Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[Undefeated]

What am I supposed to take from that video? That he can dominate against midgets?

That he can potentially be a face up offensive threat with that ball-handling ability.

[Reignman]

Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?

I think Barnes is exactly where he should be. Started off last season with too much hype, then everyone jumped off the bandwagon and now this season he is being judged the for the prospect he is.

He's going top 5 in this draft and rightfully so.

[Dr Positivity]

Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?

He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one

[dballislife]

Anyone of davis, drummond, barnes, perry, mkg, or lamb in that order and i'll be fine

[Alfred]

If you think that a reasonable prediction for MKG is a bench player, you're also way off. He projects to be a starter in the NBA. A guy similar to prime Gerald Wallace, or a more explosive Luol Deng.

A more explosive Luol Deng? Seriously?
Deng is much bigger and longer than MKG plus he is much (much) better shooter than he is.

You could compare Barnes to Deng in a way but not MKG.

Calling him a poor man's G-Wallace is not far off but MKG is much smaller than Crash (with his narrow shoulder)

While his length is not currently known (and won't be truly known until the combine), Michael Kidd-Gilcrhist is 6'7'', while Deng is 6'8''. MKG is only 18, so he could certainly grow an inch.

I'm also not calling him a "poor man's" Gerald Wallace. I'm saying that Gerald Wallace is a good comparison for him, which he is.

In any case, you comparison to T-Will was way off base, considering T-Will was NEVER considered as good a prospect as Kidd-Gilchrist. Using T-Will's career to say that he's going to be a career bench player is pretty dumb.

[ash_k]

Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?

He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one

They do not have his measurements, they didnot have to perform under pressure "every night" in one of the biggest storied school in the nation

it counts

[Alfred]

If T-Will wasn't an absolutely awful shooter/finisher, he'd probably be getting a lot of burn right now. But he isn't, so he isn't.

[ash_k]

If T-Will wasn't an absolutely awful shooter/finisher, he'd probably be getting a lot of burn right now. But he isn't, so he isn't.

I personally believe , he has NOT been given that opportunity (ala Lin yet) to gain(regain) that confidence he once fully had on his ability and play through his mistakes (and improve)

[DreamTeam09]

Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?

He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one

No point in creating your own shot if you can't freaking finish it... Its easier to start from the outside-in rather than the inside-out if you are a wing prospect... The fact that ppl are gonna have to respect your jump shot will open up your driving / slashing / passing game... Korver is a horrible example b/c thats just not his game at all... Budinger is good but hes not a star for a lack of handles...

[Alfred]

If T-Will wasn't an absolutely awful shooter/finisher, he'd probably be getting a lot of burn right now. But he isn't, so he isn't.

I personally believe , he has NOT been given that opportunity (ala Lin yet) to gain(regain) that confidence he once fully had on his ability and play through his mistakes (and improve)

The problem with Terrence Williams is that there's plenty of evidence (his entire college career, as well as his limited time in the NBA) that he'll never be an efficient scorer in the NBA.

[fredericklove]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond.

You

are

crazy.

[fredericklove]

First off, I didn't say AD will fail, I said IN THE EVENT that neither does well their first year, we still have a better shot at trading for 2013 1st overall (ie Shabazz) with Drummond and our 2013 first than with a Davis and 2013.

You're talking about non-realistic stuff about how we get first pick and if things don't work out with him, trade him for the 2013 1st pick. That's 1st pick for another 1st pick, one for one. No one does that.

You think other teams GM are stupid? You're trading that especially if Shabazz is THAT good as advertised, no team would give up Shabazz for AD especially if AD becomes what scouts and everyone fear the most (massive potential but lacks desire)....cmon man, be realistic here. Talking about nonsense like having better shot at trading for 2013 1st overall (ie Shabazz) with Drummond. SMH

[ash_k]

If T-Will wasn't an absolutely awful shooter/finisher, he'd probably be getting a lot of burn right now. But he isn't, so he isn't.

I personally believe , he has NOT been given that opportunity (ala Lin yet) to gain(regain) that confidence he once fully had on his ability and play through his mistakes (and improve)

The problem with Terrence Williams is that there's plenty of evidence (his entire college career, as well as his limited time in the NBA) that he'll never be an efficient scorer in the NBA.

I dont see him as scorer; I see him as complimentary player
Going 15ppg 5rpg 3apg 1BPG 1SPG

He has a tight handle and quick first step to make things happen if given the opportunity

Combine that with his strong body, his length and ridiculous athleticism .

He has all the tools required to be a Defensive stopper! and cover both wing positions

[DarkKnight]

Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?

