Official Speculation Thread (Pt XIII, Mods Close)

[Last Guardian]

Anderson also sucked in the 2nd meetings vs ATL and MIA... you know, after those teams realized they need to keep a man on him. Add those games to the two Boston games and it's hard to be optimistic about the playoffs since those are teams we'd have to face. Chance of him not being able to score much in the playoffs is much higher than him having consistent 20pt games. He's a really good offensive rebounder, but if he's not also scoring a lot, is he really worth keeping over a guy like Ellis?

And after Ellis put up 48 on OKC, they realized they had to guard him then he got 11 on 4/13 shooting hte next game.

At least anderson will rebound. If Ellis isn't scoring he is useless.

[The Real Dalic]

Not really. I don't think VC was worse in his first season here as he was in his last season in New Jersey. Just not getting the same opportunities. It would be the same with Ellis, his skills wouldn't be any worse, he just wouldn't be in the position to use them the same way.

VC was old and fat when we got him. he was a player that played off of his athleticism, which he lost when he got here. plus, it was just his first year, and, he got injured early. Ellis is still young and fast, he could get to the rim at will, and, with BBD and Dwight setting screens forget it...

[bigdogdylan5]

GS is so annoying Dwight clearly doesnt want to go there and they think they have the pieces to get Dwight but they are so damn stubborn

[OrlandO]

@D12VCMagic

I think you're just scarred from watching VC and JRich in ORL. They were/are on the downsides of their careers. How many times have we had to watch those players get to the rim, but not finish or miss dunks? Shell of their former selves once they came here. Ellis is early in his prime and still has his athleticism. He would be nothing like VC/JRich. Dude is fast as hell, can handle, get to the rim AND finish.

[Nyce_1]

I'm telling you guys, when Otis traded 2 2nd round picks for Harper, the writing was on the wall for Anderson. He's a good player and great teammate but you gotta give to get (Unless you're LAL or BOS). Davis will slide to starter and backup PF mins will be split between Earl & Harper.

Agree 100%. I even made that thread talking about it. I think Harper has a chance at being a very good player in this system like Ryno. Harper can def knock down the outside shot, but Ryno is a better rebounder.

Yup. Ryan is a better shooter and rebounder but I think Harper is a better finisher around the basket and more athletIc. And as a backup, he'll hold his own.

As much as I hate it, props to Otis for a good draft and potentially making our roster more athletic to hang.

[The Real Dalic]

to everyone saying ellis takes a lot of shots, the point is he takes a lot of short range shots closer to the rim. These are teh types of shots that alongside dwight get gobbled up and put back if they're missing. on gsw he looks like a chucker, but i bet here dwight would clean a ton of that up with putbacks.

that link whoever posted to an old opp analysis of monta doesn't refut anything. opp's articles are rarely super insightful. that article is basically saying whoa he scores a lot of points but don't get excited he's not wade. no f*cking duh he's not d wade and there's no way we'd ever remotely enter a discusson for a franchise perenial all star like wade where we're pushing ryan freaking anderson.

i'd rather have ellis penetrating and chucking up near the basket for dwight to clean up, then our current guys just standing around and clanking a 3 that's hard to rebound under the basket. i also think svg could improve ellis's team defense a smidge

I agree.

[ADRajX]

Ellis doesn't get to the line enough to be a star and he is a lousy 1st option. When you need 19 FGA to put up 22 points you are only a 20 point threat on the Warriors or Knicks. His offensive skill set is superb but has not shown himself to be a star, but borderline with potential to get there as he enters his prime. Guess what, give Ryan 34 minutes next year and he'll be a star. His prime is still a few years off too...

I'm going to have to respectively disagree

Take a look at the top 10 or 15 scorers in the league... look at their field goals attempted (FGA) and compare it to Ellis' (who btw is 7th in the league in scoring) ... around 16-20 FGA/shots for everybody on that list... and Ellis' FG % is right on par with other stars in the league... mid 40s ... heck his is even better than Deron's ... and Deron's team (NJ) is no better than GS's [which nullifies the good player on the bad team argument, IN THIS CASE, for Ellis]

I'll look at it more closely, I kinda intuitively took it as a given that with his high usage vs low FTA that this was the major differentiator between him and the other all star scorers. I'm also guessing that is a big reason for his borderline PER and very low ORtg.

