Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[sunny]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IiwTvkUdI[/youtube]

Barely any plays with Barnes spotting up. Almost all those plays Barnes is creating his own offense.
Man, Barnes is soooo smooth and deceptive changing angles on the screen-and-roll.

I'm a big fan of his game and he's been near the top of my draft board for a long long time but I will reiterate one thing to everyone, that jumper is going to be a sniper rifle in the league, just watch.

You don't get to see many prospects coming out of college with a picture perfect jumper like that. His shot mechanics stay the same whether he's pulling up, off the catch and shoot or off the dribble off balance.

I'm not going to name names when it comes to the type of shot I think he has (because people love to nitpick) so I'll just say this, that jumper is going to be feared in the NBA.

im iffy on this. Barnes has a great shooting technique. But I view this as his best strength and something that isn't something that guarantees success in the nba.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yes, I most definitely think he will be at the same level or higher than Andrea Iguodala. I wouldn't consider drafting him in the top 5 if I didn't. I also pointed out that the stats you used to describe T-Will are difficult to come by, and when you suggest "stopper" defense than that is pretty much an all-star or near an all-star. That is not just a contributor. Go look and see how many wings averaged 15/5/3 in the past few years. You'll see it's not just a run of the mill accomplishment.

You have to look how an athlete moves out there,

Can you see how awkward he is with the ball in his hands while he is dribbling?

The way he releases the ball when he shoots, can you honestly see him shift a player and J on top of a player at the next level beyond the College 3-point line? ( the NBA 3-pt seems way out of his range)

Has he shown the abitlity to play one-one and elevate/shoot? other than those cuts that UK does.

In the 6'6s with narrow shoulders forced to play as a SF ; someone that size should not be considered a starting SF at the next level at this point but "experts" keep talking about him as a SF

Again, how does he matchup versus the second class SF of the NBA on a nightly basis?
All much bigger and longer than he is (Caron Butler, Granger, Stephen Jackson, G-Wall, etc...)

So now you've shifted the goalposts to offense, have you? You want to see his one-on-one ability, check out 1:05. Bad defense or good offense? Your call.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9mefHjfo30[/youtube]

[hops_88]

Barnes or MKG + Lamb or Rivers.

We need a second lottery pick. We can find our point guard later. But I think this draft is the best chance to rack up talent that we are severely lacking.

I know a lot of people arent comfortable playing 3 rookies. But who caresÉ its not like were very good right now anyways.

[ash_k]

Yes, I most definitely think he will be at the same level or higher than Andrea Iguodala. I wouldn't consider drafting him in the top 5 if I didn't. I also pointed out that the stats you used to describe T-Will are difficult to come by, and when you suggest "stopper" defense than that is pretty much an all-star or near an all-star. That is not just a contributor. Go look and see how many wings averaged 15/5/3 in the past few years. You'll see it's not just a run of the mill accomplishment.

You have to look how an athlete moves out there,

Can you see how awkward he is with the ball in his hands while he is dribbling?

The way he releases the ball when he shoots, can you honestly see him shift a player and J on top of a player at the next level beyond the College 3-point line? ( the NBA 3-pt seems way out of his range)

Has he shown the abitlity to play one-one and elevate/shoot? other than those cuts that UK does.

In the 6'6s with narrow shoulders forced to play as a SF ; someone that size should not be considered a starting SF at the next level at this point but "experts" keep talking about him as a SF

Again, how does he matchup versus the second class SF of the NBA on a nightly basis?
All much bigger and longer than he is (Caron Butler, Granger, Stephen Jackson, G-Wall, etc...)

So now you've shifted the goalposts to offense, have you? You want to see his one-on-one ability, check out 1:05. Bad defense or good offense? Your call.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9mefHjfo30[/youtube]

So you call that an impressive move? a spin in the paint..so you are sayin that s an NBA move that it will be able to do. Spin around the bigger and longer Danny Granger and then lay it up by avoiding HIbbert blocks with his size..

Defensively and offensively (Nobody is shifting here or there) just answer the question (if you can)
how does he match up versus the SECOND class SF of the NBA on a nightly basis?
All much bigger and longer than he is (Caron Butler, Granger, Stephen Jackson, G-Wall, etc...)

[Tough Tony D]

ash_k's arguments<------> Supporters of MKG arguments

[ash_k]

The problem peeps rely way too much on Draftexpress..DX now ranks him third and folks get overexcited

Because he s playing well against NCAA players.

Peeps on his board talking All-Star level; with the way he plays, he just doesnt have the measurements to be that effective at the next level

They keep talking about his energy, that is why teams need energy player; coming off the bench.

He will be coming of the bench.

Nobody can answer that matchup vs Second class SF question because they know he cannot matchup with those guys as a starter.. those guys are too big and more talented than he is.

He doesnt have the shooting and game to be a starting SG and too small to be starting SF at the next level...

Say no to MKG and yes to Barnes!

[ty123]

Kidd Gilchrist first step, ability to get to the rim & finish > Barnes shooting.

