The Neglected Game Thread: GSW @ ATL

[Rip2137]

I...I don't see him saying any of that.

Monta hit 10 shots. I remember 2 jumpers over Smith and Zaza on switches, that nice spin move on Willie Green, and 1 shot on fast break off the top of my head.

So thats 4 out of the 10 that wasn't on Teague at all.

Jeff had a couple of bad passes, but there were 10+ assist to be had out there last night if guys did what they were supposed to do.

Also, Could Willie Green go talk with Joe Johnson about how to catch and shoot when coming off a screen and waiting for the D to make up ground is not working? that would be great.

The entire team shot like crap yesterday and we shot freethrows badly and we lost by 3. I am not too upsset about this. I am mostly upset about Josh and his attitude last night(and I get called a Josh Smith lover) and Joes over dribbling, AND Drew's weird sub patterns and bad coaching all around.

[Ruhiel]

Even outside of Josh Smith, The Hawks deserved to lose this game. Ivan + Josh would have been working closer to the basket and been better than what you had last night.

Once game got tight the Hawks went to Iso Josh Smith on the block. Smith scored going to his left David Lee forced Smith to his right Josh was getting outmuscled and resorting to long jumpers.

Then Larry Drew ran pick and rolls where josh had to rotate to perimeter to make the play work.

Or we had Josh posting up and getting no ground then he had to pass out to shooters who missed shots (Marvin).

Larry Drew got outcoached. Monta Ellis was at point guard to avoid Joe Johnson. Some nights they go small backcourt but not tonight. David Lee was too big and could single cover Josh Smith.

Larry Drew got outcoached. Halfcourt Sets. Crunch time. Out of bounds sets. Going to Big Matchups. Going Small matchups. Managing minutes (McGrady). Everything. He's incompetent. They dont understand team basketball. They thing iso talents combined with PnRs win games.


And you can't "rebuild" around Horford. You're praying for
You can trade Smith for a mid to late 1st rounder and some expirings.
You can tank hard and pray that some superstar falls in your laps.
Or you can pray for big time Free agents coming here to play with Horford & Teague.
Either way - pretty dumb.

When Have I ever been a Teague hater? Grow up.

[Superiorblogman]

He made a couple of jumpshots on switches and made like 2 out of the post. But he was not scoring on Teague. Jeff played GREAT defense on him. I don't know how you could watch that game and see any differnt.

Last night was weird, yeah it was a lost but we missed 38 shots in the paint. I am more happy about taking 38 shots in the paint than I am mad about losing. Josh Smith needed to be pulled in the 2nd quarter and benched for the game for his horrible attitude towards the end of the half. He stopped trying because he was mad that a play wasn't run for him(you could see the whole thing as it happened). Then he became a jump shooter in the 2nd half(although I can almost understand the logic. I can't make a layup so try the jumper...but he wasn't hitting those either)

Calling a timeout with Curry on the floor was embarassing. Playing Kirk Hirnich at all instead of Pargo and Tmac is getting embarassing as well.

Its time togive up on the Hinrich thing. He offers nothing offensively or defensively now, and kills any flow this team has.

People see what they want. Like you said though. Monta was not scoring on Teague like that he made a couple of fading back down jumpers and jumpers off of picks with a hand in his face and got pass him once or twice but other than that he got nothing. That's why he went 10-27. Since when is a guy shooting 37% dominating anything? I feel stupid for arguing with that guy. Thanks for showing me how stupid I look for arguing with the clown.

[Superiorblogman]

Even outside of Josh Smith, The Hawks deserved to lose this game. Ivan + Josh would have been working closer to the basket and been better than what you had last night.

Once game got tight the Hawks went to Iso Josh Smith on the block. Smith scored going to his left David Lee forced Smith to his right Josh was getting outmuscled and resorting to long jumpers.

Then Larry Drew ran pick and rolls where josh had to rotate to perimeter to make the play work.

Or we had Josh posting up and getting no ground then he had to pass out to shooters who missed shots (Marvin).

Larry Drew got outcoached. Monta Ellis was at point guard to avoid Joe Johnson. Some nights they go small backcourt but not tonight. David Lee was too big and could single cover Josh Smith.

Larry Drew got outcoached. Halfcourt Sets. Crunch time. Out of bounds sets. Going to Big Matchups. Going Small matchups. Managing minutes (McGrady). Everything. He's incompetent. They dont understand team basketball. They thing iso talents combined with PnRs win games.


