After Ricky Rubio, Jonas Valanciunas=International Superstar

[Yoga]

In a season filled with indifference, this put a smile on my face:

http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/2012/0 ... MO-2013650

"Basketball is my life."

Not sure if already posted in the Valanciunas thread or if it belongs there. Do move if so.

[Yoga]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqL2bS3mo00[/youtube]

[Yoga]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=525be_HbbY0[/youtube]

[Johnlac1]

I just watched a full game featuring Valanciunas's team and some team from Lokomotove Kuban from Moscow played this month. To say Valanciunas underwhelmed me is putting it mildly. He has a very underdeveloped offensive game. He only scored two baskets, although one was a nice jump shot from the foul line. His post moves are inadequate. Even on defense, he blocked no shots and didn't appear intimidating, and Lokomotive Kuban is not the Miami Heat. I'd say Toronto better hope for major improvement from now until next season for Valanciunas to contribute. I hope the Raptors aren't expecting a savior. Of the two big Lithuanian big men being touted as impact players in the NBA, Donatas Motiejunas looks more likely to contribute his first season. He has a very polished offensive game and is almost as good an athlete as Valanciunas. Very disappointed in Valanciunas.

[Reignman]

I just watched a full game featuring Valanciunas's team and some team from Lokomotove Kuban from Moscow played this month. To say Valanciunas underwhelmed me is putting it mildly. He has a very underdeveloped offensive game. He only scored two baskets, although one was a nice jump shot from the foul line. His post moves are inadequate. Even on defense, he blocked no shots and didn't appear intimidating, and Lokomotive Kuban is not the Miami Heat. I'd say Toronto better hope for major improvement from now until next season for Valanciunas to contribute. I hope the Raptors aren't expecting a savior. Of the two big Lithuanian big men being touted as impact players in the NBA, Donatas Motiejunas looks more likely to contribute his first season. He has a very polished offensive game and is almost as good an athlete as Valanciunas. Very disappointed in Valanciunas.

Here's a suggestion, try watching more than 1 game if you're really trying to assess a player.

[Johnny Firpo]

I just watched a full game featuring Valanciunas's team and some team from Lokomotove Kuban from Moscow played this month. To say Valanciunas underwhelmed me is putting it mildly. He has a very underdeveloped offensive game. He only scored two baskets, although one was a nice jump shot from the foul line. His post moves are inadequate. Even on defense, he blocked no shots and didn't appear intimidating, and Lokomotive Kuban is not the Miami Heat. I'd say Toronto better hope for major improvement from now until next season for Valanciunas to contribute. I hope the Raptors aren't expecting a savior. Of the two big Lithuanian big men being touted as impact players in the NBA, Donatas Motiejunas looks more likely to contribute his first season. He has a very polished offensive game and is almost as good an athlete as Valanciunas. Very disappointed in Valanciunas.

He scored 3 baskets, had 3 blocks, and finished with 15/12, going 9 of 13 from the line. You're either dumb and/or blind, or you're trolling, there isn't really much more option here.

[Alfred]

I just watched a full game featuring Valanciunas's team and some team from Lokomotove Kuban from Moscow played this month. To say Valanciunas underwhelmed me is putting it mildly. He has a very underdeveloped offensive game. He only scored two baskets, although one was a nice jump shot from the foul line. His post moves are inadequate. Even on defense, he blocked no shots and didn't appear intimidating, and Lokomotive Kuban is not the Miami Heat. I'd say Toronto better hope for major improvement from now until next season for Valanciunas to contribute. I hope the Raptors aren't expecting a savior. Of the two big Lithuanian big men being touted as impact players in the NBA, Donatas Motiejunas looks more likely to contribute his first season. He has a very polished offensive game and is almost as good an athlete as Valanciunas. Very disappointed in Valanciunas.

Is this the game you're talking about:

http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocu ... mecode=135

Where Valanciunas had 17/10/3/3 on 5/6 shooting in 28 minutes?

[raptor21_85]

Johnlac1 has a point. Its okay. Lokomotiv and other euro teams are not the Miami Heat, but we can say the same thing with college teams prospects in the draft... college teams are not nba teams, but players show they have talent, thats the same with Big V, he has shown his talent good enough to play in the nba.. Big V is not the first option in his team, and he still puts double double, imagine if he develops his O.. He and Bargs will be a nice frontcourt.. MKG, Bargs and Big V will take us to playoffs

[Kabookalu]

No, not really. Upside is Gortat IMO

Hater, Val is already much better than scrub Gortat.