[Rapsfan07]

I think the hype around Gilchrist is getting a little bit out of hand. I think Barnes will be the better NBAer

[ash_k]

For example
Lamb is clearly a shooting guard at the next level and matches up with the SG due to his massive length and shooting ability..just fluidity as an athlete

Barnes is clearly a small Forward at the next level and matches up physically with his body and length

Everyone looking at MKG sees a SF.
He is way too small to perform as an effective starter at the next level

Stack him up on a nightly basis vs (Granger, Butler, Jackson, Hedo (yes), G-Walll, Prince, Pierce etc...) all those guys are way bigger and longer than he is (ok Prince is just way longer)

He doesnt match up!

[Pseudonym]

According to DX, MKG is 6' 7.5", with a 6-10 wingspan. What's the problem here?

[S.W.A.N]

For example
Lamb is clearly a shooting guard at the next level and matches up with the SG due to his massive length and shooting ability..just fluidity as an athlete

Barnes is clearly a small Forward at the next level and matches up physically with his body and length

Everyone looking at MKG sees a SF.
He is way too small to perform as an effective starter at the next level

Stack him up on a nightly basis vs (Granger, Butler, Jackson, Hedo (yes), G-Walll, Prince, Pierce etc...) all those guys are way bigger and longer than he is (ok Prince is just way longer)

He doesnt match up!

I would love to draft Barnes but anyone talking Kidd down is crazy. He is going to be a baller and an all-star.

I have them 2a and 2b on my draft wish list behind the eyebrow

[Undefeated]

Peeps on his board talking All-Star level; with the way he plays, he just doesnt have the measurements to be that effective at the next level

They keep talking about his energy, that is why teams need energy player; coming off the bench.

He will be coming of the bench.

Nobody can answer that matchup vs Second class SF question because they know he cannot matchup with those guys as a starter.. those guys are too big and more talented than he is.

He doesnt have the shooting and game to be a starting SG and too small to be starting SF at the next level...

Say no to MKG and yes to Barnes!

If MKG measures out standing less than 6'5" without shoes, then you might be onto something. But I doubt it. Andre Iguodala was listed at 6'5.75" without shoes in his predraft measurements which is considered below average as the average height measurement for a SF without shoes is 6'6.03". There are other physical attributes that Iggy made up for his lack in height with his elite athleticism, quickness, explosiveness, wingspan and reach which I believe MKG has too. Sometimes, your intensity and motor can help too like it has for KG. Both KG and MKG have that insane motor and intensity which propels them to be who they are. I mean, you don't see Iggy struggling to shut down the top end SFs despite the lack in height night in-night out.

Kidd-Gilchrist does need to get that jumper down, but that's one of the easier skill to develop. It's not like MKG is handicapped shooting the basketball. Minor tweaks like not bending his elbow outward or picking up and shooting with right, but releasing on the left are easily correctable with the reps in. It's not just his energy that makes him a good rebounder, but his rebounding instincts are off the charts always tracking down loose ball outside of his area. That takes some bball IQ. His ball-handling and court-vision is good too. He's certainly got some skills going for him.

[Dr Positivity]

Fredlove you keep saying I have Henson top 2-3. I don't. I have Henson 8-12 ish. What I said is he could go 2nd due to the history of defensive bigs in the draft + how obvious it is Drummond will fall from that spot. Det or Sac get 2nd and the idea of completing their frontcourt and immediate/safe play fits. NOH have a GM who wanted Kmart and Scola and have to impress Gordon, they probably want to win quickly and not bust too

[Homer Jay]

Is MKG different enough of a player to start alongside JJ? Probably not. I guess if JVal pans out, we can move JJ to the bench. But I still love JJ as a complimentary player to Bargs right now. Then of course the same argument can be made, is Lamb a different enough player from DD for both to play together? Again probably not. If Jose stays, I think we need a ball-dominant wing player to bust our offense open and into something less predictable.

I wonder if BC/Step are waiting to find out our draft position,then zeroing in on a player, before beginning to remodel this team. Of course, to add, are we going to change the team to fit the incoming player, or are we going to target a player to fit the team.

Probably BC's biggest off-season since '06.

[ty123]

Good Foul Bayless!!

[ash_k]

According to DX, MKG is 6' 7.5", with a 6-10 wingspan. What's the problem here?

Well,

Those second class SFs have over 7' Wingspan and have bigger bodies.

MKG doesnt jump over people

[SkywalkerAC]

and there are plenty of great small forwards with wingspans under 6'10, so what?

[Marlo Stanfield]

He's more caught up in measurements than what is actually done on the court. Go back and read his arguments on almost every topic. If the dude doesn't measure up, he's a bust in ash_k's eyes.

[S.W.A.N]

He's more caught up in measurements than what is actually done on the court. Go back and read his arguments on almost every topic. If the dude doesn't measure up, he's a bust in ash_k's eyes.

Please god don't let ash be Jim Kelly being incognito....

Kidd is way to good to overlook because he doesn't have freak length.

But lets be real here for one second. He has excellent size for a small forward and has an amazing motor, what more do you need?

[ash_k]

and there are plenty of great small forwards with wingspans under 6'10, so what?

Not your All-Star level ones as folks here are saying he will be one.


Watch how he plays: with his game if at least he could jump/over power player he'd have a chance but he cant do that.