And you can't "rebuild" around Horford. You're praying for
You can trade Smith for a mid to late 1st rounder and some expirings.
You can tank hard and pray that some superstar falls in your laps.
Or you can pray for big time Free agents coming here to play with Horford & Teague.
Either way - pretty dumb.

When Have I ever been a Teague hater? Grow up.

You sound as silly as usual for a troll. Why can't you build around Horford when he is currently the most respected player for the franchise? A guy that may end up being the next player head of the CBA from all reports. A guy that is your best rebounder and was your most dependable offensive weapon last year. Youre not exactly a Teague hater you just have little knowledge and bad analytical skills but you think you are on to something. Your silly Horford trolling that you have been doing for years is what you need to grow from.

[Rip2137]

Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed.

From a basketball standpoint, Josh isn't a good offensive player, but neither is Horford. Difference is Horford seems to know his limitations while Josh seems to sulk if he isn't involved offensively.

Josh is a good scorer in the right conditions. David Lee is too quick for him to face up and take, which pretty much negates josh's game. Right now, he faces up bigger guys and uses his quickness to get closer to the rim and opperate from there. If he can't face up, he can't back anyone down. Again though, this shouldn't be a problem against Orlando or Chicago. maybe against Miami. This remains the list of teams I actually give a crap about beating.

[Superiorblogman]

Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed.

From a basketball standpoint, Josh isn't a good offensive player, but neither is Horford. Difference is Horford seems to know his limitations while Josh seems to sulk if he isn't involved offensively.

Josh is a good scorer in the right conditions. David Lee is too quick for him to face up and take, which pretty much negates josh's game. Right now, he faces up bigger guys and uses his quickness to get closer to the rim and opperate from there. If he can't face up, he can't back anyone down. Again though, this shouldn't be a problem against Orlando or Chicago. maybe against Miami. This remains the list of teams I actually give a crap about beating.

I actually think Al is a good offensive player when I look at FG% rates and usual FT% rates and I think it is because he knows his limitations like you say. I actually am sure that Karl Malone had no post game. He made mid range jumpers and scored off of pick and rolls with Stockton. I am sorry but I totally believe Al could do that.

[Ruhiel]

Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed.

From a basketball standpoint, Josh isn't a good offensive player, but neither is Horford. Difference is Horford seems to know his limitations while Josh seems to sulk if he isn't involved offensively.

Josh is a good scorer in the right conditions. David Lee is too quick for him to face up and take, which pretty much negates josh's game. Right now, he faces up bigger guys and uses his quickness to get closer to the rim and opperate from there. If he can't face up, he can't back anyone down. Again though, this shouldn't be a problem against Orlando or Chicago. maybe against Miami. This remains the list of teams I actually give a crap about beating.

I actually think Al is a good offensive player when I look at FG% rates and usual FT% rates and I think it is because he knows his limitations like you say. I actually am sure that Karl Malone had no post game. He made mid range jumpers and scored off of pick and rolls with Stockton. I am sorry but I totally believe Al could do that.

Oh my Lord. He actually just said that.

edit: "Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed. "

What??? Coach's view is not the same as player's views. Thats idiotic.

no FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". You have no clue.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xGO3rWLbf4[/youtube]

[Ruhiel]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=852559
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Code: Select all

STARTERS   MIN   +/-
[u]Josh Smith, PF   39   +8[/u]
[b]Marvin Williams, SF   41   -5[/b]
Zaza Pachulia, C   38   +4
Joe Johnson, SG   38   +5
Jeff Teague, PG   37   +7
BENCH   MIN   +/-
Tracy McGrady, SF   7   -9
Kirk Hinrich, G   11   -11
Willie Green, SG   21   -8
Jannero Pargo, PG   4   +1
Ivan Johnson, F   6   -7

[Rip2137]

Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed.

From a basketball standpoint, Josh isn't a good offensive player, but neither is Horford. Difference is Horford seems to know his limitations while Josh seems to sulk if he isn't involved offensively.

Josh is a good scorer in the right conditions. David Lee is too quick for him to face up and take, which pretty much negates josh's game. Right now, he faces up bigger guys and uses his quickness to get closer to the rim and opperate from there. If he can't face up, he can't back anyone down. Again though, this shouldn't be a problem against Orlando or Chicago. maybe against Miami. This remains the list of teams I actually give a crap about beating.

