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Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

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Whom do you want the Raptors to select in the 2012 NBA draft?

Anthony Davis
51
32%
Harrison Barnes
38
24%
Andre Drummond
6
4%
Perry Jones
3
2%
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
19
12%
Quincy Miller
5
3%
Jeremy Lamb
22
14%
Austin Rivers
4
3%
Bradley Beal
10
6%
Other
2
1%
 
Total votes: 160

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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#761 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:31 pm

fredericklove wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Val isn't an athlete, says who????


He said he's an athlete but an AVERAGE one.

Dr Mufasa wrote:A lot of people compare him to Biedrins and Tyson Chandler who are elite athletes. Valanciunas is a passable but not dynamic NBA athlete. The fact that people insisted on calling JVal a plus NBA athlete unnerved me all of last year. He's as athletic as Varejao and Zaza


Dr Mufasa wrote:Like I said I think Valanciunas is a fine enough prospect. I'm not saying he's a bust...
he simply doesn't have dynamic athleticism, skill or bball IQ and without one of those things you're holding a business class ticket basically every time


Dr Mufasa wrote:It's entirely possible he ends up Krstic as well


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1157529


Not exactly "check-mate" here, buddy.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#762 » by fredericklove » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:31 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:Why do people listen to Mufasa's rants on Val when they've read him glorify Meyers Leonard? lol


And Henson too, 2nd pick material :wink:
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#763 » by ansoncarter » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 pm

DarkKnight wrote: Recent data showed that Barnes was creating 60+% of his own offense, which is very high.

think that stat treats an outside jumper off one rudimentary move, the same as driving through 3 people then throwing it off the backboard to yourself for a 360 tomohawk

can't really trust it. Unless I'm wrong, but think I'm right.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#764 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 pm

ash_k wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
ash_k wrote:I dont see him as scorer; I see him as complimentary player
Going 15ppg 5rpg 3apg 1BPG 1SPG

He has a tight handle and quick first step to make things happen if given the opportunity

Combine that with his strong body, his length and ridiculous athleticism .

He has all the tools required to be a Defensive stopper! and cover both wing positions


Just for the record, there's only a handful of wings in the league that can put up better numbers than 15/5/3. And being a defensive stopper? That's an energy player off the bench? I liked Williams coming out of college, too, but he had several flags.

-Couldn't hit free throws
-Blew a lot of lay-ups
-Ran point in Louiseville, but turned the ball over a lot and probably wouldn't be given the same chance in the NBA
-college senior, questionable upside
-a little eccentric, possible personality disorder
-late development curve, wasn't considered a high pick until his senior year
-didn't get to the line a lot
-never had a TS over 52

Anything remotely resemble Michael Kidd-Gilchrist there?


It is all about being given an opportunity to showcase your talent and be allowed to play through your mistake. ( again, ala Lin :wink: )

T-Will had(has) a rare combinations of talent and physical tools

Bayless would flourish too if given that "famous" opportunity.


I don't know what you're trying to say now. That TWill, if given the opportunity, would be an impact player in the league. Earlier you called him just an energy player off the bench as a negative comparison to Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. If this is your way of admitting that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will be an impact player in the league and potential all-star, it's a smooth out. Congrats.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#765 » by Undefeated » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:35 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Tanger wrote:Anyone else feel Barnes is a bit overrated?


He's a lot overrated

Being a good shooter doesn't make you a star on its own. I mean Korver and Budinger aren't stars

Best bet by far when drafting a perimeter player is creating your own shot at a dynamic level. Most perimeter players who don't create on ball ride in business class

Not to mention we need to think STAR, not role player. Until we get our next franchise player priority no 1 is getting one


Agree to disagree on Barnes being overrated.

You're right that being a good shooter doesn't make you a star, but Barnes isn't strictly a shooter though. What I see is a phenomenal prospect that can impact the game on both ends of the floor defensively and offensively. For the 28-minutes that Barnes is out there on the floor, I'm always seeing him working hard on the defensive end continuously dropping, bending his knees staying low in his defensive stance, shuffling his feet and arms out. He never takes a play off, and to always stay on his toes and low in his defensive stance? That takes a whole lot of energy which I'm truly amazed that Barnes is able to do for 28-minutes. Even though he didn't shut down Austin Rivers, taking the initiative to guard him who's much quicker than he is shows a lot of poise and leadership. It doesn't get any better than that when you're looking for a two-way wing.

