already better than Bird ever was. once he gets a couple rings people will put him past bird without any doubt.

[JordansBulls]

He's already better than Bird ever was.

How so?

[GreenHat]

He's already better than Bird ever was.

How so?

He's just a better player.

All the stats that you use to prop up Jordan in other threads, Lebron beats Bird significantly in.

I've seen you mention WS before, why are you ignoring that Lebron at 26 already has 3 seasons better than Bird ever has (and is going to get a 4th this year even with a lockout)

You've also used WS/48 in which Lebron takes another dump on Bird.

I believe you have also used PER and Lebron kills Bird there too. A peak season for Bird would be a bad season for Lebron in that metric.

And again that's all assuming equal defense but we know Lebron is a lot better than Bird there as well.

Why do your stats only apply when they support the conclusion you already wanted to reach?

[GreenHat]

LeBron left his organization to take the easy route.

Celtics had the GOAT GM, Red Auerbach who constructed a team around Larry Bird. And don't ever get confused, Bird was the alpha dog on those Celtics teams.

So your point is that wasting half your career in the armpit of America on a crap team with a completely incompetent GM and only then (after that imbecile expects you to to sign with a starting unit in their mid-30s for the next 7 years) going to a team as stacked as Bird's is an easy route compared to spending your whole career with the GOAT GM and prime HOFers?

It's been reported that LeBron had heavy influence on personnel decisions throughout his tenure in Cleveland. Essentially, he was co-GM with Danny Ferry during his years. He is as much to blame as the organization if that is the case. Even so, he was playing in a watered down East and missed the playoffs his first two seasons in the league.

And his cast was decent enough to make the 2007 Finals, so Ferry was completely incompetent as you previously mentioned.

They made it only because of Lebron. Who was the rest of the rotation on that team?

And I love your "logic". Now Bird is a better player than Lebron because Red was a better GM than Lebron. No one could possibly poke a hole in that type of iron clad reasoning.

And again he played those first two seasons as a teenager. Only a fool would compare a 19yr old to a 23yr old. You do realize that there is a difference, right?

Its not Lebron's fault that he was so much better than Bird that he reached the NBA before Bird could even reach Indian St. Players were allowed to be drafted out of high school in Bird's day. If he was better he would have been picked up then.

[SideshowBob]

Here's Lebron's fourth quarter numbers from the 2007 finals

Code: Select all

MP      FGA    FTA    TRB    AST    PTS     eFG%   TS%    TOV%
11.8    7.5    2.0    1.8    2.0    9.8   .533   .582   .126

9.8 points per game in the fourth, 22 per game for the series; that's 44.5% of his points in that series coming in the fourth quarter.

Contrary to belief, this sounds more like a case of an underdeveloped offensive player struggling against a great defense, but overcoming that in the fourth quarter by sheer mental fortitude.

It's not like these were blowouts either, the Spurs won by an average of 6 points per game, with the largest margin being 11 points (only double digit game)

[rrravenred]

What were the 3/4 time margins? It COULD also be a lapse in defensive intensity with the game already won.

[SideshowBob]

Game 1: 49-67, Lebron scores 6 in the fourth on 75% TS
Game 2: 62-89, Lebron scores 8 in the fourth on 50.8% TS
Game 3: 55-50, Lebron scores 12 in the fourth 55.8% TS
Game 4: 60-52, Lebron scores 13 in the fourth on 59.7% TS

If anything, he played better in the closer games

[FANOFNBA]

i really cant see lebron ever passing bird as the best sf ever. bird was either better or close at almost every aspect of the game and he has the accolades

[GreenHat]

i really cant see lebron ever passing bird as the best sf ever. bird was either better or close at almost every aspect of the game and he has the accolades

Defense?

If anything that statement works better the opposite way with Lebron instead.

[ahonui06]

i really cant see lebron ever passing bird as the best sf ever. bird was either better or close at almost every aspect of the game and he has the accolades

Defense?

If anything that statement works better the opposite way with Lebron instead.

Bird is better shooter, better rebounder, better passer, better leader, better winner, and more successful in the postseason.

LeBron is a slightly better defender, but Bird was no slouch. He made two All-D teams during his career despite being unathletic.

Unless LeBron wins multiple titles as the man he will never surpass Bird.

[JordansBulls]

i really cant see lebron ever passing bird as the best sf ever. bird was either better or close at almost every aspect of the game and he has the accolades

You don't Lebron will have more accolades than Bird?

[Regulio]

Everything depends on rings for LeBron now. MVP will be hard to win for him, he is still quite young though. They have a serious challenger for EC title in Chicago, and WC has some strong teams as well.
Telling that LeBron is better than Bird on everything is beyond ridiculous, it's a whole new level of absurd. Bird was a much better basketball player, but can't compare as an athlete. Imagine Bird with LBJ's athleticism...