Official Trade Thread XVIII: 1/20/12 - 5/14/12

[Benjammin]

McGee, Blatche, Turiaf to HOU for Dalembert, Scola.

Why for HOU- free up cap room and get to build around younger nucleus.

Why for WIZ- We get immediate upgrade at C and PF position and change the culture with established vets who know how to play the low post on both ends...Keep in mind that a large part of HOU's success this year, they are 20-14 and just beat Philly, is the solid play of both...They would serve as nice mix for next few years (still only 30 and 31) and good bridge to our young talent next year and get us into playoffs. Gives us great flexibility come draft time b/c the young big we draft will be coming in and learning from established vets.

We still have cap room after Lewis is amnestied to go strong after Gordon and Batum and with our #1 draft pick (Davis, Sullinger, Robinson), we have the makings of a playoff team next year and beyond:

C-Dalember/Seraphin
PF-Scola, (Davis/Sully, Robinson), Booker
SF-Batum/Singleton, Veseley
SG-Gordon/Crawford
PG-Wall/Mack

IMO, this lineup is better than HOU's current lineup and they are now 20-14, 6th in West.

I would trade Young for draft pick and package 2 of (Vesely/Singelton/Booker) for mid 1st and possibly pick up one of the Lambs. If we do this, we not only have great starting lineup but we've got great depth.

I understand the sentiment and thought behind it. I understand the frustration with McGee. But I'd rather roll the dice with McGee and another coach before frankly dropping the potential ceiling for this team significantly. I understand how tired people are of losing and just want a competitive team. But this deal isn't enough for me to trade McGee. I also am quite wary of signing Gordon to a huge contract and counting on him to be healthy and a difference maker. All things being equal, I think Harden is a superior player, although he's not a RFA until 2013 and I would think OKC would do everything in their power to keep him.

I do like Batum a lot but Paul Allen has crazy money and I don't see them letting Batum go for nothing.

[LyricalRico]

Also Leonsis said that getting free agents rarely works out (I assume he meant super star vs role player.). He pointed to a couple of teams that built through the draft.

Yeah, Ted's starting to get on my nerves with this "build through the draft stuff". I mean, look at the NBA champs in the post-Jordan era. Only the Spurs did it with all of their primary players being draft picks, and even then it was only with one lottery pick. They lucked out and got Duncan when Robinson was injured, but Parker was a late first and Manu was a second rounder they took a flier on. Everbody else did it mostly with trades and FAs.

Lakers (5 titles) - traded for Kobe's rights, and signed Shaq as a free agent, also traded for Gasol/Odom
Pistons (1 title) - only starter they drafted was Prince, they traded for or signed Rip/Chauncey/Ben/Sheed
Heat (1 title) - drafted Wade in the lottery, traded for Shaq
Celtics 1 (title) - drafted Pierce in the lottery, traded for Allen/Garnett
Mavs (1 title) - traded for Dirk's rights, traded for Kidd/Terry/Chandler, signed Marion

And if look further at Boston and Dallas, the existing star the build around went years without a title and it wasn't until they built around that person through (you guessed it) trades and free agency that they got over the top.

Even the teams that got close but didn't win had to do the same things. Phoenix broke the bank for Nash. Orlando signed Turkgolu and overpaid to acquire Lewis. Even Memphis traded for a guy in Randolph that almost everyone agreed was overpaid. OKC and Chicago are really the only teams that became contenders by drafting most of their core (and even they traded for Perkins and signed Boozer, respectively).

But most of those winners and contenders also had another thing in common - they are/were tax payers. I wonder if "build through the draft" isn't code for "not spending money". And even though a team like OKC's books look good now, they won't for long. Same with Chicago. At some point, you have to spend money - either on your own players or somebody else's. That's how it works in the NBA, and Ted needs to stop running from that.

[llcc25]

McGee, Blatche, Turiaf to HOU for Dalembert, Scola.

I understand the sentiment and thought behind it. I understand the frustration with McGee. But I'd rather roll the dice with McGee and another coach before frankly dropping the potential ceiling for this team significantly. I understand how tired people are of losing and just want a competitive team. But this deal isn't enough for me to trade McGee. I also am quite wary of signing Gordon to a huge contract and counting on him to be healthy and a difference maker. All things being equal, I think Harden is a superior player, although he's not a RFA until 2013 and I would think OKC would do everything in their power to keep him.

I do like Batum a lot but Paul Allen has crazy money and I don't see them letting Batum go for nothing.