He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one

Barnes is a dynamic shot creator. It just happens that his best shot is the jumper so he creates that shot. He's got a relentless array of moves to free himself in the midrange, and the best midrange shot in the draft. Korver and Budinger are spot-up only shooters and cannot be trusted to create anything for themselves. Recent data showed that Barnes was creating 60+% of his own offense, which is very high. And he's solid around the basket - it's just really packed around the basket in UNC games with Henson and Zeller and their defenders camped under the basket most of the time.

[fredericklove]

He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one

No point in creating your own shot if you can't freaking finish it... Its easier to start from the outside-in rather than the inside-out if you are a wing prospect... The fact that ppl are gonna have to respect your jump shot will open up your driving / slashing / passing game... Korver is a horrible example b/c thats just not his game at all... Budinger is good but hes not a star for a lack of handles...

Comparing Barnes to Korver and Budinger is stupid, both of those guys not only lack handles but they don't even have any offensive repertoire as foundation to build with. Those two are just pure shooters off screen, even budinger who has better handle than Korver is just below average in terms of shot-creating ability or driving to the basket, he can't even absorb contact.., you deliberately used those two to downgrade Barnes I get that. Barnes has an offensive repertoire to balance out his shooting ability. And Mufasa I agree with you on one thing, we need stars, not role players, that's exactly why we don't need Leonard or Henson they don't project to be stars at all, just a bunch of athletic bigs with moves that are thriving in college system at best, but when it comes to big men analysis, you have the most inaccurate bias. You only value "athleticism", thats it, that's why you trash about Val in many occasions cos he isn't an athlete.

[DreamTeam09]

Val isn't an athlete, says who????

[ATLTimekeeper]

I dont see him as scorer; I see him as complimentary player
Going 15ppg 5rpg 3apg 1BPG 1SPG

He has a tight handle and quick first step to make things happen if given the opportunity

Combine that with his strong body, his length and ridiculous athleticism .

He has all the tools required to be a Defensive stopper! and cover both wing positions

Just for the record, there's only a handful of wings in the league that can put up better numbers than 15/5/3. And being a defensive stopper? That's an energy player off the bench? I liked Williams coming out of college, too, but he had several flags.

-Couldn't hit free throws
-Blew a lot of lay-ups
-Ran point in Louiseville, but turned the ball over a lot and probably wouldn't be given the same chance in the NBA
-college senior, questionable upside
-a little eccentric, possible personality disorder
-late development curve, wasn't considered a high pick until his senior year
-didn't get to the line a lot
-never had a TS over 52

Anything remotely resemble Michael Kidd-Gilchrist there?

[fredericklove]

Val isn't an athlete, says who????

He said he's an athlete but an AVERAGE one.

A lot of people compare him to Biedrins and Tyson Chandler who are elite athletes. Valanciunas is a passable but not dynamic NBA athlete. The fact that people insisted on calling JVal a plus NBA athlete unnerved me all of last year. He's as athletic as Varejao and Zaza

Like I said I think Valanciunas is a fine enough prospect. I'm not saying he's a bust...
he simply doesn't have dynamic athleticism, skill or bball IQ and without one of those things you're holding a business class ticket basically every time

It's entirely possible he ends up Krstic as well

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1157529

[JamesNaismith]

Why do people listen to Mufasa's rants on Val when they've read him glorify Meyers Leonard? lol

[ash_k]

I dont see him as scorer; I see him as complimentary player
Going 15ppg 5rpg 3apg 1BPG 1SPG

He has a tight handle and quick first step to make things happen if given the opportunity

Combine that with his strong body, his length and ridiculous athleticism .

He has all the tools required to be a Defensive stopper! and cover both wing positions

Just for the record, there's only a handful of wings in the league that can put up better numbers than 15/5/3. And being a defensive stopper? That's an energy player off the bench? I liked Williams coming out of college, too, but he had several flags.

-Couldn't hit free throws
-Blew a lot of lay-ups
-Ran point in Louiseville, but turned the ball over a lot and probably wouldn't be given the same chance in the NBA
-college senior, questionable upside
-a little eccentric, possible personality disorder
-late development curve, wasn't considered a high pick until his senior year
-didn't get to the line a lot
-never had a TS over 52

Anything remotely resemble Michael Kidd-Gilchrist there?

It is all about being given an opportunity to showcase your talent and be allowed to play through your mistake. ( again, ala Lin )

T-Will had(has) a rare combinations of talent and physical tools

Bayless would flourish too if given that "famous" opportunity.