Leafs Regular Season Discussion

[whysoserious]

I doubt the Canucks can afford him under the cap but Schneider for Nash makes a lot of sense with some filler.

[_venom_]

The Leafs priorities by the deadline should be Carter and a goalie imo. Nash would be great and all but it's going to take a massive package to get him and he doesn't fill the Leafs biggest need. Carter will be cheaper and he has the potential to make his contract a bargain if he gets back to playing like he did in Philly. If the Leafs can get Carter then I also want Burke to move Grabovski before the deadline. I like Grabovski and all but with a guy like Tuomo Ruutu getting nearly 5 million per year, Grabovski is going to want at least 5-5.5 million and I wouldn't spend that kind of money on him. Recoup assets by dealing Grabo. Secondly the Leafs need a goalie desperately. Gustavsson and Reimer have both had decent stretches but they are both way too prone to giving up the most deflating bad goals too often. Gustavsson isn't in next year's plans (I hope) so I'd try to make a play for a goalie like Harding, Lindback or even Mason (he can still re-find his game).

[Bankai]

Reading the paper it seems like everyone wants to hang Jonas as the main culprit for the Goalie woes eventhough both him and Reimer havent looked any good as of late. Except I still see Reimer keep getting a free pass, I am assuming that because he is still young that he has time to sort all of this stuff out. But both of them have not proven that they are starting quality goalies. Leafs need one bad, and if the media continues to hang Jonas like this (yea I know he let in a bad OT goal, but he had times where he saved the game for the Leafs to stay in it. Reimer got pulled the previous game and no one seemed to care.), then its likely he either wont be back next year or will be moved to back up status permanently.

The Leafs need a #1 goalie, he doesent have to be a lights out one like Rinne or Brodeur but even a Niemi would be good enough. Niemi only played well enough for Chicago to win the Stanley Cup, like a less shaky Jonas in January. Jonas can play like a real #1 at time, but he does also can give up alot of bad goals for everyone's taste. And I dont think Reimer is the answer as well, he only had 1 good half season, and was dubbed the savior. His situation is eerily similar to Jose Calderon's situation a while back when the Raptors gave him a big contract after a good half season performance, and now its considered a bad contract. They need a proven NHL starting Goalie at worst, All Star caliber is just a dream. Toronto Teams needs to be more careful in handing out big contracts based on small sample sizes (Ron Wilson).

[_venom_]

The Leafs certainly need an upgrade in goal. Worst trade the Leafs ever made was sending Rask to Boston for Raycroft. They may never get a goalie that good again.

Rumors are running rampant that Carter to the Kings is getting close.

[whysoserious]

Done deal. Carter to LA, and thevLeafs miss out once again. Still 3 days but this team seems to never come through when these guys hit the market.

[_venom_]

I'm glad the Leafs passed on Carter after seeing the price LA paid for him. They gave up way too much. That's like us trading Gardiner and a 1st for Carter. I actually might be happy if the leafs try to sell off a couple pieces (Grabo) and just take the extra picks. Use another offseason to stockpile young assets.

[Crowned]

I'm glad the Leafs passed on Carter after seeing the price LA paid for him. They gave up way too much. That's like us trading Gardiner and a 1st for Carter. I actually might be happy if the leafs try to sell off a couple pieces (Grabo) and just take the extra picks. Use another offseason to stockpile young assets.

I think Schenn and a first is probably similar (I'd think Johnson would have more value than Schenn IMO).

[_venom_]

I'm glad the Leafs passed on Carter after seeing the price LA paid for him. They gave up way too much. That's like us trading Gardiner and a 1st for Carter. I actually might be happy if the leafs try to sell off a couple pieces (Grabo) and just take the extra picks. Use another offseason to stockpile young assets.

I think Schenn and a first is probably similar (I'd think Johnson would have more value than Schenn IMO).