Rolling the dice with McGee and another coach is like the definition of Insanity (i.e., doing same thing and expecting different results). This is his 4th year. He has yet to learn how to play defense, box out, pick and roll, and constantly makes boneheaded plays. And how does that proposed team drop our potential ceiling significantly? I would argue that pairing our #1 pick this summer with McGee is asking for trouble next year and lowers the ceiling moreso than my proposed alternatvie. We need established vets who have proven they know how to play both ends to play alongside the young rookie we draft this summer. Especially at the PF/C position this year where we've been beaten all year, both Dalembert and Scola have held their own and led their team to a 20-14 record. Add in Wall and Gordon/Batum with our #1 pick and that is a solid playoff team in East next year. And if Wall takes that leap to Rose level with this better supporting cast, i can see us top 4 followign year. What higher potential are you talking about with MCcGee? lol... IF I had my choice would I like to have Hibbert and Gasol if that were a viable option? absolutely...but i'm tryin to be realistic..

and for the record, i'd only go hard after gordon if he checked out ok 100%. i'm ok with getting a stop gap SG or trading for another mid 1st to possilby land one of the lambs...

[verbal8]

One deal that could make a lot of sense for both teams would be Nick Young for Anthony Morrow.

The Wizards do give up the better player, but Morrow is signed for a reasonable deal next year. It might make the most sense if a contender with a TPE ends up with Young in a 3 way trade.

[LyricalRico]

Rolling the dice with McGee and another coach is like the definition of Insanity (i.e., doing same thing and expecting different results). This is his 4th year. He has yet to learn how to play defense, box out, pick and roll, and constantly makes boneheaded plays. And how does that proposed team drop our potential ceiling significantly? I would argue that pairing our #1 pick this summer with McGee is asking for trouble next year and lowers the ceiling moreso than my proposed alternatvie. We need established vets who have proven they know how to play both ends to play alongside the young rookie we draft this summer.

[Benjammin]

McGee, Blatche, Turiaf to HOU for Dalembert, Scola.

I understand the sentiment and thought behind it. I understand the frustration with McGee. But I'd rather roll the dice with McGee and another coach before frankly dropping the potential ceiling for this team significantly. I understand how tired people are of losing and just want a competitive team. But this deal isn't enough for me to trade McGee. I also am quite wary of signing Gordon to a huge contract and counting on him to be healthy and a difference maker. All things being equal, I think Harden is a superior player, although he's not a RFA until 2013 and I would think OKC would do everything in their power to keep him.

I do like Batum a lot but Paul Allen has crazy money and I don't see them letting Batum go for nothing.

Rolling the dice with McGee and another coach is like the definition of Insanity (i.e., doing same thing and expecting different results). This is his 4th year. He has yet to learn how to play defense, box out, pick and roll, and constantly makes boneheaded plays. And how does that proposed team drop our potential ceiling significantly? I would argue that pairing our #1 pick this summer with McGee is asking for trouble next year and lowers the ceiling moreso than my proposed alternatvie. We need established vets who have proven they know how to play both ends to play alongside the young rookie we draft this summer. Especially at the PF/C position this year where we've been beaten all year, both Dalembert and Scola have held their own and led their team to a 20-14 record. Add in Wall and Gordon/Batum with our #1 pick and that is a solid playoff team in East next year. And if Wall takes that leap to Rose level with this better supporting cast, i can see us top 4 followign year. What higher potential are you talking about with MCcGee? lol... IF I had my choice would I like to have Hibbert and Gasol if that were a viable option? absolutely...but i'm tryin to be realistic..

and for the record, i'd only go hard after gordon if he checked out ok 100%. i'm ok with getting a stop gap SG or trading for another mid 1st to possilby land one of the lambs...

I don't disagree with you that the chances of McGee putting it all together isn't that high but Dalembert and Scola doesn't cut it for me. Dalembert is having a good season but I don't see him as being that great. Scola is not a strong rebounder and while his contract isn't huge I don't know that he's even worth his deal and has several years remaining on it. I think Kyle Lowry and Kevin Martin are bigger reasons for Houston's relative success although I do submit that Scola and Dalembert have contributed as well. As for Gordon, you're going to assume that our "crack" medical staff is going to adequately "assess" Gordon. Batum is likely going nowhere.

[WizarDynasty]

i would definitely go after wilson chandler. I would give up singleton easily to get chandler.