I actually think Al is a good offensive player when I look at FG% rates and usual FT% rates and I think it is because he knows his limitations like you say. I actually am sure that Karl Malone had no post game. He made mid range jumpers and scored off of pick and rolls with Stockton. I am sorry but I totally believe Al could do that.

Oh my Lord. He actually just said that.

edit: "Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed. "

What??? Coach's view is not the same as player's views. Thats idiotic.

no FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". You have no clue.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xGO3rWLbf4[/youtube]

I bet that Rajon Rondo thinks the same. You want to poll all the guys that Josh knew in highschool as proof that everyone in the league thinks the same?

Wasn't Dwight his best man(or vice versa) again, you and your stupid videos you post that prove nothing.

Also, Al is probably the next head of the Players association. VOTED ON BY THE PLAYERS.

[Rip2137]

Yeah, clearly Horford is the guy you would build around here. He might not be the best player, but not FA is going to say "Man, I really want to go and play with Josh Smith". Al's 2 allstar selections by the coaches vs Josh not making it yet despite probably deserving it 3 times shows how the two are viewed.

From a basketball standpoint, Josh isn't a good offensive player, but neither is Horford. Difference is Horford seems to know his limitations while Josh seems to sulk if he isn't involved offensively.

Josh is a good scorer in the right conditions. David Lee is too quick for him to face up and take, which pretty much negates josh's game. Right now, he faces up bigger guys and uses his quickness to get closer to the rim and opperate from there. If he can't face up, he can't back anyone down. Again though, this shouldn't be a problem against Orlando or Chicago. maybe against Miami. This remains the list of teams I actually give a crap about beating.

I actually think Al is a good offensive player when I look at FG% rates and usual FT% rates and I think it is because he knows his limitations like you say. I actually am sure that Karl Malone had no post game. He made mid range jumpers and scored off of pick and rolls with Stockton. I am sorry but I totally believe Al could do that.

You are right, Malone had no real post game adn he really didn't have a face up game outside of one of the best midrange jumpers ever(I know, thats a huge except for). He didn't have the handles to get around guys and he couldn't score with his back to the basket. but what he did have was great hands and could really finish at the basket. Horford could be that with the right offense, but he doesn't finsh like Malone and his jumper, while good and probably the second best jumpshot on this team,, isn't near what Karl had(I do realize that you weren't saying he is as good as a hall of famer, just pointing out why it won't work AS well with Al.)

Josh is a horrible finisher with streaky outside game (he has completely abandoned his shot style from earlier this year and gone back to that crap he has had for years.) but he has better vision than Al Al is better offensively but not by much. They are both guys that are only scoring what they are because they are offensive mismatches most nights while playing out of position. Put Josh at the 3 or Al at the 4, their advantages disappear and it gets UGLY.

[myrak433]

so I am a joke. really because I don't agree with you. you are the one who believes that Teague and Horford can do no wrong. About last night game did you see JJ gaurding Ellis? why was that? did you see Ellis backing down Teague? I did. Teague still had a good game and I am not faulting him for this lost. but he did not play like a all star player either. and some of those passes were just flat out terrible. like when he passed it to Zaza under the goal. he pass the ball at his feet. you don't pass to a 7 footer at his feet. Especially when he is as un-athletic as Zaza is.

Look I know I have Josh Smith as my Avitar, but I am not overly in love with smith. I would trade anyone of the Hawks players if it makes them better. I know Josh takes too many bad shots........ I do watch the games. but you can't sit here and tell me that Teague played anything like D-Rose or Chris Paul..... hell even Rajon Rando. I would take anyone of them over Teague for us to be able to win it all now.

Now in saying that I do believe that Teague has a bright future, I just believe that he is about 2 or three years away. I don't want to wait that long. If that is the plan, However, lets just dump the whole team and only Keep Horford and Teague and just start over. I would be cool with that. Even though I don't really want to go through another rebuilding phase when I feel with a couple of moves we could really do something. I.E. get a point guard that is ready now (Rondo or Nash) and a starting calibre Center (Howard I wish) or Brook Lopez hell or even Kaman. I wouldn't care if we trade Smith or Horford to get Lopez, I feel we would have to move one of them. still wish we could put a package together and get Dwight. However, I would try to move Marvin in some kind of deal to get Kaman, maybe Marvin and a draft pick then move Teague in a package deal and go hard for Nash or Rondo and keep both Horford and Smith.