Yea I think Johnson has more value than Schenn that's why I think Gardiner is closer to Johnson's value. I personally value Gardiner more than Johnson. Gardiner is my lone untouchable on this team. Howson did a good job recouping his assets from his trade getting Carter. Too high of a price for Carter though imo.

[whysoserious]

You're probably right in that it's a high price but you got to give up something to get something. Carter may not have been the right fit and what not, but he's still better than anything we have down the middle. He's in the prime of his career, the Leafs need to make a move on a guy like that cause we're never gonna be bad to get a top pick.

I don't mind the option of selling off, clearly this team is barely a playoff team and really slipping right now. Great deal for Columbus though cause LA can't vault up too far so the first rounder will still be in a decent position.

[Crowned]

Quite honestly, if Burke stands pat at the deadline, I'm not going to be happy. He's got to decide what he wants to do with this roster. He can either;

1) Get a guy like Nash or Dustin Brown (who is now available according to Bob Mackenzie) and make a run for the playoffs.

or

2) Trade a couple of assets and focus on next year. There are enough 'buyers' right now, that we could get some half decent youth in return for guys like Macarthur and Grabovski (I don't want to trade him, but I get the feeling he'd fetch a good package). The team is too inconsistent to do anything in the playoffs. The talent may be there to win a series or two, but having players dissapear for stretches in the season is simply unacceptable.

[YogiStewart]

if you think that Burke will be a seller or will stand pat, you're fooling yourself.

i'm not a betting man, but Burke making a big trade is all but guaranteed money. he has a) no self control, b) no patience c) no sense of reality as to how far the Leafs are from being Cup contenders d) the pressure of a hockey market to make the playoffs

I could argue that trading for a top 10-20 goalie would be enough to put the Leafs in 8th, but you're going to trade a good prospect or 2 for that. is it worth it to get killed by Boston in 4 or 5 games?

what else would you trade for? a #1 centre? that will get you 8th spot. maybe 7. so you would get killed by Boston.

Leafs fans should fear the Leafs trading for a guy with a highish salary and a longish contract. that means Grabovski will be gone (I think he doesn't deserve $5 mil/year and would fade on any other team, but is a great fit for Toronto) and it means that you're content to have a Phaneuf-Kessel-new player core for the next 4 years. i wouldn't be 100% cool with building a contender based on that.

hope that Burke can stand pat or make some re-shuffling tweaks instead of swinging for the fences. a fence swing will likely result in a treadmill team that will never finish above 6th spot in the East

[whysoserious]

if you think that Burke will be a seller or will stand pat, you're fooling yourself.

i'm not a betting man, but Burke making a big trade is all but guaranteed money. he has a) no self control, b) no patience c) no sense of reality as to how far the Leafs are from being Cup contenders d) the pressure of a hockey market to make the playoffs

I could argue that trading for a top 10-20 goalie would be enough to put the Leafs in 8th, but you're going to trade a good prospect or 2 for that. is it worth it to get killed by Boston in 4 or 5 games?

what else would you trade for? a #1 centre? that will get you 8th spot. maybe 7. so you would get killed by Boston.

Leafs fans should fear the Leafs trading for a guy with a highish salary and a longish contract. that means Grabovski will be gone (I think he doesn't deserve $5 mil/year and would fade on any other team, but is a great fit for Toronto) and it means that you're content to have a Phaneuf-Kessel-new player core for the next 4 years. i wouldn't be 100% cool with building a contender based on that.

hope that Burke can stand pat or make some re-shuffling tweaks instead of swinging for the fences. a fence swing will likely result in a treadmill team that will never finish above 6th spot in the East

I don't understand this, Burke has shown no impatience with this team. His big deals for Kessel and Phaneuf have both been with an eye on the future. No short term fixes so far in Toronto so saying he’s going to be backed in to a corner and make a big deal is very inaccurate, at least based on his Leafs history.

