Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[ty123]

Barnes will be a great spot up shooter at the next level.

[Indeed]

his shot selection is still terrible and he lacks poise.
my comment stated nothing negative about his athleticism.

how come you didn't critique jj's jump shot?

At this moment, JJ and MKG are Not known for their offense, so I am judging them on what they are known to bring on the court which make them who they are as players.. defensive players

MKG's jumpshot is a work-in-progress which is never a good sign.

Defensively, JJ plays at a level that not too many NBA players can play at.

JJ is a better player, and MKG is far from what JJ can do in the pro level.
JJ is bigger, and a better fit due to the lack of help defense we need at the PF spot.
Also, JJ's court vision and passing is way better than MKG, even MKG is better at man defense.

I see MKG as a poor man's JJ (due to size), and perhaps slightly better than Julian Wright.

[Indeed]

I've been intrigued by Damian Lillard and would look at getting another first rounder for him if he declares for the draft.

I've got a feeling Utah could snatch him up with Golden St's pick.

I'd like to know more about Lillard myself. Looks like his team will make the NCAA tourney, as they're leading the SkyWest Conf.

Again, which young player are we trading away to give him playing time?
I think Lillard is great, but he is a compliment player when you can get offense at your wing position. None of DeRozan, Weems, Barnes, Lamb, Beal are explosive enough to penetrate and create for others, so I don't see him as a good fit until we have more someone explosive at the wing.

[Dr Positivity]

So I guess it's safe for me to come out again and say that Barnes is going to be a Luol Deng player? I was roasted years ago before Barnes went to North Carolina that he was going to be a great complimentary player in the frame of Deng, and people said very mean things to me and threw all of his high school accolades in my face and said he'll be the next Kobe Bryant.

I'm not pencilling him in as Deng, who is a GREAT player. On paper he appears to share some things with Deng, but he also appears to share a lot with Marvin Williams. So it could go in either direction. My favorite comparison for him might be Chase Budinger. I know I know, it's a cross racial comparison which just can't be accepted. But 6'7+ guy who hits 3s and can elevate well, but doesn't appear to have ability to attack the rim. Sounds like Budinger as much as anyone to me.

One thing about Deng is that while it seems like all he's doing is taking that signature midrange shot, he's actually had more FGM at the rim than from 16-23 every year hoopdata has tracked it (since 07), and the last two years he's scored nearly double from that range. Deng and David West in NOH were the two guys who's hoopdata stats really surprised me by showing they take as much shots inside as from that favorite midrange spot. If Deng was just a 20 foot shooter he'd have brutal efficiency and would be very easy to guard. Like everyone else I'm sure he knows 16-23 ft shots aren't a good one and should be a last resort in their offense. Right now 4.3 of his 14.3 shots are from that area. Last year 3.5 out of 14.1. That's not counting the FT line trips (about 2 more FGA a game essentially).

[Dr Positivity]

Lillard would definitely be a good 2nd pick in the 10-14 range if we could get one. I'm guessing people start clamoring for us to take him with our pick soon here because he'd fit in the lineup. My early argument against that is that B level PGs are becoming like B level RBs in the NFL, it's not that rare of an asset if they're not an all-star talent. It's a league where Augustin, Holliday and Collision are 33rd, 35th, and 36th in PG PER. It's not that Lillard can't be a top 10 player in this draft, it's that I think the cost of say, paying Ramon Sessions what he wants this summer or trying to bribe DJ Augustin out of Charlotte, would be much cheaper than using a top 5-10 pick on a PG like Lillard or Machado (My favorite PG prospect in the draft personally)

[Jazzfan12]

Meyers Leonard got benched, how much does that hurt his draft stock?

[SkywalkerAC]

Anyone else think that Barnes-Deng is a horrible comparison? Deng has developed a 3 point shooter but he's much more of a slasher than a jump shooter. Deng is a much better comparison for MKG than he is Barnes.

[SkywalkerAC]

What if Drummond drops to us?

[Marlo Stanfield]

Anyone else think that Barnes-Deng is a horrible comparison? Deng has developed a 3 point shooter but he's much more of a slasher than a jump shooter. Deng is a much better comparison for MKG than he is Barnes.

Yes.

What if Drummond drops to us?

What does the board look like? Gimme a hypothetical.

