2012 NBA Draft - Part II

[DCZards]

Dat, I'll admit to not knowing the games of several of the guys in Tiers 3 & 4, but I find it hard to believe that Austin Rivers is a Tier 4 player. Given his size, strength, and pedigree---and the fact that he'll probably play that increasingly important PG position---I wouldn't be surprised to see Rivers in the lottery.

[Dat2U]

6'9" is too short if you can't jump, which is apparently his problem. 6'9" with Booker's agility and jumping ability is, well, Blake Griffin.

I won't kick Sullinger out of bed. He might be a good fit next to McGee.

Height doesn't matter. The standing reach for bigs is a far more important measurement. Anything under 8'10 is going to make it tough for him. Ideally I'd love to see a PF measure 9'0 or above.

[Dat2U]

Dat, I'll admit to not knowing the games of several of the guys in Tiers 3 & 4, but I find it hard to believe that Austin Rivers is a Tier 4 player. Given his size, strength, and pedigree---and the fact that he'll probably play that increasingly important PG position---I wouldn't be surprised to see Rivers in the lottery.

That's the problem. He's not a PG. Not in any sense of the word. He can create shots for himself, but you rarely see him drive & kick or drive and dump off. He can get it for himself but doesn't really know how to create for others.

I think he's an NBA player. But he looks like a short SG to me. And a ball dominate one at that. And outside of a few bright moments, he really hasn't set the world on fire this year.

He definitely needs to come back for his soph season. I'd love to see him show some combo guard skills even if he's never a true point.

[Severn Hoos]

In the "Exception that Proves the Rule" category, Blake Griffin's standing reach was measured at 8'9" and his wingspan was 6'11.25"

Sullinger's measurements have been all over the map, but the most recent has him at 6'10 in shoes, 7'1" wingspan. I'll wait until the official measurements before I put much stock in those, however.

FYI, Robinson also reportedly was 6'10 & 7'1 wingspan.

[hands11]

This team doesnt just need talent, it needs a mass infusion of maturity.

Who they get in FA or via trade is going to be a bigger impact then a draft pick. I don't see this team growing ala OKC. First thing this team need is a core of product vets to go with Wall. Then the younger players that have something to offer will have something to plug into.

Look around the league at the best teams. They are not a bunch of kids. OKC is the lone exception and it is going to cost them to try to keep it together. And we are a long way from replicating what they did.

And if it comes to Barnes or Beal, I want Beal. I just have a really good feeling about that kid.

[queridiculo]

This debate about height sort of reminded me about Elton Brand's rumored/real/perceived height leading up to the draft and while digging up some info I stumbled upon this excellent piece on draftexpress.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/A-H ... ents-2912/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEi-Wm0OFII

[WizarDynasty]

Brand had a standing reach of 9'2 which is pretty insane puts him the 90 percentile for standing reach even a center.
I am pretty sure sullinger had a mediocre standing reach of 8'10 just like Singleton and Booker and this is confirmed by the fact that he doesn't block any shots in college.

[DCZards]

That's the problem. He's not a PG. Not in any sense of the word. He can create shots for himself, but you rarely see him drive & kick or drive and dump off. He can get it for himself but doesn't really know how to create for others.

I think he's an NBA player. But he looks like a short SG to me. And a ball dominate one at that. And outside of a few bright moments, he really hasn't set the world on fire this year.

He definitely needs to come back for his soph season. I'd love to see him show some combo guard skills even if he's never a true point.

Agree that Rivers hasn't shown many PG skills...but he really hasn't been asked to. I'm thinking Rivers is a lot like Westbrook who really didn't become a PG until after he left UCLA. I also expect Rivers' body and physicality to turn out to be a lot like Westbrook's.

[Dat2U]

DCZards, I don't think Rivers is in Westbrook's league in terms of physique or physical tools. Westbrook was and is an electric athlete with an incredibly explosive first step. Rivers is a solid athlete but he uses more skill and guile than athleticism to beat opponents off the dribble. And even in Westbrook's only season, he showed more combo guard skills than Rivers. Rivers just really comes up short on the passing instincts in my opinion. To me, he's got a serious case of tunnel vision. I have to see him show more of willingness to set others up before I can even call him a combo guard. He's a pure 2 to me right now.