I think that is a by-product of the GS Warriors' high tempo/transition offense... more FGs as a team... a lot of usage will go through Ellis, who is one of their best players (aside from Curry and Lee of course)... you also have to factor in that Ellis has been an iron-man this season, much like Dwight... he's playing 37 minutes every games... at one point earlier this season he was one of two or three players playing 39 or 40 minutes per games (with Kobe and Dwight)... so obviously there's going to be a skewed usage statistics and FGs/efficiency... which again, is far from the point... Ellis has a high skill level and good play-making ability... he's like a mini T-Mac mixed with a prime Gilbert Arenas... just with different styles and strengths obviously... I know people rag on his FG numbers in today's game... he went 10 for 27, correct? Well Westbrook (who is a Star, correct?) went 7 for 20 today for 22pts. I'm just saying... it's one thing when people say Ellis is not a star because of a certain statistic or number or category, but it's another thing when they ignore his actually skill level and ability which supersedes stats and usage points... he's in a different system, and his numbers are comparable to a lot of star guards in the league in terms of FG % and attempts... so which is it? Is Ellis not a star because of the stats and his usage? Or is Ellis not a star because he's not good enough skill-wise? Because I have refuted both stances the past several pages.

btw, this isn't an attack on you eyriq... just bringing up talking points made by other posters that are anti-Ellis for a lack of a better term.

[Nemesis21]

Monta deal 1:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7wmac3c

or

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=85ozpa8


option 1 gets them 2 young studs, plus a PG in Harris (not sure they want/need him).

option 2 gets them cap space. seems a waste to use Ellis primarily as a salary dump, though.

there needs to be some kind of halfway, where they get a guy like Anderson, but also get Kaman at the same time. but, we need New Orleans to take on Nelson's contract, too, and the only way i think they do that is if they get Anderson?

option 3 maybe?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=73k9hll

Option D, where we keep Ryno while still getting Ellis.

[The Real Dalic]

GS is so annoying Dwight clearly doesnt want to go there and they think they have the pieces to get Dwight but they are so damn stubborn

This.

[Hilltop]

Richardson isn't that old. He was averaging nearly 20 points per game right before he arrived in Orlando.

The problem is he cannot dribble and drive so going from an elite playmaker in Steve Nash to a midget with tunnel vision can make a world of difference.

J-Rich can still be very useful if we had someone who could create for him. Steve Nash is going to make him and Ryan Anderson look great.

[Nolimit1211]

GS is so annoying Dwight clearly doesnt want to go there and they think they have the pieces to get Dwight but they are so damn stubborn

Eh, they've made the playoffs what, 1 time in the last 20 years?... Dwight gets the fans excited one more year and brings some excitement to Oakland. I dont blame them.

[toquito]

GS people are on crack. They turned down Rondo and Brook Lopez for Ellis(supposedly). If they did that then Otis looks like a genius in comparison. The Magic can barley get those guys for Dwight Howard yet Monta Ellis is worth more than them? Talk about overvaluing. Anyways there's no chance whatsoever were getting Ellis with our assets. Brook Lopez and Rondo wipe their ass with anything we have(again if the rumors are true.) But yeah. They're not getting Howard.

[TSKD000]

Well I guess if we gut our team and get Monta, it would be our luck that Howard still says right before the deadline that he still wants out. Lol. Then we do the Howard/Turk/BBD trade and get back Bynum/Lowry/Scola.

Lowry
Monta
JRich
Scola
Bynum

Wow, can we do that now??? Haha

But seriously, GSW are idiots that over value their players too much to trade with us. I will believe we are getting Ellis only when I see it.