Since McKenzie is saying Brown and Bernier are both available now from LA, I think this is exactly the move the Leafs should make on both players. Could help in the short run and long-term gives the Leafs a potential no. 1 goalie. They can then address the C position in the off-season.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'd rather just make a lesser deal and bolster the pathetic 3rd line. Lombardi has been a corpse all season. He should be in the press box. I really don't think we're need all that much to make 8th, and that should be the goal this year. Grabbo is worth 5 million if Connolly is. We might get some savings on Kulemin's off-year to balance off the $ spent on Grabbo. I'd like to replace MacArthur with a big scoring wing, but Nash is obviously not a second line player and is bloody expensive.

[YogiStewart]

I don't understand this, Burke has shown no impatience with this team. His big deals for Kessel and Phaneuf have both been with an eye on the future. No short term fixes so far in Toronto so saying he’s going to be backed in to a corner and make a big deal is very inaccurate, at least based on his Leafs history.

Since McKenzie is saying Brown and Bernier are both available now from LA, I think this is exactly the move the Leafs should make on both players. Could help in the short run and long-term gives the Leafs a potential no. 1 goalie. They can then address the C position in the off-season.

Cliff Fletcher refused to build from the draft.
Every successful team builds from the draft.
The Leafs have a tradition of trading away draft picks.
I'd argue with you that even if Kessel's a top 10 forward in the league (which he isn't) that I would rather keep two high 1st round picks instead of trading for an above average player. dollar-wise, it made zero sense. you pay Kessel $5 mil/year. you pay a 1st round pick $1 mil. You have a salary cap to keep an eye on and I'd rather gamble on 2 first-round picks at $2/year than one player at $5 mil/year.

the biggest problem was Burke over-estimated his team. he thought a crappy team was a playoff contender. he was beyond wrong and paid dearly for it. Right now, I'd much rather have Seguin than Kessel, regardless of points.

Phaneuf is getting SIX AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS this year, next year and then FIVE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS the following year. even though Burke traded garbage out for him, his cap hit does not match what he brings to the team.

factor in that Burke is paying $4.5 mil for Komisarek to not play, $4 million for Liles, and $3.5 million for Schenn. that's almost $20 million, or 1/3 of your salary cap, tied up in 4 players that arguably aren't worth that amount.

you cannot succeed long term if you poorly manage your cap and your draft picks. when your team's fighting for 8th place, you don't sign your stiffs up for such large amounts. it doesn't matter how many Gardiners and prospects you have coming up. you are screwed until 2014 with this D group unless another team wants to trade their overpaid forward for your overpaid D-man.

oh, and Gunnarson's due for a new contract in 2013-14. Betting you he gets $4 mil/year.
and if Franzen part of the team's future? he's due for a new contract this off season. $3 mil/year?

barring trades, the Leafs' D is set in stone for the next 4 seasons. that $27 million, or half your payroll, on D. remind me again what the team's GAA is?

so yes, that's impatience.

[whysoserious]

Burke has made some bad signings and I won't totally rehash the Kessel deal, I'm actually with you on that but he didn't trade for overpriced, aging vets just to push in. He's acquired young pieces that fit short and long-term needs on the whole. You pointed to Leafs fans should be worried going in to the deadline but Burke has shown no panic modes in his time here so far.

Rebuilding through the draft is the best thing to do, but it's not the only way and his drafting record overall has been pretty good for the picks he's had and he's acquired other good young prospects and picks too.

[YogiStewart]

but the pending trade for Nash (i'm convinced this will happen...hell, 3 years ago, Burke publicly told people, including my brother in law, that he was going to target Nash and the Sedins) is another high salary that may not make much of a difference for this year or the years to come.

[whysoserious]

That's a fair opinion to have. I actually like the defense overall that the team currently has. Between Liles, Phaneuf, Gunnarson and Franson, that's solid and you add in Gardiner and Schenn plus Aulie in the wings. Is Phaneuf overpaid? Sure but we gave up nothing for him.