Gortat is a fantastic player, I would love it if Val could replicate his numbers and impact.

[UcanUwill]

Jonas played Lokomotiv twice last week. Put 17/10/3 bl. on 6 FG attempts, recorded a 33 efficiency rating on Tuesday, and then had 15/12/3 bl. on 5 FG attempts and 24 Efficiency rating. Hello!

Valanciunas is better than Motiejunas on both, offense and defense. Sure Motiejunas has more polished star alike game, but hes inefficient and he needs to fix his shot selection. Although, Donut truly is extremely talented on offense, I still much rather have Jonas ''no post moves'' Valanciunas on my side.

Just look at their TS%

VTB league : Jonas 67%. Donatas 56 %.

Eurocup/Euroleague : Jonas 68%. Donatas 49%

Points Per Shot : Jonas 1.8; Donatas 1.35

And we comparing defensive minded C, to scorer PF here.

Jonas is gold. His post moves are decent for a 19 year old, hes fluid and coordinated.
And sure Lokomotiv Kuban is no Miami heat, but on the other hand, no College team is Lokomotiv Kuban... Its a very good team, and their front court with Ali Traore and Jeremiah Massey would run circles around any college team.

[Deadpool_X]

Can we not keep this on the Raptors board? I know there sure isn't much going on in Raps land but can we not tone down the "in-your-face" attitude about him? A good rule in life is keep your words short and sweet in case you have to eat them.

But if I must comment on topic; I think Val will eventually be a very good player, but never a 20 ppg scorer just because we probably will never need him to be. I would much rather him become an elite defender and rebounder. 15 and 13 would make me drool more than 20 and 9 especially if he can average a block or two.

[UcanUwill]

Dont look at it as Toronto related thread. Its just Jonas Valanciunas thread. He is a huge prospect, and already has tons of non Lithuanian and non Raptor related followers.

It's not really fair to compare him to Ricard Rubio, Rubio was number one young player on a planet at one point, but I do agree Jonas is born to play in the NBA and should be an international superstar. He puts other euros to shame. IMO, the only 2 young Europeans who comes close to him are Nikola Mirotic and Dario Saric.

[sisibilio]

Yea, the attention and hype that surrounded Rubio since he was a kid is unprecedented for any european player i can remember, not even the likes of Petrovic or Sabonis back in the day come close. Probably only Lebron on the other side of the ocean is comparable.

[Johnlac1]

I just watched a full game featuring Valanciunas's team and some team from Lokomotove Kuban from Moscow played this month. To say Valanciunas underwhelmed me is putting it mildly. He has a very underdeveloped offensive game. He only scored two baskets, although one was a nice jump shot from the foul line. His post moves are inadequate. Even on defense, he blocked no shots and didn't appear intimidating, and Lokomotive Kuban is not the Miami Heat. I'd say Toronto better hope for major improvement from now until next season for Valanciunas to contribute. I hope the Raptors aren't expecting a savior. Of the two big Lithuanian big men being touted as impact players in the NBA, Donatas Motiejunas looks more likely to contribute his first season. He has a very polished offensive game and is almost as good an athlete as Valanciunas. Very disappointed in Valanciunas.

Here's a suggestion, try watching more than 1 game if you're really trying to assess a player.

Actually, I do try. But I've seen a lot clips of Valanciunas and that was my first chance to see him in a full game. Does he have a lot to recommend him? Sure. He's young, athletic, long, plays hard, and is apparently willing to progress. It's just that I haven't seen him display any offensive skills other than on opportunity pts. or transition baskets. He did hit a jump shot from the foul line that looked pretty decent. By the way, you can watch the game yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'd say if he goes to the Raptors next year, they should not expect a lot out of him. He's going to have to develop a strong offensive move. By comparison, Motiejunas is a far superior offensive player and almost as good on defense. However, Valanciunas has youth on his side and he may come along in a few years. Just probably not next year. I'm afraid the Raptor's management is setting this kid up to be the savior of the franchise, and I hope he d doesn't fall on his face.

