Official Speculation Thread (Pt XIII, Mods Close)

[Def Swami]

The "chucker" label for Monta is pretty outdated. Like DJRajX said, his fg% is par with other top scorers in the league.

For years, this team has lacked a guy that can get a bucket on his own when the offense is stagnant. Monta can certainly get a bucket whenever he wants. He has averaged 25, 24, and 22 ppg on 45%, 45%, and 43% fg% respectively. The guy is 26, with a quick first step, attacks the rim, has a mid-range game, and can get you a bucket. When the playoffs roll around, and when teams are closing out on our 3 point shooters, we're going to be looking for a player on our team to do something other than chuck a 3. Explosiveness, athleticism, and scoring is everything this team is missing. Cool, I'll concede Ryan has nice upside, but is he a game changer in a 7 game series? I don't think so.

[bigdogdylan5]

GS is so annoying Dwight clearly doesnt want to go there and they think they have the pieces to get Dwight but they are so damn stubborn

Eh, they've made the playoffs what, 1 time in the last 20 years?... Dwight gets the fans excited one more year and brings some excitement to Oakland. I dont blame them.

As a starting point i would want next two years unprotected first round picks and Curry plus Udoh and Thompson to even consider trading them Dwight so they would be destroying any hope for future just to get dwight for what 20 games? Hell its not guaranteed they will even make the playoffs But all this talk for Ellis is pointless. I agree that he would put us over the hump we would be able to contend with Chicago and Miami even if we had to give up Anderson. I think a good comparison is Tony Parker only alot more athletic, you pair him with a good coach in SVG plus a dominant Big man he will destroy. But again this is pointless because GS wont trade him to us

[OrlandO]

@D12VCMagic

I think you're just scarred from watching VC and JRich in ORL. They were/are on the downsides of their careers. How many times have we had to watch those players get to the rim, but not finish or miss dunks? Shell of their former selves once they came here. Ellis is early in his prime and still has his athleticism. He would be nothing like VC/JRich. Dude is fast as hell, can handle, get to the rim AND finish.

I'm not scared because of VC or J-Rich. I'm scared because he is a high volume scorer who won't be allowed to be high volume here. He adds some different things to our offense, but by gutting our roster you are taking other pieces away as well. You have to look at what you give away and what you get back and for what Ellis would likely do in our system, I don't think he is worth several quality players. If it kept Dwight for sure, I'd do it, but I don't buy into it actually working that way.

I said scarred, not scared. I'm saying you're worried he will fail here because of the experiences from the other, older guards we brought in who could no longer penetrate and be useful the way we need/needed them to be.

I think you're missing the biggest thing... if we have an opportunity to take ellis for a deal involving ryno, you have to take it because otherwise we may not have another deal on the table and dwight will ultimately leave. This current team is not going anywhere in the playoffs and it's not going to be enough to convince dwight to stay. Dwight would be excited about a young, exciting guard like Ellis.

[ADRajX]

The "chucker" label for Monta is pretty outdated. Like DJRajX said, his fg% is par with other top scorers in the league.

For years, this team has lacked a guy that can get a bucket on his own when the offense is stagnant. Monta can certainly get a bucket whenever he wants. He has averaged 25, 24, and 22 ppg on 45%, 45%, and 43% fg% respectively. The guy is 26, with a quick first step, attacks the rim, has a mid-range game, and can get you a bucket. When the playoffs roll around, and when teams are closing out on our 3 point shooters, we're going to be looking for a player on our team to do something other than chuck a 3. Explosiveness, athleticism, and scoring is everything this team is missing. Cool, I'll concede Ryan has nice upside, but is he a game changer in a 7 game series? I don't think so.

Yes! thank you

[The Real Dalic]

The "chucker" label for Monta is pretty outdated. Like DJRajX said, his fg% is par with other top scorers in the league.

For years, this team has lacked a guy that can get a bucket on his own when the offense is stagnant. Monta can certainly get a bucket whenever he wants. He has averaged 25, 24, and 22 ppg on 45%, 45%, and 43% fg% respectively. The guy is 26, with a quick first step, attacks the rim, has a mid-range game, and can get you a bucket. When the playoffs roll around, and when teams are closing out on our 3 point shooters, we're going to be looking for a player on our team to do something other than chuck a 3. Explosiveness, athleticism, and scoring is everything this team is missing. Cool, I'll concede Ryan has nice upside, but is he a game changer in a 7 game series? I don't think so.

This!