[queridiculo]

I get where you're coming with respect to McGee and I doubt you'll find many people that aren't frustrated about his seeming lack of progress.

It's also important to keep things in perspective though. He's a 4 year player that played little to no organized basketball and given his draft position he's just about where you'd expect him to be at this point in his career.

Do I think he could, or better yet, SHOULD be further along given his tools? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that I'm giving up hope that he may just eventually grow into the player he can be.

The Wizards can ill afford to add McGee to the long list of bigs turned All-Stars with other franchises.

Does that mean that I want the Wizards to work out a longterm deal no matter what? Absolutely not, but we'd be foolish to a) not at least make an offer that's financially sound or b) sign him to a one year deal.

[WizarDynasty]

McGee, Blatche, Turiaf to HOU for Dalembert, Scola.

I understand the sentiment and thought behind it. I understand the frustration with McGee. But I'd rather roll the dice with McGee and another coach before frankly dropping the potential ceiling for this team significantly. I understand how tired people are of losing and just want a competitive team. But this deal isn't enough for me to trade McGee. I also am quite wary of signing Gordon to a huge contract and counting on him to be healthy and a difference maker. All things being equal, I think Harden is a superior player, although he's not a RFA until 2013 and I would think OKC would do everything in their power to keep him.

I do like Batum a lot but Paul Allen has crazy money and I don't see them letting Batum go for nothing.

Rolling the dice with McGee and another coach is like the definition of Insanity (i.e., doing same thing and expecting different results). This is his 4th year. He has yet to learn how to play defense, box out, pick and roll, and constantly makes boneheaded plays. And how does that proposed team drop our potential ceiling significantly? I would argue that pairing our #1 pick this summer with McGee is asking for trouble next year and lowers the ceiling moreso than my proposed alternatvie. We need established vets who have proven they know how to play both ends to play alongside the young rookie we draft this summer. Especially at the PF/C position this year where we've been beaten all year, both Dalembert and Scola have held their own and led their team to a 20-14 record. Add in Wall and Gordon/Batum with our #1 pick and that is a solid playoff team in East next year. And if Wall takes that leap to Rose level with this better supporting cast, i can see us top 4 followign year. What higher potential are you talking about with MCcGee? lol... IF I had my choice would I like to have Hibbert and Gasol if that were a viable option? absolutely...but i'm tryin to be realistic..

and for the record, i'd only go hard after gordon if he checked out ok 100%. i'm ok with getting a stop gap SG or trading for another mid 1st to possilby land one of the lambs...

the formula is simple, three allstars in their prime makes you a contender. We have wall coming into his own. McGee I would say is 35 percent chance if he adds on about 25 more pounds of muscle while improving his endurance. There is absolutely no one else on this roster with the potential to becoming even close to allstar status. We need two more allstars--players that still have 4 or 5 year left in their prime, not projects that will maybe get there after 5 years of training.

Basically look at the last 7 to 8 years of the draft lottery and if that players was drafted in the top 4 picks, give a 10 plus million contract, even if its on a one year deal so that his team won't match. Washington number one strategy should be to offer max 1 year deals to restricted free agents that have all star potential and while negotiating, tell them that they will sign them to an even better deal the next year when they become unrestricted free agents.

[jivelikenice]

I think you have to entertain trading McGee. While he has progressed as a player we are in a precarious position given that we're not reeady to commit big dollars to him long-term yet but a team could come in and offer him 10-12 MM and really put us in a bind. I like Javale and think he does work hard, but the mental mistakes to me are alarming. The two possessions versus Phoenix that started the Suns run and the awful goaltending last night were just beyond comprehension and only a 2-3 players in the league would show that little self awareness on the court.

To me this is the problem with tanking. The whole idea where people were hoping we'd be awful as a means to get better has played out but people ignored the obvious. If we are this bad, that means our young players have not matured or progressed enough and that is more damaging in the long-term for this franchise. Is getting pick 3 instead of pick 9 really worth all the negative atmosphere, bad habits, and losing culture that Wall, McGee, Seraphin, Booker, Crawford, Young, Singleton, & Vesely have seen? No. But its too late now. This FO needs to figure out who can overcome this culture (imo Wall, Crawford, Vesely, Booker, Seraphin) and who is a victim to it (McGee, Young, Dray) and find a way to move the parts that aren't long-term fits.

In McGee's case, he has value. He shouldn't be included in a salary dump especially with the amnesty and Rashard's buyout available to us.

