Apologies I missed this reply back when.
Pimpwerx wrote:I can't reply to all of that.
1. We will always have a personnel advantage over other teams, but that doesn't diminish Spo's role in this project. 9-8 should make this abundantly clear to you. These pieces need guidance, and they need to buy into the system, otherwise it is nothing more than a .500 team, like the Knicks.
Having by far the best talent in the league definitely diminishes the accomplishments of the coach. It has happened to far more accomplished coaches than Spo (Jackson, Auerbach, even Riley). If you have the most talent you
should be the best team in the league. You think it wouldn't be a bigger accomplishment for Spo to have this same level of play with the Bobcat's roster? If he did that I would say he's the best coach of all time.
And it would take a HORRIBLE coach to make us into a .500 team. You're making it seem like an average coach would take Lebron/Bosh/Wade and make them into a .500 team when the reality is most coaches would have accomplished about the same and some might have even done better.
Lebron has been on teams playing this well over a whole season with less supporting talent with a coach who you have said sucks. So how is this a job that only Spo can do?
The system works, as evidence by us being tops in both categories. Stats don't tell the full story of our defense. When the guys play with effort, you get results like we saw against the Knicks. They were coasting earlier in the season. That's not the system's fault, that's the players. Our defense is easily 1st or 2nd best in the league, stats be damned. This will be borne-out repeatedly come playoff time.
Except we're not tops in both categories no matter what BS you want to pull, facts you want to ignore or rankings you want to make up.
We're nowhere close to first or second. You can always tell someone is going to make up some **** when they say things like "stats be damned". You're right we should completely ignore facts and just base all of our information on your gut.
And a team not playing hard is a factor of coaching.
Oh yeah, D'Antoni isn't coaching defense, the new assistant coach they brought on is. Thank him and the easiest schedule in the league for their inflated defensive rating. That team is gonna get flattened in the playoffs. I think even using D'Antoni as an example undermines your argument. D'Antoni is in no way, shape or form a good coach. How was the offense that bad before Lin? You mean a good offensive coach can't adjust his gameplan for his personnel? I still can't believe you keep mentioning him.
I mentioned him because the Knicks were brought up not because I think he is a good coach.
And again he's had two 60+ win and 7+ SRS teams with less talent than Spo has now, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
If he is horrible then it looks like a horrible coach can be carried by good players.
I'm glad he is able to integrate his assistants well, that's a good quality to have.
I'm gonna need a citation for the Knicks playing the easiest defensive schedule in the league. Sorry I don't take "facts" without any sources from people who say "stats be damned" because they usually make things up.
2. Whatever. I'm wrong about the DPOY thing, if he really finished 2nd in voting. I did not know that. However, that Cavs defense was not as good as ours. Stats again don't tell the full story. We shut teams down with our personnel to a level that hasn't been seen since the Bulls. The system is designed for our personnel, which is why Joel can be an effective starter.
Joel can be an effective starter because we have above average rebounding and offense at every other position to make up for his shortcomings not because of our system.
And yeah he really finished 2nd and 4th one year and he was lower last year. Why would I make that up when anyone can check it easily on a computer?
I agree that stats don't tell the full story but neither does your faulty memory and biased analysis. Not to mention I've seen you be factually wrong in this very thread. So why should I just trust your random opinion?
Especially if you are going to spout nonsense like we shut teams down to a level not seen since the Bulls.
Ben Wallace Pistons? Garnett Celtics? Duncan's Spurs? I'm not even sure this is the best HEAT defense since the Bulls.
I'm assuming you meant Jordan's Bulls but you could have just as easily said Rose's Bulls because they are better than us at defense.
You're not budging on the Bosh thing, but whatever. I'm right on that. The perception of Bosh was not that of a good defender. He wasn't judged on camps, tryout and the Olympics. That's ridiculous. That's based on a small sample size, and non-NBA competition. He was judged on his Raptor days, and he was deemed a poor defender. Don't try that revisionist history.
Again you were completely wrong about Lebron's defensive reputation, don't you think its possible that you could be less than right about Bosh's? You somehow missed Lebron being 2nd in DPoY isn't it possible that you could miss Bosh being thought of as a good defender?
You're so sure of yourself, but you were just as sure when you said the Lebron thing.
“Whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and wiser people are full of doubts”
And the tryouts were against other NBA players trying to get on the Olympic team. The Olympics are kind of a big deal and players were trying really hard to make the team. Coach K thought Bosh was a good defender from there.
I will agree with the other poster who said perhaps uninformed fans thought Bosh was a bad defender.
Ditto the post-game integration into the offense. Having two wings with overlapping skillsets was supposed to be an issue. Why else would anyone dream of trading Wade or Lebron for someone like Dwight? Spo's job wasn't easy, but you refuse to give him credit. Meh.
Spo's job is the easiest coaching job in the league. EVERY coach would switch talent with him. He has the most talent in the league.
And when have I refused to give Spo credit? I just refuse to give him as much credit as some others do.