But I feel Superiorblogman would have a problem with that because we moved his beloved Jeff Teague, even if we make it all the way to the NBA finals. You still would be mad about moving Teague. Wouldn't you Superiorblogman? Tell the truth. you would!!! I know it!!!

If I am wrong tell me what would be an acceptable deal to move Teague. come up with a realistic one. I have came up with a few deals with the Hawks moving Smith. so who is really in love with players on the Hawks more so than wanting the Hawks to win?

Once again, you make no sense as usual. Joe was on Monta like 2 or 3 times the whole game because of switches. It is a team game and that sometimes happens you do understand? And as for the whole passing thing. You obviously did not watch the game as we all know. Teague should have had double digit assists, he got Zaza between 7-10 shots around the rim, and you want to talk about some bad pass. Please dude, Teague had 1 TO, that is a rarity for people like Nash, Paul, and so on because they would rather turn that MF'er over than not try to make plays. The fact is we need some finishers and stupid people like Josh need to quit trying to hide his current lack of finishing ability by trying to be a set up guy. The guy is done. He is dumb and his athleticism is gone. He is just trying to fool the Hawks or someone into another big contract just like Joe did. Replace Josh, Joe, and Marvin with guys that can finish on some level consistently and we will be fine. Lastly, yes I would take Rondo over Teague but that has nothing to do with your inaccurate posts. By the way, Rondo makes this team no better because he would still have no finishers and can't shoot a lick. The problem is not Teague and will not be fixed by a guy like Rondo because Joe and Josh are ball stoppers considering they both need to play with the ball before finishing. A guy like Stephen Curry would be better for this team than a PG like Rondo. Curry is just young Bibby someone who makes open shots after Joe and Josh have played with it all the possession.

you still have not said what and or who you would trade Teague for.

[Superiorblogman]

so I am a joke. really because I don't agree with you. you are the one who believes that Teague and Horford can do no wrong. About last night game did you see JJ gaurding Ellis? why was that? did you see Ellis backing down Teague? I did. Teague still had a good game and I am not faulting him for this lost. but he did not play like a all star player either. and some of those passes were just flat out terrible. like when he passed it to Zaza under the goal. he pass the ball at his feet. you don't pass to a 7 footer at his feet. Especially when he is as un-athletic as Zaza is.

Look I know I have Josh Smith as my Avitar, but I am not overly in love with smith. I would trade anyone of the Hawks players if it makes them better. I know Josh takes too many bad shots........ I do watch the games. but you can't sit here and tell me that Teague played anything like D-Rose or Chris Paul..... hell even Rajon Rando. I would take anyone of them over Teague for us to be able to win it all now.

Now in saying that I do believe that Teague has a bright future, I just believe that he is about 2 or three years away. I don't want to wait that long. If that is the plan, However, lets just dump the whole team and only Keep Horford and Teague and just start over. I would be cool with that. Even though I don't really want to go through another rebuilding phase when I feel with a couple of moves we could really do something. I.E. get a point guard that is ready now (Rondo or Nash) and a starting calibre Center (Howard I wish) or Brook Lopez hell or even Kaman. I wouldn't care if we trade Smith or Horford to get Lopez, I feel we would have to move one of them. still wish we could put a package together and get Dwight. However, I would try to move Marvin in some kind of deal to get Kaman, maybe Marvin and a draft pick then move Teague in a package deal and go hard for Nash or Rondo and keep both Horford and Smith.

But I feel Superiorblogman would have a problem with that because we moved his beloved Jeff Teague, even if we make it all the way to the NBA finals. You still would be mad about moving Teague. Wouldn't you Superiorblogman? Tell the truth. you would!!! I know it!!!

If I am wrong tell me what would be an acceptable deal to move Teague. come up with a realistic one. I have came up with a few deals with the Hawks moving Smith. so who is really in love with players on the Hawks more so than wanting the Hawks to win?