[Johnlac1]

Sorry Valanciunas boosters. A.Davis and Motiejunas look like they can put up good nos. next year in the NBA. At this stage, I don't think Valanciunas can. I'll try to see more games or longer clips. Watch the Lokomotiv game yourself on youtube, and draw your own conclusions. He doesn't look ready. That doesn't mean I don't think he can't be a good pro. Like Meyers Leonard, I think he needs a few more years.

[UcanUwill]

Donatas may not even coming next year, and thats a blessing in disguise for all Rockets fans out there if you ask me.

Actually, I do try. But I've seen a lot clips of Valanciunas and that was my first chance to see him in a full game. Does he have a lot to recommend him? Sure. He's young, athletic, long, plays hard, and is apparently willing to progress. It's just that I haven't seen him display any offensive skills other than on opportunity pts. or transition baskets. He did hit a jump shot from the foul line that looked pretty decent. By the way, you can watch the game yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'd say if he goes to the Raptors next year, they should not expect a lot out of him. He's going to have to develop a strong offensive move. By comparison, Motiejunas is a far superior offensive player and almost as good on defense. However, Valanciunas has youth on his side and he may come along in a few years. Just probably not next year. I'm afraid the Raptor's management is setting this kid up to be the savior of the franchise, and I hope he d doesn't fall on his face.

Jonas is great off ball player, thats being unnoticed sometimes... Course people should not expect wonders, hes gonna be a rookie center from Europe...

Some ridiculous things you said.

You did watched only clips (+ one game right?), and you compare his defense to the other guy? Jonas improved his defense this season and looks like potential anchor. Last years Donatas was literally one of the worst defenders i have ever seen in my entire life... He was so bad last year, just absolutely atrocious. He did improved his defense and rebounding game A LOT, but Jonas is definitely a superior player and its not even close... The whole comparison is laughable, its like comparing Fredette's defense to Rondo's...

And then again

Motiejunas is a far superior offensive player

Motiejunas sure has more offensive talent and looks better in Youtube clips, but if you are a basketball player, you should get your job done, he has plenty of nice, smooth and good looking moves, but those are completely ineffective. He just looks stupid, A lot of players could try to be fancy or shoot 3 three pointers per game on below 30%, but they are smart enough not to do this. Jonas may goes with hustle, does some simple moves, but he at least gets his job done and plays smart every second.
How in hell having similar points per game in the same league, on a worse team while having way worse efficiency and percentage translates into being

far superior offensive player

?

In the VTB, Jonas scores 10.5 ppg. in 22:36 minutes per game on 60 FG%
compare to Motiejunas 13.5 ppg. in 25:51 minutes per game on 47 FG%

[raptor21_85]

we dont expect Big V to be an NBA superstar in his rookie season. We just believe he has the potential to be a nice player, who can be an anchor on D.. We also think he's the perfect complement to play with Bargs, we hope that could turn into a helluva frontcourt.. Im sure UcouldUwould watch a lot of games and his opinion, beyond being a Raptors fan, is reliable..

[Johnlac1]

To all the JVal followers who hope he's the second coming of Bill Walton, he's not. It does look like he can develop into a decent center, but he has a long way to go. I don't hate the guy, but when I watch a player in game situations, I expect something they do over the course of a full game to wow me. JVal didn't do anything in the Lokomotiv game that wowed me. It's like when I watched clips of Jan Vesely in his Euro competition. While the clips wowed me, I kept waiting for some signs that he could shoot or take his man off the dribble. I saw little evidence that he could, and his lack of results in those areas with the Wizards is backing my assessment. Wizards fans say the same things.

When I don't see certain things even on clips that are designed to highlight a player's strongest suits, I wonder about them. I've watched numerous Val clips plus the full game against Lokomotiv, and I still haven't seen him make a skilled post move. virtually all the clips showing Val scoring show him scoring on pnr, opportunity, and transition baskets. He looks good doing those, but I want to see him execute slick post moves or see him take his man off the dribble. Rebounding appears to be his strongest suit, but he needs work on his onball defense as well. My comments are in line with pro experts who say mostly the same thing about him i.e. a good, long athlete with a high motor who needs work on his offensive skills. That doesn't mean I don't think he can't play in the NBA or turn into a good player. He's very young and appears to want to get real good. But I wiil have to see more improvement than what I've seen so far. I hope the Raptors take him along slowly and the Raptor fans don't expect too much the first year.