[The Real Dalic]

Anderson also sucked in the 2nd meetings vs ATL and MIA... you know, after those teams realized they need to keep a man on him. Add those games to the two Boston games and it's hard to be optimistic about the playoffs since those are teams we'd have to face. Chance of him not being able to score much in the playoffs is much higher than him having consistent 20pt games. He's a really good offensive rebounder, but if he's not also scoring a lot, is he really worth keeping over a guy like Ellis?

And after Ellis put up 48 on OKC, they realized they had to guard him then he got 11 on 4/13 shooting hte next game.

At least anderson will rebound. If Ellis isn't scoring he is useless.

The reason I want him is because we have a rebounder (Dwight). we have shooters (everyone). we have defensive players (Dwight, BBD, Q, Liggins). we do NOT have a scorer, period....

[D12VCMagic]

@D12VCMagic

I think you're just scarred from watching VC and JRich in ORL. They were/are on the downsides of their careers. How many times have we had to watch those players get to the rim, but not finish or miss dunks? Shell of their former selves once they came here. Ellis is early in his prime and still has his athleticism. He would be nothing like VC/JRich. Dude is fast as hell, can handle, get to the rim AND finish.

I'm not scared because of VC or J-Rich. I'm scared because he is a high volume scorer who won't be allowed to be high volume here. He adds some different things to our offense, but by gutting our roster you are taking other pieces away as well. You have to look at what you give away and what you get back and for what Ellis would likely do in our system, I don't think he is worth several quality players. If it kept Dwight for sure, I'd do it, but I don't buy into it actually working that way.

[Nemesis21]

Ryno is untouchable. Even for Ellis. Anyone but Ryno and Dwight.

[The Real Dalic]

I think that is a by-product of the GS Warriors' high tempo/transition offense... more FGs as a team... a lot of usage will go through Ellis, who is one of their best players (aside from Curry and Lee of course)... you also have to factor in that Ellis has been an iron-man this season, much like Dwight... he's playing 37 minutes every games... at one point earlier this season he was one of two or three players playing 39 or 40 minutes per games (with Kobe and Dwight)... so obviously there's going to be a skewed usage statistics and FGs/efficiency... which again, is far from the point... Ellis has a high skill level and good play-making ability... he's like a mini T-Mac mixed with a prime Gilbert Arenas... just with different styles and strengths obviously... I know people rag on his FG numbers in today's game... he went 10 for 27, correct? Well Westbrook (who is a Star, correct?) went 7 for 20 today for 22pts. I'm just saying... it's one thing when people say Ellis is not a star because of a certain statistic or number or category, but it's another thing when they ignore his actually skill level and ability which supersedes stats and usage points... he's in a different system, and his numbers are comparable to a lot of star guards in the league in terms of FG % and attempts... so which is it? Is Ellis not a star because of the stats and his usage? Or is Ellis not a star because he's not good enough skill-wise? Because I have refuted both stances the past several pages.

btw, this isn't an attack on you eyriq... just bringing up talking points made by other posters that are anti-Ellis for a lack of a better term.

Well said.

[Hilltop]

@D12VCMagic

I think you're just scarred from watching VC and JRich in ORL. They were/are on the downsides of their careers. How many times have we had to watch those players get to the rim, but not finish or miss dunks? Shell of their former selves once they came here. Ellis is early in his prime and still has his athleticism. He would be nothing like VC/JRich. Dude is fast as hell, can handle, get to the rim AND finish.

I'm scared because he is a high volume scorer who won't be allowed to be high volume here.

Bingo

[The Real Dalic]

@D12VCMagic

I think you're just scarred from watching VC and JRich in ORL. They were/are on the downsides of their careers. How many times have we had to watch those players get to the rim, but not finish or miss dunks? Shell of their former selves once they came here. Ellis is early in his prime and still has his athleticism. He would be nothing like VC/JRich. Dude is fast as hell, can handle, get to the rim AND finish.

I'm scared because he is a high volume scorer who won't be allowed to be high volume here.

Bingo

But who's gonna take the ball out of his hands here? especially with J-Rich and Ryno most likely gone if this trade happens...

[Noonskadoodle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDYoVOaq54s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

They used to call him Little Penny hahahahahahha