Andray- Trade him for whoever you can get as long as the contract isn't worse. Otherwise amesty him

Young- I advocated keeping him as a shooter to help this team learn to play with a shooter but his play has been terrible. With Brooks emerging in NJ I'd really look into what it would take to get him for Nick if he's open to a trade there.

[llcc25]

I don't disagree with you that the chances of McGee putting it all together isn't that high but Dalembert and Scola doesn't cut it for me. Dalembert is having a good season but I don't see him as being that great. Scola is not a strong rebounder and while his contract isn't huge I don't know that he's even worth his deal and has several years remaining on it. I think Kyle Lowry and Kevin Martin are bigger reasons for Houston's relative success although I do submit that Scola and Dalembert have contributed as well. As for Gordon, you're going to assume that our "crack" medical staff is going to adequately "assess" Gordon. Batum is likely going nowhere.

Simply put, Dalembert is an upgrade over McGee and only signed for one more year at player option. And yes, I understand that he is not great but right now, I'll take solid and serviceable for our Center position over what McGee brings. And there is no indication in McGee's game right now that gives me any confidence he can provide this next year. And Scola, yes his rebounds dipped this year, but he brings it on both ends each game. He's got an arrary of low post moves which we or more accurately (Vesely/Blatche/Booker) witnessed first hand this year. He can shoot the mid range, play the pick and roll and most importantly, play D. And regarding his contract for 3 more years, it's not a cap killer, and it does come off books just about the time our rookie PF from this summer (DAvis, Sulligner,Robinson) are ready to be extended. More importantly though, I think he can serve as a great mentor to our draft pick this summer in bringin our young PF stud along and teaching him how the PF position is played...
But honestly though, i just threw this out there b/c I'm tired of watching our pathetic team, but I can't see HOU's GM taking our trash McGee/Blatche for Dalembert/Scola so this is all moot.

[LyricalRico]

To me this is the problem with tanking. The whole idea where people were hoping we'd be awful as a menas to get better has played out but people ignored the obvious. If we are this bad, that menas are young players have not matured or progressed enough and that it more damaging in the long-term for this franchise. Is getting pick 3 instead of pick 9 really worth all the negative atmosphere, bad habits, and losing culture that Wall, McGee, Seraphin, Booker, Crawford, Young, Singleton, & Vesely have seen? No. But its too late now. This FO needs to figure out who can overcome this culture (imo Wall, Crawford, Vesely, Booker, Seraphin) and who is a victim to it (McGee, Young, Dray) and find a way to move the parts that aren't long-term fits.

HOF post, jive. Couldn't have said it better.

[WizarDynasty]

OUtisde of wall, the only player that would be a universal starter in this league is mcgee after he adds another twenty pounds of muscle his a starter on 90 percent of all teams.

We have no other players on this roster that have the potential to be consistent nba starters each night regardless of matchup.

Wall = starter

McGee==starter with 20 lbs of muscle one more season.

Booker= 6th man player...Blatche a sixth man if he magically regained his quickness.

everyone else on this roster would be an 8th man or worst on a playoff team.

Ernie has done a poor job of getting this team a legitimate nba starter for 3/5 position.

The only credit i give him is with McGee but it will take a total of five years for his project to turn into a starter. None of his other projects projects to be a consistent nba starter on a playoff team....even if you project out years in advance from todays date.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee, Blatche, Turiaf to HOU for Dalembert, Scola.

I understand the sentiment and thought behind it. I understand the frustration with McGee. But I'd rather roll the dice with McGee and another coach before frankly dropping the potential ceiling for this team significantly. I understand how tired people are of losing and just want a competitive team. But this deal isn't enough for me to trade McGee. I also am quite wary of signing Gordon to a huge contract and counting on him to be healthy and a difference maker. All things being equal, I think Harden is a superior player, although he's not a RFA until 2013 and I would think OKC would do everything in their power to keep him.

I do like Batum a lot but Paul Allen has crazy money and I don't see them letting Batum go for nothing.