[Dr Positivity]

IMO you only pass on Drummond if you believe one of the following is true:

- Someone else on the board has clear all-star talent

- Drummond doesn't have clear all-star talent

I'm leaning towards both being true

[sunny]

An interview with Canadian star Tyler Ennis. Could be Canada's next best pg prospect.

http://www.pointguardu.com/content/ennis-enjoys-arizona-1322/

One of the nation's best guards was in attendance for Arizona's win over UCLA. Tyler Ennis, a highly rated 2013 prospect, took an unofficial visit to Arizona this weekend to get a better feel for the school. PGU caught up with Ennis after his visit to see how it went.

"The visit was great," said Ennis. "I got to see a game, the campus, and the facilities. What's not to love?"

Ennis was in attendance as the Wildcats defeated UCLA on senior day. It was an ugly, sloppy game, but Ennis was impressed by the environment.

"McKale Center is crazy," said Ennis. "The fans were so loud. They seemed really knowledgeable about the game and brought a lot of energy at key moments."

The victory didn't hurt, but Ennis was there to learn more about the program.

"Of course it was great that they won," Ennis said. "But I was paying more attention to how they play. Their offensive system, the guys on the court, etc."

After the game, Ennis toured the campus and facilities.

"The new gym and weight room are really impressive," said Ennis. "I'm in the gym all the time, and it's nice to know players can go there any time and work on their game."

After his tour, Ennis got a chance to speak with the coaches.

"I've seen Coach Book a few times," said Ennis. "But it was nice to get to know the rest of the staff. Coach Miller is a passionate guy. He was a point guard, so I know he can help me develop my game."

Ennis also got to hear about the future plans for the program.

"Everyone knows they have a great class coming in next year," Ennis said. "They are going after some of the best players in 2013 too, so it will be interesting to see what happens."

The desert surroundings made an impression as well.

"The weather was ridiculous," said Ennis. "It's February and it was around 80 degrees. It's like 40 degrees in New Jersey. The campus was nice too. I've never seen a cactus before, and the mountains were incredible."

While there's still a long way to go in his recruitment, Ennis can imagine playing at Arizona.

"I don't want to say I have a leader because there are a lot of great schools recruiting me," said Ennis. "But Arizona was really impressive. You can tell the fans love their team and the team loves playing for the fans. The seniors really showed how much they care, you could tell that game meant a lot to them."

Ennis had to leave early to get back to the east coast. Despite the rushed visit, Ennis enjoyed his time.

"Overall it was great," Ennis told PGU. "Like I said, what's not to love?"

Getting Ennis on campus was an important step for Arizona. Given the need for a point guard in 2013, Arizona will be following Ennis closely. Fans can expect updates throughout the summer as both the coaching staff and PGU will be watching Ennis every chance they get.

[Indeed]

Anyone else think that Barnes-Deng is a horrible comparison? Deng has developed a 3 point shooter but he's much more of a slasher than a jump shooter. Deng is a much better comparison for MKG than he is Barnes.

I don't see MKG has the offense that Deng developed. However, I don't see Barnes being the aggressive and active (or hardwork) like Deng does through out his career.

I see JO in Barnes, not active, but very quick reacting on defense.

[Indeed]

Lillard would definitely be a good 2nd pick in the 10-14 range if we could get one. I'm guessing people start clamoring for us to take him with our pick soon here because he'd fit in the lineup. My early argument against that is that B level PGs are becoming like B level RBs in the NFL, it's not that rare of an asset if they're not an all-star talent. It's a league where Augustin, Holliday and Collision are 33rd, 35th, and 36th in PG PER. It's not that Lillard can't be a top 10 player in this draft, it's that I think the cost of say, paying Ramon Sessions what he wants this summer or trying to bribe DJ Augustin out of Charlotte, would be much cheaper than using a top 5-10 pick on a PG like Lillard or Machado (My favorite PG prospect in the draft personally)

I see him dropped out of lottery. I think GMs will pick size and risk over a safe pick, less potential in scoring at the guard position. I think GM would risk Rivers or Teague at mid 1st round over Lillard, therefore he could be a late 1st round.

I think we are over our head when we are looking into prospect. We are ranking our needs, but not many teams need a PG, and there are many backup PGs in the summer (RFA/FA) for contenders. Some good PG prospects can be dropped to second round, which is no surprise to me.