Once again, you make no sense as usual. Joe was on Monta like 2 or 3 times the whole game because of switches. It is a team game and that sometimes happens you do understand? And as for the whole passing thing. You obviously did not watch the game as we all know. Teague should have had double digit assists, he got Zaza between 7-10 shots around the rim, and you want to talk about some bad pass. Please dude, Teague had 1 TO, that is a rarity for people like Nash, Paul, and so on because they would rather turn that MF'er over than not try to make plays. The fact is we need some finishers and stupid people like Josh need to quit trying to hide his current lack of finishing ability by trying to be a set up guy. The guy is done. He is dumb and his athleticism is gone. He is just trying to fool the Hawks or someone into another big contract just like Joe did. Replace Josh, Joe, and Marvin with guys that can finish on some level consistently and we will be fine. Lastly, yes I would take Rondo over Teague but that has nothing to do with your inaccurate posts. By the way, Rondo makes this team no better because he would still have no finishers and can't shoot a lick. The problem is not Teague and will not be fixed by a guy like Rondo because Joe and Josh are ball stoppers considering they both need to play with the ball before finishing. A guy like Stephen Curry would be better for this team than a PG like Rondo. Curry is just young Bibby someone who makes open shots after Joe and Josh have played with it all the possession.

you still have not said what and or who you would trade Teague for.

You like making me look stupid by arguing with you don't you? You can't even really read man. I clearly say in my post that I would take Rondo for Teague but Rondo alone does not make this team better because Josh and Joe are such poor finishers of plays. Your just lost man. May your maker help you with your issues.

[Ruhiel]

Karl Malone was 6'10 265 lbs, ran the floor like a deer and had the length and coordination Horford doesn't have to play above the rim and score in the post.

His post moves were ugly but he got by on physical advantages Horford does not have.
To compare Horford to Karl Malone is a delusional joke that SBL made off of never watched the guy.
So here's a mix from a single game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72X2xGcz1Zc
That's really a sick joke that you need someone to tell you a 6'10 270lb muscular behemoth had effective post moves.
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RE: Also, Al is probably the next head of the Players association. VOTED ON BY THE PLAYERS.--
And so? I don't see anyone building around Derrick Fisher. lmao. While Fisher isn't as good as Horford that's NBAPA prove? Thay they'd want him to be their lawyer?

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/aldridge-vs-horford

"Overall Horford's just really solid to me. He knows what he's in the game for and never tries to do too much. Al always brings a level of consistency in everything he does. Just a tough dude. But his best asset is his comprehension of the game and his smarts. He's a team-first guy who knows how to play the game the right way. He's the kind of guy who's never going to get a lot of pub, but he's always going to be there. He'll be an All-Star for the next 10 years; I'm sure of it."
-- Kevin Garnett, PF, Boston Celtics

You also cant say that you put Josh at the 3 and he's a horrible finisher. Thats BS. Marvin is a horrible finisher.

[myrak433]

you still have not said what and or who you would trade Teague for.

You like making me look stupid by arguing with you don't you? You can't even really read man. I clearly say in my post that I would take Rondo for Teague but Rondo alone does not make this team better because Josh and Joe are such poor finishers of plays. Your just lost man. May your maker help you with your issues.


I don't have to make you look stupid. you are doing a fine job all by yourself. and as far as issues go. don't worry about me. you need to worry about yourself. and Rondo would absolutely make this team better, because we would have more dripple penetration which would cause defenses to collapse making it easier for Josh, Marvin, JJ, and Horford to score. you may be dummer than I thought.

[Ruhiel]

Personally I'm not liking Rondo either. Defenses collapsing for a Josh/Rondo jumper. No Thanks.

[Rip2137]

Jeff Teague is just fine at Dribble penetration. The problem is when he dishes, the guys can't hit open jumpers and they can't score inside. So basically, if we trade for Rondo we have the same issues only with a worse 3 point shooter.

He is a better defender than Jeff though, but defense on the opposing point has REALLY not been our problem.

Don't get me wrong, i would do that trade too, just because Rondo is better than Teague, but that would't fix a problem.

[Superiorblogman]

Jeff Teague is just fine at Dribble penetration. The problem is when he dishes, the guys can't hit open jumpers and they can't score inside. So basically, if we trade for Rondo we have the same issues only with a worse 3 point shooter.

He is a better defender than Jeff though, but defense on the opposing point has REALLY not been our problem.

Don't get me wrong, i would do that trade too, just because Rondo is better than Teague, but that would't fix a problem.

Correct and easy to see unless your eyes are closed by love or hate