I think it's time to cash in on Schenn and Nash is still young so having Nash, Kessel and Lupol up front is pretty good with Kulemin and McArthur supporting that. If they can get some solid C to fill the first line, drop Bozak down to second line and Connoly could be gone next season.

As for Komisarek, they can ship him down to the minors and not affect the cap. This is one tool the Leafs haven't fully taken advantage of to correct their mistakes. They were spending more on salaries pre-lockout so correct your mistakes by putting a guy like Komisarek in the minors to free back up money a la Jeff Finger.

[Jay_Hawk]

but the pending trade for Nash (i'm convinced this will happen...hell, 3 years ago, Burke publicly told people, including my brother in law, that he was going to target Nash and the Sedins) is another high salary that may not make much of a difference for this year or the years to come.

Burke is a blowhard- I dont know why you're expecting anything big from him. In his tenure as a GM in this league, he's never made a trade for a franchise player. Flat-out, he hasn't. And if you consider Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul as franchise-guys, then I think you've had one too many sips of the Burkie kool-aid.

Remember his all-but-guarantee about acquiring the draft rights to Tavares? Didn't exactly pan out. And for the record, saying something 'publicly' would indicate he said something to the media. Because what he said to your 'brother-in-law' wasn't, then the conversation is considered private, also known as bull**** spin at a fan convention.

[Brew666]

but the pending trade for Nash (i'm convinced this will happen...hell, 3 years ago, Burke publicly told people, including my brother in law, that he was going to target Nash and the Sedins) is another high salary that may not make much of a difference for this year or the years to come.

Burke is a blowhard- I dont know why you're expecting anything big from him. In his tenure as a GM in this league, he's never made a trade for a franchise player. Flat-out, he hasn't. And if you consider Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul as franchise-guys, then I think you've had one too many sips of the Burkie kool-aid.

Remember his all-but-guarantee about acquiring the draft rights to Tavares? Didn't exactly pan out. And for the record, saying something 'publicly' would indicate he said something to the media. Because what he said to your 'brother-in-law' wasn't, then the conversation is considered private, also known as bull**** spin at a fan convention.

He drafted the Sedin twins 2nd and 3rd overall, which is considered one of the best orchestrated draft day trades of all time.

Was able to trade up to bring Pronger to Hartford

Traded a 1st to WAS for Linden

All franchise players.

He talks a lot and I don't like it but it works for him and he gets results. It was stupid of him to guarantee that he was going to get Tavares but it would've been a massive overpay to pry him away from the Islanders anyhow. Franchise players don't fall off trees and I doubt GMs are calling Burke to take theirs off their hands.

When we took on Phaneuf and Lupul we were paying pennies on the dollar and neither of those trades go through if we don't get Gardiner or Aulie, two core pieces and Gardiner could be a franchise player. Burke has had a plan to take on salary (b/c at the time the Leafs had cap space) as long as the opposing GM would give up a prospect. As a result, we now have Gardiner, Aulie and Franson. All pieces for the future. I'd rather take on salary for the short term if we're improving our alent in the long run which is exactly what he did.

[Jay_Hawk]

The Sedin twins trade was masterfully orchestrated, but the pair weren't considered to be "franchise players" and the 1999 draft is considered to be one of the weakest in history. And the Pronger trade? Sure it was great, but it was 20 damn years ago!!! Prior to the lockout and the introduction of the 'new' NHL. And he was fired after one year and worked for the league afterwards.

I'm sorry, but that wasn't prime Linden. That was Linden in 2001, nowhere near his superstar form. And Gardiner a 'Franchise player?" I think very highly of Gardiner, but I don't see him being a 'superstar'. If you think Linden in 2001 was a superstar and that Gardiner will be, then you and I clearly have different opinions of what 'franchise player' means. If those are the best examples of 'franchise players' that Burke has accumulated, then my point is clearly made.