Needs for PG:
Charlotte - No
New Orleans - Yes, but also C, PF, SF
Washington - No
New Jersey - No
Toronto - Yes
Detroit - No
Sacramento - Yes and No, with Evans there
Milwaukee - No
Phoenix - Yes if they trade Nash
Cleveland - No
Utah - Yes if they need a PG prospect
Utah - Yes if they need a PG prospect
New Orleans - Yes, but also C, PF, SF
Denver - No
Boston - No
Houston - No and ready to sell
Portland - Yes if they don't sign Felton
Memphis - No
New Jersey - No
LA Lakers - Yes and no
Atlanta - No
Philadelphia - No
LA Lakers - Yes and no
Orlando - No unless they traded for Jose (but we might take this pick)
Indiana - No
Boston - No
San Antonio - No
Chicago - No
Oklahoma Cty - No
*Miami - Yes if they need a backup

[Dr Positivity]

I agree that not many teams are drafting PG. I do mock drafts in the Draft forum and I've moved guys like Lillard, Machado, Marshall from late 1st to lotto and back just because if one of the PG drafting teams like NOH or Utah doesn't take you, it's a long fall for those guys. Teams don't use their top 20 pick to get their 15mpg backup PG

I think if we get the LAL or DAL pick then either Marshall or Machado will be available at that range. I really don't see the argument for Marshall over Machado though. Seems to me like Machado has everything Marshall does, but with a 3pt shot and 80%+ FT to make him a more usable halfcourt player. If Machado was on UNC and Marshall on Iona there's no way Marshall goes over him. I think Machado is easily the most underrated prospect this year, guys like Rubio and Calderon in the past have proven you don't have to be a Bayless or Flynn type speed freak to get into the paint, just quick - and he has basically everything else needed to be a starting PG

[sunny]

I agree with you 100%. However, its not like Iona's offense is completely gone without Machado. Momo Jones has really helped them out.

[Danchan]

I had a dream last night that raptors got the 2nd pick

[Indeed]

I agree that not many teams are drafting PG. I do mock drafts in the Draft forum and I've moved guys like Lillard, Machado, Marshall from late 1st to lotto and back just because if one of the PG drafting teams like NOH or Utah doesn't take you, it's a long fall for those guys. Teams don't use their top 20 pick to get their 15mpg backup PG

I think if we get the LAL or DAL pick then either Marshall or Machado will be available at that range. I really don't see the argument for Marshall over Machado though. Seems to me like Machado has everything Marshall does, but with a 3pt shot and 80%+ FT to make him a more usable halfcourt player. If Machado was on UNC and Marshall on Iona there's no way Marshall goes over him. I think Machado is easily the most underrated prospect this year, guys like Rubio and Calderon in the past have proven you don't have to be a Bayless or Flynn type speed freak to get into the paint, just quick - and he has basically everything else needed to be a starting PG

And I am not surprised there are a few players jump up the chart.
So I am not worried about drafting a PG prospect, and we might look into FA for a NBA ready PG to help right away (if we traded Calderon). So I don't see any rush on drafting a PG, especially if he doesn't have star potential, then I would wait for another year or two.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Didn't realize Barnes was such a poor mid-range shooter. Going into yesterday he's was 34.7% from 10-19ft and 35.3% from 5-10ft. Good finisher from close at 68.7, though.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/FreeportKid

I work @StatSheet and am also a contributor at ACCSports.com, Tobacco Road Blues, and HoopSpeakU

Lots of stats on here. Not as kind or imaginative as his fan club.

Is there a way to look up the shot selection stats for each player like with Hoopdata? Statsheet's website is a little unintuitive.

I took what I wrote directly from tweets, assuming he breaks it down himself. That site could use a makeover.

[Kevin Willis]

Article on Satoransky.
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Intern ... l-Rey-3856

I've seen a couple of his games online this year and really his team is killing him. Their offense is a pound the inside game but he's not near the man on his team. They just want him to bring up the ball like a PG, make the entry pass and then get out of the way. I didn't know his usage rate went down, considering it was low last year it's unfortunate. He can be a PG so I disagree with what he said. In Europe some players don't get the chance no matter how talented for whatever reason. I think his drop and his desire to come to the NBA will make him a steal.

[DreamTeam09]

6'7 pg. I'd draft him...