3. You ignore what I said. I explained exactly why it was difficult. Pau, Drew and Kobe are easy to coach too. You just can't split the ball 3 ways without compromise, and that's not easy to get superstars to do.
Kobe is NOT easy to coach. Phil Jackson literally wrote a book about how Kobe was so hard to coach. And Lebron/Wade/Bosh are a lot better and better passers than Pau/Drew/Kobe.
You are being intentionally obtuse if you are saying that Kobe is easy to coach or an unselfish teammate.
4. You devalue all Spo's efforts. You assume managing superstar egos on and off the court is easy, despite the 9-8 start that looked anything but easy. You marginalize the impact of his offensive and defensive systems despite there being an obvious difference in performance when the players try and don't try. If our defense was great just because we had personnel, then they should be able to maintain a consistent level of performance from game to game. However, we see that when the team doesn't make the effort on its closeouts, the defense can go from suffocating to porous. Our defense has everyone moving on a string, and that is a system, not a magical collaboration of talent. Without the system and the discipline to execute the rotations and trust one another, we are not a good defense.
The thing is that 9-8 start was Spo too. You keep bringing it up as some evidence in favor of Spo but that's him.
Again players trying or not trying is part of a coach's job.
And again your giving too much credit to "the system". Lebron was on better defensive team with less talent and a crappy coach. There are several better defensive teams than us with less defensive talent this year.
Neither of those things point to a system defense. They point to us having really good defensive players.
Lebron was 2nd in the DPoY and on several elite defenses before he got here. Battier and Joel are also really good defenders. Wade and Bosh are both good defenders with or without Spo and they are both super athletic. Plus we also have Haslem. When Chalmers is only the 7th best defensive player in your rotation you have a lot of good defenders.
We have more defensive talent than anyone else in the league and yet there are better defenses than us out there with less talent. Something is dragging us down a tiny bit but its not our talent.
5. Manage your expectations better then. You are disappointed we lose in 6 games in the Finals with a team of:
Bron, Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Anthony
Injured Miller, Injured Haslem
Inactive Pittman
Almost Inactive JJ
Ancient Bag-of-fouls Juwan, Ancient Bag-of-suck Bibby
Retired Z, Magloire (should retire), Dampier (should retire)
Waived House
My expectations are fine. We were the heavy favorites to win the title last year and we had the most talent in the league. We should have won the title last year. We had our whole starting lineup this year on the team last year. It's Spo's fault for starting Bibby in so many games instead of Chalmers. We also had Haslem and Miller by the Finals.
And either way we had a better team than the Mavs.
If you say you weren't expecting us to beat the Mavs than you are probably a liar. Again should I go dig up some old posts by you? I'm sure I can find some high confidence posts from you from after the Bulls series or in the Mavs threads before the finals. Didn't you pick us to beat the Mavs last year? I think you did.
That all-star cast should have won a title, I know, but they didn't. However, they came up just a hair short, and this season look like they're gonna blow teams out of the water. More-importantly though, Spo wasn't the reason for the loss in the Finals. His coaching was more than adequate to win the championship. If Lebron makes his averages, we're fine. If I will blame him in the Finals, it's not getting the team ready for the Dallas zone. However, no one was ready for their zone last summer.
Do you think the Mavs had the better team last year? If you did at the time then you could have made a killing because they were almost 2-1 underdogs against us because all the sharp bettors in Vegas were picking our all-star cast to win the title.
And how did we come just a hair short? We didn't even force a game 7 against an inferior team.
I don't blame Spo for the Final's loss but I think he contributed and he certainly didn't outcoach Carlisle by any stretch of the imagination. I also think if the Coaches had switched teams Carlisle would have still won.
And yeah we should have been ready for the zone. They killed us with it during the regular season too (I think we shot less than 30% against it)
Your expectations are out of wack, and there is nothing Spo can do to convince you other than win a championship. So maybe save this sort of pessimism for later in the season. Spo's been great this season. He just finished winning a COTM. If that's not gonna reassure you, then nothing will until the end. Your criticism of Spo is no different from the criticism of Lebron in that regard. Both are in a winless situation until they win it all. PEACE.
My expectations are in line with the general public, sportsbooks, most analysts and almost all Heat fans, members of the team and members of the organization.
You're right if Spo fails to win again then there isn't anything else that he can do to convince me that he is a great coach. He has the most talent in the league by far. He should win it all. Even winning one title when you have by far the most talent in the league isn't that great of an accomplishment.
It doesn't take a great coach to have a good team with this roster. I also find it funny that you put stock into a COTM but disregard actual stats and facts. And no a COTM means almost nothing to me. I already am reassured because we have the most talent in the league. I'm counting on that to lead us to a title. Also I'm not criticizing Spo. Not thinking someone is GREAT doesn't make it criticism. PEACE
Your emotions fuel the narratives that you create. You see what you want to see. You believe what you want to believe. You ascribe meaning when it is not there. You create significance when it is not present.