[7-Day Dray]

DCZards, I don't think Rivers is in Westbrook's league in terms of physique or physical tools. Westbrook was and is an electric athlete with an incredibly explosive first step. Rivers is a solid athlete but he uses more skill and guile than athleticism to beat opponents off the dribble. And even in Westbrook's only season, he showed more combo guard skills than Rivers. Rivers just really comes up short on the passing instincts in my opinion. To me, he's got a serious case of tunnel vision. I have to see him show more of willingness to set others up before I can even call him a combo guard. He's a pure 2 to me right now.

Rivers has a crazy 1st step. It's one of the quickest I've ever seen. Yeah, he's not as vertically explosive as a guy like Westbrook, but he's no slouch, and he'll have no problem actually getting to the rim at the next level.

[theboomking]

Agree that Rivers hasn't shown many PG skills...but he really hasn't been asked to. I'm thinking Rivers is a lot like Westbrook who really didn't become a PG until after he left UCLA. I also expect Rivers' body and physicality to turn out to be a lot like Westbrook's.

I love Rivers' first step and ability to get his shot. He is however, a chucker. Even in his good games, he is a ball stopper. I don't think I'd touch him.

I really don't think Beal is coming out this year. He is probably a top 10 or twelve player this year, but his play has been a disappointment. As mature a kid as Beal appears to be, I can really see him staying a year, improving, and potentially going top 5.

I don't mind MKG over Barnes, or the other way around. Barnes is going to be the best volume scorer in the draft, but also is a very good defender, a hard worker, and a high basketball IQ player. I know this has already been discussed, but I don't see why people question Barnes' mentality. He has played his best in big games, was great in the ACC and NCAA tournament last year, and has multiple game winners to his name.

MKG on the other hand, is a special athlete, an awesome rebounder at the 3, looks like Wall at times pushing the ball in transition, is an underrated passer, has a good handle and penetrates well, and is still incredibly young. If you want to win games however, if you draft MKG to play with Wall, then you NEED shooters at SG and PF, and I would really be in favor of signing Ryan Anderson in 2012.

Speaking of MKG, the idea of trying to sign away Batum from Portland. I've been looking at Batum's strengths, stats, and videos and trying to decide if MKG would be likely to give us much more than Batum. I'm not sure. MKG is definitely a better rebounder and has the better handle. Both are great defenders and athletes. Batum is definitely the better perimeter shooter. Batum turned 23 only 3 months ago, and is averaging almost 14ppg in in 28 minutes on .423 shooting from 3Pt range, with a PER of 19.67. I'm not sure how confident I am that MKG will be better than Batum. What do you guys think about the comparison?

If you could sign a high level player, and draft another, for our Wizards, would you rather take MKG/Ryan Anderson, Thomas Robinson/Batum, or Barnes/Ryan Anderson?

[DCZards]

DCZards, I don't think Rivers is in Westbrook's league in terms of physique or physical tools. Westbrook was and is an electric athlete with an incredibly explosive first step. Rivers is a solid athlete but he uses more skill and guile than athleticism to beat opponents off the dribble. And even in Westbrook's only season, he showed more combo guard skills than Rivers. Rivers just really comes up short on the passing instincts in my opinion. To me, he's got a serious case of tunnel vision. I have to see him show more of willingness to set others up before I can even call him a combo guard. He's a pure 2 to me right now.

Rivers may never be quite as physical as Westbrook but I think you're going to be surprised at his size and strength in 3-4 years. Take a look at how broad his shoulders already are. Btw, Westbrook was at ucla for not one but two seasons.

I've seen rivers make some pretty instinctive passes and I would expect him to have less of a tunnel vision as he matures.

[Liverbird]

If you could sign a high level player, and draft another, for our Wizards, would you rather take MKG/Ryan Anderson, Thomas Robinson/Batum, or Barnes/Ryan Anderson?

I take Batum/Robinson and run. This would be my ideal scenario this offseason. I wouldn't mind it terribly if Anthony Davis were available instead of Robinson either

[dangermouse]

Batum/Robinson all day.

Batum/Davis would be a wet dream.

[Knighthonor]

Why do people here keep wanting to waste a high draft pick to replace McGee, one of the few good assists to the team.

I would replace
Nick, craw, singleton vesly. They need shooters.

What are more heavy Dunkers going to do for a team like the wizards?
Look at the impact vesly had. Which is little at all. Why? Cause he can't shoot...

I don't understand why people don't see this as a major issue.

When the wizards were a playoff team,
They had at least 3 starters that could shoot pass the 3. And they had an awesome bench which they traded all of them away....