[Mefisto]

To all the JVal followers who hope he's the second coming of Bill Walton, he's not. It does look like he can develop into a decent center, but he has a long way to go. I don't hate the guy, but when I watch a player in game situations, I expect something they do over the course of a full game to wow me. JVal didn't do anything in the Lokomotiv game that wowed me. It's like when I watched clips of Jan Vesely in his Euro competition. While the clips wowed me, I kept waiting for some signs that he could shoot or take his man off the dribble. I saw little evidence that he could, and his lack of results in those areas with the Wizards is backing my assessment. Wizards fans say the same things.

When I don't see certain things even on clips that are designed to highlight a player's strongest suits, I wonder about them. I've watched numerous Val clips plus the full game against Lokomotiv, and I still haven't seen him make a skilled post move. virtually all the clips showing Val scoring show him scoring on pnr, opportunity, and transition baskets. He looks good doing those, but I want to see him execute slick post moves or see him take his man off the dribble. Rebounding appears to be his strongest suit, but he needs work on his onball defense as well. My comments are in line with pro experts who say mostly the same thing about him i.e. a good, long athlete with a high motor who needs work on his offensive skills. That doesn't mean I don't think he can't play in the NBA or turn into a good player. He's very young and appears to want to get real good. But I wiil have to see more improvement than what I've seen so far. I hope the Raptors take him along slowly and the Raptor fans don't expect too much the first year.

Mufasa, is it you my friend ? Master of disquise indeed.

[Raptor_Claw]

To all the JVal followers who hope he's the second coming of Bill Walton, he's not. It does look like he can develop into a decent center, but he has a long way to go. I don't hate the guy, but when I watch a player in game situations, I expect something they do over the course of a full game to wow me. JVal didn't do anything in the Lokomotiv game that wowed me. It's like when I watched clips of Jan Vesely in his Euro competition. While the clips wowed me, I kept waiting for some signs that he could shoot or take his man off the dribble. I saw little evidence that he could, and his lack of results in those areas with the Wizards is backing my assessment. Wizards fans say the same things.

When I don't see certain things even on clips that are designed to highlight a player's strongest suits, I wonder about them. I've watched numerous Val clips plus the full game against Lokomotiv, and I still haven't seen him make a skilled post move. virtually all the clips showing Val scoring show him scoring on pnr, opportunity, and transition baskets. He looks good doing those, but I want to see him execute slick post moves or see him take his man off the dribble. Rebounding appears to be his strongest suit, but he needs work on his onball defense as well. My comments are in line with pro experts who say mostly the same thing about him i.e. a good, long athlete with a high motor who needs work on his offensive skills. That doesn't mean I don't think he can't play in the NBA or turn into a good player. He's very young and appears to want to get real good. But I wiil have to see more improvement than what I've seen so far. I hope the Raptors take him along slowly and the Raptor fans don't expect too much the first year.

Jan Vesely was a defensive specialist, that played SMALL forward, and was used as a hustle and energy role player on his team Partizan.

Valanciunas is a guy that plays in the paint, rebounds, and throws his body around on the offensive glass. Neither one of them is a remotely similar player at all. Vesely is WAY more athletic, and is a defensive specialist/hustle guy that was a wing player in Europe, that the Wizards are trying to convert to a big man.

Valanciunas is a guy that spends his time in the paint, is not known for athleticism at all, and is basically more of a banger, in being he will foul some people, use his body, and bang on the boards, especially going for offensive rebounds.

Vesely not being able to dribble and shoot, which should be no surprise, has no bearing on Valanciunas at all. Yes, Valanciunas also cannot really shoot or dribble much at all either. But he is in the paint playing center. He's not an over sized defensive specialist wing (like Vesely).

So I see no reason at all why Vesely would be compared to Valanciunas. They are completely and totally different types of players.

As for Valanciunas and his on the ball D and post moves....of course they are lacking. This guy is barely to 20 years old. What on Earth are you expecting? He's just an average level center by Euroleague standards. He's barely to 20 years old. Did you actually expect a 20 year old center to be good in low post moves and on the ball defense, even in the second tier Eurocup? This is a way higher level than NCAA - near 20 year old centers are not going to have good on ball D and post moves playing at that level.