Barnes is certainly a dynamic on-ball shot creator from mid-range. With how small the court is inside the arc at the college level along with the offense that coach Roy Williams runs which makes it even more packed, it just so happens that Barnes has to create most of his offense off jumpshots rather than penetration. Just last night, he put his ball-handling on display against C.J. Leslie by using a crossover and an inside-out dribble that completely put Leslie on ice skates where Barnes simply J the shot over him. That was one of Barnes' best move I've seen in a while, and he'd show it more if he was allowed to play on-ball more often. He definitely deserves a lot more credit for his handles. But the biggest difference between Barnes and Kyle Korver or Chase Budinger is their ability to score off the screen-and-roll as a ball-handler. Korver and Budinger don't have the ball-handling where they can be relied on to run the pick-and-roll and deny the screen for the jumpshot like Barnes does.

The NBA game is all about being able to execute the screen-and-roll, and that's one of Barnes' strength. And in a one-on-one situation, a select go-to-move for Barnes is fine like Joe Johnson. He doesn't need crazy street handles. Certainly hasn't helped Jamal Crawford or Tyreke Evans, has it? That jumpshot is going to open up his game so much because if the defense is routinely going under the screen like they have, Barnes will burn the defense with his sweet jumper. Go over the screen, Barnes has no problem putting the ball on the floor and exploding to the rim where he's an amazing finisher with the body control and touch for the window.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#766 » by fredericklove » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:37 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Val isn't an athlete, says who????


He said he's an athlete but an AVERAGE one.

Dr Mufasa wrote:A lot of people compare him to Biedrins and Tyson Chandler who are elite athletes. Valanciunas is a passable but not dynamic NBA athlete. The fact that people insisted on calling JVal a plus NBA athlete unnerved me all of last year. He's as athletic as Varejao and Zaza


Dr Mufasa wrote:Like I said I think Valanciunas is a fine enough prospect. I'm not saying he's a bust...
he simply doesn't have dynamic athleticism, skill or bball IQ and without one of those things you're holding a business class ticket basically every time


Dr Mufasa wrote:It's entirely possible he ends up Krstic as well


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1157529


Not exactly "check-mate" here, buddy.


Well my point is he glorifies dynamic athleticism. Guys like Leonard and Henson have an above-average athleticism with decent skills I admit that, but not to the point where their tools can translate to a top 3 picks worthy material. Lottery picks at best but top 3?
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#767 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:41 pm

^Got it. I'm stupid. :lol:
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#768 » by fredericklove » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:44 pm

ansoncarter wrote:
DarkKnight wrote: Recent data showed that Barnes was creating 60+% of his own offense, which is very high.

think that stat treats an outside jumper off one rudimentary move, the same as driving through 3 people then throwing it off the backboard to yourself for a 360 tomohawk

can't really trust it. Unless I'm wrong, but think I'm right.


I saw that stat data before, even if we throw out the stat data and watch every UNC games. Other than Marshall hitting Barnes for open 3 pointers, most of the time Barnes would get the ball from Marshall at the elbows, then he will initiate his own screen and roll with Henson/Z to create enough spaces to hit the jumper or drive to draw for contact, other than that, Barnes gets the ball at the wing from Marshall, then he will fake jab to the right then explode to the left and pulls up. These are sequences that he's done frequently. So basically, Marshall just gives the ball to Barnes and let Barnes create his own shots. These are clips you can see over and over again in a game.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#769 » by pkiskool » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:53 pm

We won't win the tank race to land Anthony Davis nor Barnes.
We are destined for Jeremy Lamb.
In that case, we draft him and do the following:

Bargs + Jose ($19 mil) to Knicks
for
Carmelo + Lin ($19 mil) to Raps

Raps line up:
Lin/Bayless
Lamb/DD
Melo/JJ
Ed/Amir
Val/Amir
+ spend FA money for 3rd pg, 3rd big man

Knicks line up:
Jose/Baron
Fields/Shump
JR/Novak
Amare/Bargs
Tyson/Bargs

Knicks form the best triplet tower ever assembled.
Win-win for everyone.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#770 » by ansoncarter » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:55 pm

^thanks GIF-tits I mean frederick

barnes sounds like the best fit, since BC is probably going to keep derozan around at sg. Think he'll even trade up for him if he has to

=why's nobody talking about marshall anyways. We kind of need a pg. (that's that kendal marshal guy right? he was rated pretty high out of highschool, higher than kyrie irving iirc)
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#771 » by Undefeated » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:56 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IiwTvkUdI[/youtube]

Barely any plays with Barnes spotting up. Almost all those plays Barnes is creating his own offense.
Man, Barnes is soooo smooth and deceptive changing angles on the screen-and-roll. :droop:
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#772 » by ash_k » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:56 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
I don't know what you're trying to say now. That TWill, if given the opportunity, would be an impact player in the league. Earlier you called him just an energy player off the bench as a negative comparison to Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. If this is your way of admitting that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will be an impact player in the league and potential all-star, it's a smooth out. Congrats.