Rolling the dice with McGee and another coach is like the definition of Insanity (i.e., doing same thing and expecting different results). This is his 4th year. He has yet to learn how to play defense, box out, pick and roll, and constantly makes boneheaded plays. And how does that proposed team drop our potential ceiling significantly? I would argue that pairing our #1 pick this summer with McGee is asking for trouble next year and lowers the ceiling moreso than my proposed alternatvie. We need established vets who have proven they know how to play both ends to play alongside the young rookie we draft this summer. Especially at the PF/C position this year where we've been beaten all year, both Dalembert and Scola have held their own and led their team to a 20-14 record. Add in Wall and Gordon/Batum with our #1 pick and that is a solid playoff team in East next year. And if Wall takes that leap to Rose level with this better supporting cast, i can see us top 4 followign year. What higher potential are you talking about with MCcGee? lol... IF I had my choice would I like to have Hibbert and Gasol if that were a viable option? absolutely...but i'm tryin to be realistic..

and for the record, i'd only go hard after gordon if he checked out ok 100%. i'm ok with getting a stop gap SG or trading for another mid 1st to possilby land one of the lambs...

While that is true, he has yet to play with a good NBA PF and with a SG or a SF who will feed the post and also play exceptional defense.

Add either Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, or perhaps Jared Sullinger to the mix and their competitiveness and competence would make up for a lot of McGee missteps. McGee is playing on island defensively, for the most part. Nobody even crashes the boards if he dares to take a shot and miss.

I think another coach can work with him, and another coach would be smart enough to figure out Seraphin and McGee should be on the court together at times.

[Dat2U]

Simply put, Dalembert is an upgrade over McGee and only signed for one more year at player option. And yes, I understand that he is not great but right now, I'll take solid and serviceable for our Center position over what McGee brings. And there is no indication in McGee's game right now that gives me any confidence he can provide this next year. And Scola, yes his rebounds dipped this year, but he brings it on both ends each game. He's got an arrary of low post moves which we or more accurately (Vesely/Blatche/Booker) witnessed first hand this year. He can shoot the mid range, play the pick and roll and most importantly, play D. And regarding his contract for 3 more years, it's not a cap killer, and it does come off books just about the time our rookie PF from this summer (DAvis, Sulligner,Robinson) are ready to be extended. More importantly though, I think he can serve as a great mentor to our draft pick this summer in bringin our young PF stud along and teaching him how the PF position is played...
But honestly though, i just threw this out there b/c I'm tired of watching our pathetic team, but I can't see HOU's GM taking our trash McGee/Blatche for Dalembert/Scola so this is all moot.

It's a panic reaction. I certainly understand the frustration with McGee but the cupboard is already bare. Stripping away a young, albeit sloooowwwly improving center and leaving Wall as the only young player of note just doesn't sound like a plan. It sounds like a knee jerk reaction. Dalembert & Scola aren't long term options. They aren't even top line veterans. Scola will be 32 by years end and Dalembert will be 31. It's a short term fix when we need a long term solution. Adding vets into the mix next year will be important IMO, but not at the expense of McGee. I'd rather surround McGee with some quality vets to provide accountability and direction.

I'm not against trading McGee, but I'm not against keeping him either. I really do wonder how he'd do in a different environment, surrounded by veterans who are serious minded and focused on winning.

McGee's talented enough that I'd prefer to change the culture first before totally giving up on him.

[jivelikenice]

I think McGee should be traded....but in no way would I do it for a 30 yr old Sam Dalembert. If he's traded it must be for a younger player in a similar contract situation or a younger player who is blocked for pt. Trading for a 30-yr old C who will not want to be a part of this bad of a team is pointless.

[LyricalRico]

^ Well, the scenario isn't just McGee for Dalembert. We're also swapping a useless Blatche for an 18/9 guy in Scola. Heck, I'm betting that HOU is the one that's saying "no" in this situation.

[TGW]

I think McGee should be traded....but in no way would I do it for a 30 yr old Sam Dalembert. If he's traded it must be for a younger player in a similar contract situation or a younger player who is blocked for pt. Trading for a 30-yr old C who will not want to be a part of this bad of a team is pointless.

This.

That trade is terrible. Seems like something Wes Unseld would have done.

[NW]

There's talk the Warriors are targeting McGee with their cap room (around 10-11 mil). Marc Spears of Yahoo said he would love to be in California. Any interest in a deal? Some DC Wiz blogger named Mike Prada mentioned some deal with Dorell Wright and Ekpe Udoh fwiw.

[Benjammin]

There's talk the Warriors are targeting McGee with their cap room (around 10-11 mil). Marc Spears of Yahoo said he would love to be in California. Any interest in a deal? Some DC Wiz blogger named Mike Prada mentioned some deal with Dorell Wright and Ekpe Udoh fwiw.

Nope, non-starter for this Wiz fan.