[TSKD000]

As much as I like some of our players, we are fooling ourselves in thinking that we are good enough to actually contend. Redick is great at what he does..spot up shooting, good ball movement but he's not even a third option on a contender. Ryno would make a great 3rd option for us with Howard and say Monta ahead of him. But you don't say no to Monta to keep Ryno. Ryno as our number 2 option will not win a championship. Still would also trade Hedo for SJax.

Monta
JRich
SJax
BBD
Howard

ECF potential team, Finals team if they gel fast and all play lights out. Plus, Howard probably stays.

[Nemesis21]

The "chucker" label for Monta is pretty outdated. Like DJRajX said, his fg% is par with other top scorers in the league.

For years, this team has lacked a guy that can get a bucket on his own when the offense is stagnant. Monta can certainly get a bucket whenever he wants. He has averaged 25, 24, and 22 ppg on 45%, 45%, and 43% fg% respectively. The guy is 26, with a quick first step, attacks the rim, has a mid-range game, and can get you a bucket. When the playoffs roll around, and when teams are closing out on our 3 point shooters, we're going to be looking for a player on our team to do something other than chuck a 3. Explosiveness, athleticism, and scoring is everything this team is missing. Cool, I'll concede Ryan has nice upside, but is he a game changer in a 7 game series? I don't think so.

This!

+1

[Reverse_Angle]

i am really curious to hear from "ryno untouchable guys" as to their ideas of which path to take in order to improve the team.

[gp123]

All the Ellis hate... Both Dwight and Ellis will require double teams all the time... The formula becomes simple, add a lockdown defender at the 2 and hopefully get another stretch 4 if Anderson goes.

You guys are worried about ellis's numbers going down... I bet they will sky through the roof with Dwight and baby setting screens.

[D12VCMagic]

But who's gonna take the ball out of his hands here? especially with J-Rich and Ryno most likely gone if this trade happens...

I think JJ would be more likely to go. He is younger and his contract isn't guaranteed next year, so they could easily dump him and save money if they wanted.

But as for your question. #12 is the main one. He is going to want touches and he is a ball stopper on offense. Plus we'd still have Hedo here, and he likes to get up some shots here and there....

I just can't see SVG letting Ellis have the ball and do whatever he wants, and even if he did I don't think Ellis is good enough to carry us over Chicago or Miami. I'm not against trading for Ellis, I just don't feel as comfortable with it as most people. There is a lot of negatives that could come from this deal and I don't feel much better with a Howard/Davis/Turkoglu/Richardson/Ellis lineup as I do with the one now. Both rosters have major flaws and we're staring losing our star center either way. But if Otis really wanted to gamble on this, I won't complain. I am growing tired of the gambles though...

[The Real Dalic]

As much as I like some of our players, we are fooling ourselves in thinking that we are good enough to actually contend. Redick is great at what he does..spot up shooting, good ball movement but he's not even a third option on a contender. Ryno would make a great 3rd option for us with Howard and say Monta ahead of him. But you don't say no to Monta to keep Ryno. Ryno as our number 2 option will not win a championship. Still would also trade Hedo for SJax.

Monta
JRich
SJax
BBD
Howard

ECF potential team, Finals team if they gel fast and all play lights out. Plus, Howard probably stays.

This too.

[Hilltop]

i am really curious to hear from "ryno untouchable guys" as to their ideas of which path to take in order to improve the team.

Yeah, we don't have much choice.

I've heard a lot of Suns fans say they would take a package involving Nelson, Redick and picks for Nash so long as we take back Frye or Childress. Of course, some say they want both Anderson and Redick or Anderson and Nelson, or all three.

Either way, we will have to be ready to trade Ryan when the time comes. We're in desperation mode to keep Dwight. You have to do whatever it takes. We don't have much else to offer.

[The Real Dalic]

But who's gonna take the ball out of his hands here? especially with J-Rich and Ryno most likely gone if this trade happens...

I think JJ would be more likely to go. He is younger and his contract isn't guaranteed next year, so they could easily dump him and save money if they wanted.

But as for your question. #12 is the main one. He is going to want touches and he is a ball stopper on offense. Plus we'd still have Hedo here, and he likes to get up some shots here and there....

I just can't see SVG letting Ellis have the ball and do whatever he wants, and even if he did I don't think Ellis is good enough to carry us over Chicago or Miami. I'm not against trading for Ellis, I just don't feel as comfortable with it as most people. There is a lot of negatives that could come from this deal and I don't feel much better with a Howard/Davis/Turkoglu/Richardson/Ellis lineup as I do with the one now. Both rosters have major flaws and we're staring losing our star center either way. But if Otis really wanted to gamble on this, I won't complain. I am growing tired of the gambles though...