We have been talking about skillset.

Nobody is talking about T-Will being an All- star, if we go back ...I talked about him being a contributor.

If you think that MKG will be an all-Star with his slashing game, well..
Do you see any range in his game?

For example, are you putting MKG in the same level as AI (Iguodola)?
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#773 » by dballislife » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:58 pm

for a near 7 foot centre, i would say jonas is a above avg nba athlete
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#774 » by Reignman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:01 pm

Undefeated wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IiwTvkUdI[/youtube]

Barely any plays with Barnes spotting up. Almost all those plays Barnes is creating his own offense.
Man, Barnes is soooo smooth and deceptive changing angles on the screen-and-roll. :droop:


I'm a big fan of his game and he's been near the top of my draft board for a long long time but I will reiterate one thing to everyone, that jumper is going to be a sniper rifle in the league, just watch.

You don't get to see many prospects coming out of college with a picture perfect jumper like that. His shot mechanics stay the same whether he's pulling up, off the catch and shoot or off the dribble off balance.

I'm not going to name names when it comes to the type of shot I think he has (because people love to nitpick) so I'll just say this, that jumper is going to be feared in the NBA.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#775 » by mapko81 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:02 pm

Val only as athletic as Pachulia? :cry: C'mon, he's the only hope we got!
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#776 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:04 pm

ash_k wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
I don't know what you're trying to say now. That TWill, if given the opportunity, would be an impact player in the league. Earlier you called him just an energy player off the bench as a negative comparison to Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. If this is your way of admitting that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will be an impact player in the league and potential all-star, it's a smooth out. Congrats.


We have been talking about skillset.

Nobody is talking about T-Will being an All- star, if we go back ...I talked about him being a contributor.

If you think that MKG will be an all-Star with his slashing game, well..
Do you see any range in his game?

For example, are you putting MKG in the same level as AI (Iguodola)?


Yes, I most definitely think he will be at the same level or higher than Andrea Iguodala. I wouldn't consider drafting him in the top 5 if I didn't. I also pointed out that the stats you used to describe T-Will are difficult to come by, and when you suggest "stopper" defense than that is pretty much an all-star or near an all-star. That is not just a contributor. Go look and see how many wings averaged 15/5/3 in the past few years. You'll see it's not just a run of the mill accomplishment.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#777 » by ansoncarter » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:05 pm

these are some of the best draft threads I can remember. Thank you to all posters giving out info, it's entertaining to read. Much better than "Andy Rautins seeking Lithuanian Citizenship"

(don't know which of you to trust though, there's more disagreement than usual. like gilchrist is either caron butler, or gerald wallace, or more explosive luol deng, or terrence williams. One or the other.)
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#778 » by fredericklove » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:17 pm

ansoncarter wrote:^thanks GIF-tits I mean frederick

barnes sounds like the best fit, since BC is probably going to keep derozan around at sg. Think he'll even trade up for him if he has to

=why's nobody talking about marshall anyways. We kind of need a pg. (that's that kendal marshal guy right? he was rated pretty high out of highschool, higher than kyrie irving iirc)


HEY! Respect her! She has a name. Its called Hayley!

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Marshall has superb court vision but very one dimensional tho, his poor defense and poor offensive skill are not sexy.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#779 » by ash_k » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Yes, I most definitely think he will be at the same level or higher than Andrea Iguodala. I wouldn't consider drafting him in the top 5 if I didn't. I also pointed out that the stats you used to describe T-Will are difficult to come by, and when you suggest "stopper" defense than that is pretty much an all-star or near an all-star. That is not just a contributor. Go look and see how many wings averaged 15/5/3 in the past few years. You'll see it's not just a run of the mill accomplishment.


You have to look how an athlete moves out there,

Can you see how awkward he is with the ball in his hands while he is dribbling?

The way he releases the ball when he shoots, can you honestly see him shift a player and J on top of a player at the next level beyond the College 3-point line? ( the NBA 3-pt seems way out of his range)

Has he shown the abitlity to play one-one and elevate/shoot? other than those cuts that UK does.

In the 6'6s with narrow shoulders forced to play as a SF ; someone that size should not be considered a starting SF at the next level at this point but "experts" keep talking about him as a SF

Again, how does he matchup versus the second class SF of the NBA on a nightly basis?
All much bigger and longer than he is (Caron Butler, Granger, Stephen Jackson, G-Wall, etc...)
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#780 » by nahom1319 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39 pm

can the guys trying to google her get a last name
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