Now, the current wizards have no shooters pass the 3!

[nate33]

Why do people here keep wanting to waste a high draft pick to replace McGee, one of the few good assists to the team.

Who wants to replace McGee? I don't see anybody advocating that we draft Drummond.

If you are saying that Davis projects to be a center, you may have a point, but I don't think it's much of an issue. Davis is too thin to play center right now so he'll start as a PF. As he gets bigger, he'll play PF and also handle backup C duties. It'll probably be at least 3 or so years until Davis reaches the point where he's better at C than PF. At that point, we can try and trade McGee or we just let him walk when his contract is up. (The contract will be for 4 years).

The bottom line is that when you have the opportunity to draft a talent like Davis, you don't worry about how he fits alongside a clown like McGee.

[no D in Hibachi]

I love this time of year...high hopes for the Redskins and Wizards draft. I have visions of RGIII and Davis/Thomas wearing my teams colors. The trouble is, reality sets in during the spring and we'll probably end up with an LSU d-back (which was a horrible disaster last time, see Laron Landry), and Perry Jones. Ugh, why are Washington sports teams so cursed?!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

no D, I'm thinking Payton Manning and Perry Jones III for the Skins and Wizards, respectively.

One is old with a history of injury problems. Snyder loves that kind of player. Shanahan loves a certain kind of quarterback--not RG III. Read into that whatever you like--I just cannot see the Skins getting Griffin.

As for the Wizards, until Ted Leonsis cuts Ernie Grunfeld loose, I have no faith in this draft. If they pick Barnes, the kid will be soft. Whoever they pick, it won't be who I want them to pick. Never is. They have a knack for picking the very guys I do not like. We knew about Young's lack of mental aptitude before he was drafted. There were huge holes in McGee's defense then and now, as well as his aptitude or lack thereof. We knew Singleton and moreso Vesely couldn't shoot a lick. Ves was a sub-50% FT shooter IIRC. We also knew Vesely was a SF, but the Wizards now want to play him at PF or C.

I'm just getting older and cynical. Sorry. You be happy, no D! I like your enthusiasm. I guess eventually, they will get things right both the Skins and the Wizards. I like the Redskins chances next season if they get a decent QB. Washington needs Pritchard with Joerger--THEN I will be happy.

[WizarDynasty]

Andre Drummond is definitely a starting powerforward major upgrade over Blatche. His offensive powerforward skills are light years ahead of Blatche and he has the size, ability to create off the dribble, and offensive awareness to compliment McGee. He has the body type that we all wished Blatche had and he can actually dunk instead of attempting 100 reverse layups that get blocked.
Sure he will have some mental growth pains but we haven't had a powerforward with starting potential in 10 years since we last had webber and rasheed wallace. No more powerforward with small hands either.
Thomas at 6'8 with narrow shoulders doesn't look like much of an upgrade over booker to me as his longterm potential means
I like Booker but he is forever a 6th man against undersized powerforwards, not a starter on a playoff team. Same with Blatche.
Drummond over Davis for me because Davis is going to take at 3 to 4 years to bulk up and guard the powerforward position. He will get abused in the post each night for next 4 years but ge. We are finally starting to see buik on mcgee and it has taken 4 years.
I would also like to see us getting another top 13 pick and grab terrence jones. He is also a starter in the nba longterm. Picking up two starting prospects in this draft would be huge considering we had the same two first round picks last years and drafted 7th and 8th roster spot level players. the problem is that EG always lets this dumb team go on a 5 game winning streak at the end of the season and drop us out of the running to get a starter. HOw many times has this happened?
Why at the very end of teh season when nothing matters and teams stop playing that the dumb wizards decide to try to win games even though none of the players on the roster fosters no trade value on the open market.
If we are eliminated from the playoffs, its managements job to ensure that we get a starting caliber player next season, and you don't let dumb players ruin the future improvement of the franchise.

[dobrojim]

If you could sign a high level player, and draft another, for our Wizards, would you rather take MKG/Ryan Anderson, Thomas Robinson/Batum, or Barnes/Ryan Anderson?

I take Batum/Robinson and run. This would be my ideal scenario this offseason. I wouldn't mind it terribly if Anthony Davis were available instead of Robinson either

There are other attractive possibilities as well, ones that don't require that we
win the lotto.

How good would an offseason of MKG and Ryan Anderson be?
Barnes and Ilyasova?