Fair enough. but, there's a negative in every trade you do unless you're talking about the Lakers.

[The Real Dalic]

i am really curious to hear from "ryno untouchable guys" as to their ideas of which path to take in order to improve the team.

Yeah, we don't have much choice.

I've heard a lot of Suns fans say they would take a package involving Nelson, Redick and picks for Nash so long as we take back Frye or Childress. Of course, some say they want both Anderson and Redick or Anderson and Nelson, or all three.

Either way, we will have to be ready to trade Ryan when the time comes. We're in desperation mode to keep Dwight. You have to do whatever it takes. We don't have much else to offer.

This.

[Def Swami]

Ellis can get his shots next to Dwight, no question. Especially down the stretch of games. But his volume of shots isn't a concern, because he has matured as a player, and it really doesn't matter to me if his shot attempts were reduced. The fact is he adds a completely different dimension to your offense that is hard to come by. He's a scorer and he will score in a multitude of ways.

[Noonskadoodle]

Too bad we couldnt have Monta, S Jax, JJ, & Ryno all on the same team together. How EPIC would those 4 on a track be? those 4 would go perfect together.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llQrONSZDFw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hdXklpEmcg[/youtube]

[bigdogdylan5]

i am really curious to hear from "ryno untouchable guys" as to their ideas of which path to take in order to improve the team.

Yeah, we don't have much choice.

I've heard a lot of Suns fans say they would take a package involving Nelson, Redick and picks for Nash so long as we take back Frye or Childress. Of course, some say they want both Anderson and Redick or Anderson and Nelson, or all three.

Either way, we will have to be ready to trade Ryan when the time comes. We're in desperation mode to keep Dwight. You have to do whatever it takes. We don't have much else to offer.

This.

Thats assuming that these options are open Suns have said they arent gonna trade him unless he requests it and they dont expect him to and Ellis is awesome and a great player but GS are stubborn idiots

[TSKD000]

Who else thinks CHI would be crazy to give up Deng and Boozer for Pau??? As a Magic fan, if we get Monta, I would be all for CHI doing that trade. They get weaker, IMO.

On a side note, LAL might be thinking if they get Boozer (Howards friend) and then they offer us Deng and Bynum for Howard, Turk, Nelson then Howard would resign there because he will have a starting lineup of all his buddies.

[The Real Dalic]

Ellis can get his shots next to Dwight, no question. Especially down the stretch of games. But his volume of shots isn't a concern, because he has matured as a player, and it really doesn't matter to me if his shot attempts were reduced. The fact is he adds a completely different dimension to your offense that is hard to come by. He's a scorer and he will score in a multitude of ways.

Agreed.

[D12VCMagic]

The "chucker" label for Monta is pretty outdated. Like DJRajX said, his fg% is par with other top scorers in the league.

For years, this team has lacked a guy that can get a bucket on his own when the offense is stagnant. Monta can certainly get a bucket whenever he wants. He has averaged 25, 24, and 22 ppg on 45%, 45%, and 43% fg% respectively. The guy is 26, with a quick first step, attacks the rim, has a mid-range game, and can get you a bucket. When the playoffs roll around, and when teams are closing out on our 3 point shooters, we're going to be looking for a player on our team to do something other than chuck a 3. Explosiveness, athleticism, and scoring is everything this team is missing. Cool, I'll concede Ryan has nice upside, but is he a game changer in a 7 game series? I don't think so.

The whole "get a bucket on his own" thing is just a massively over stated feature in a player, especially by Magic fans. There are very few players who have this ability. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, etc. and in some cases they hurt their teams with that ability because they require so many ISOs and don't get teammates involved (Carmelo).

Monta Ellis is NOT one of these guys. Just because he is fast and athletic, doesn't mean he can create his own shot like these guys. What we really need in this system is a guy to run pick and rolls with the big fella, get him good looks so he doesn't have to use his ugly post game so much, hit open three point shooters in rhythm and be able to knock down shots himself. We don't need a "get his own bucket guy" because very few guys can do it on a consistent basis. We need better passing and then teams will have a harder time staying at home with everyone. Monta Ellis is a good player, but he does NOT solve all of our problems on offense. He adds some new things, but we're taking away other things with a deal and he likely won't be the same Monta you see in Golden State.