Charlotte Hornets - The Brand Returns!!!

[SWedd523]

he said until they started winning he wasn't interested.

I guarantee you more people are like that than these silly name changers.


The novelty of changing back to the Hornets will wear off in 2-3 years unless the team starts winning and we'd be RIGHT back in the same situation we are now. Seems like the name is the easiest excuse for why people don't like the team, forgetting a few larger issues

thats the thing, if we change the name + drafting a franchise player and start having a solid foundation for winning in 2-3 years that = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, changing the name will multiply any type of monetary success the bobcats have in the near future

Or we could just...... draft a franchise player and start having a solid foundation. The product on the floor is much more valuable than the name of the team. You don't still hear people bitching about "The Thunder" do you? Nope, because they drafted a superstar.

You know as well as I do that fans would come out to watch the team if we drafted the next LeBron or Durant. That would be too much for people to resist and they'd get over the name.


But I can just imagine what will happen if we change the name and still suck:

"They can't even get their name right! Time to contract!"

"They should be more worried about winning than changing the name! Let's contract them!"

"They couldn't win regardless of what their name is! Stern should contract them!"

[Stun704]

Or we could just...... draft a franchise player and start having a solid foundation. The product on the floor is much more valuable than the name of the team. You don't still hear people bitching about "The Thunder" do you? Nope, because they drafted a superstar.

You know as well as I do that fans would come out to watch the team if we drafted the next LeBron or Durant. That would be too much for people to resist and they'd get over the name.


But I can just imagine what will happen if we change the name and still suck:

"They can't even get their name right! Time to contract!"

"They should be more worried about winning than changing the name! Let's contract them!"

"They couldn't win regardless of what their name is! Stern should contract them!"

I agree, I'll support the bobcats regardless of what the name is aslong as they're in charlotte. my reasoning for the name change is more symbolic and that I just don't like the aesthetics of the name, the Hornets were my childhood team & I feel that changing the name to the hornets or something completely different such as the flight symbolizes a rebirth and an end to the dark era that was charlotte professional basketball.


Sure all of those reasons can be seen as petty, and frankly i'm just voicing my opinion, regardless of what the name is i'll support the team, it'd just be nice for a change to go along with us potentially drafting a franchise player in june

[captaincrunk]

You could have the same success and save several million dollars (and the loss of face) by not changing the name.

it cost 2 million dollars to change the name, that money would be easily recouped in the broadening of the market share. You just don't understand that there are ignorant people in charlotte that will no matter how much success the bobcats see, they won't support them because they simply aren't the hornets( these aren't just some random rednecks either) some are former season ticket holders, so indeed there is money to be made

They're saying 4 million. Which is twice as much as you're expecting. Also, the team blows. Maybe that's why?

[dmutombo321]

You just don't understand that there are ignorant people in charlotte that will no matter how much success the bobcats see, they won't support them because they simply aren't the hornets( these aren't just some random rednecks either) some are former season ticket holders, so indeed there is money to be made

Stun is absolutely right about this and it is one of the things I touched on a couple pages back.

Most of us on this board are in a unique sub-section of very knowledgable extremely interested fans. We in no way typify the average attendee of a Bobcats game or any NBA game for that matter. On a given night, three quarters of the folks in attendance dont know nor care to know much about either team on the floor and are just there for the atmosphere and to have a good time.

This was just as true when the Hornets were here. 70% of the building was filled with fairweather fans, some of whom couldnt even tell you the difference between a charge and a travel who were there more for Hugo, the Honey Bees and the Hive Atmosphere and branding.

They would cheer on the team when they were winning but they certainly werent there for the on the court product which was pretty bad for many of the 7 years of consecutive sellouts.

I know several former season ticket holders from the Hornets who can count the # of Bobcats games they've been to on one hand. They just say the experience is not the same.

These are the types of fairweather fans who will return with renewed interest and there were multiple folks of the 100+ who commented on fowlers article who openly admit to being part of this group. Some even shockingly admitted to being part of the anti-arena crowd of the late 90s and still yearned for the Hornets branding switch.

Unless you're a Charlottean who lived here during the 1990s, its hard to comprehend what the Hornets name means to the city of Charlotte. Having followed both teams since their respective inceptions, I can say that, basketball product aside, the atmopshere and experience of a Hornets game, even in one of the noncompetitive years after Shinn had alienated the city, was far superior to that of any Bobcats game I've attended.

Changing a theme/name isnt going to make the team any more competitive. Basketball operations is a completely seperate subject. However, a name change back to the Hornets will help with renewed fan interest locally, increased attendance and put an unprecedented spotlight on the franchise.

[captaincrunk]

This was just as true when the Hornets were here. 70% of the building was filled with fairweather fans, some of whom couldnt even tell you the difference between a charge and a travel who were there more for Hugo, the Honey Bees and the Hive Atmosphere and branding.

They would cheer on the team when they were winning but they certainly werent there for the on the court product which was pretty bad for many of the 7 years of consecutive sellouts.

I know several former season ticket holders from the Hornets who can count the # of Bobcats games they've been to on one hand. They just say the experience is not the same.

If the name got their rocks off they're pretty easy to please.

These are the types of fairweather fans who will return with renewed interest and there were multiple folks of the 100+ who commented on fowlers article who openly admit to being part of this group. Some even shockingly admitted to being part of the anti-arena crowd of the late 90s and still yearned for the Hornets branding switch.

Unless you're a Charlottean who lived here during the 1990s, its hard to comprehend what the Hornets name means to the city of Charlotte. Having followed both teams since their respective inceptions, I can say that, basketball product aside, the atmopshere and experience of a Hornets game, even in one of the noncompetitive years after Shinn had alienated the city, was far superior to that of any Bobcats game I've attended.

And what the jizzing jumping jazz guitarist does that have to do with the word Hornets?

Changing a theme/name isnt going to make the team any more competitive. Basketball operations is a completely seperate subject. However, a name change back to the Hornets will help with renewed fan interest locally, increased attendance and put an unprecedented spotlight on the franchise.

None of what you said about the atmosphere, the showmanship, etc., was a name.

[dmutombo321]

If the name got their rocks off they're pretty easy to please.

Indeed they are. That's why they're called fairweather fans. I personally have little in common with them because my primary concern is basketball above all else but their $ spends just as well as anyone else's and they represented a large block of season ticket holders who the bobcats never captured.

I'd much rather have a Bobcats team that competes in the East on a yearly basis to a Hornets team that spends time in the cellar. But because branding and court performance are mutually exclusive, I'll go ahead and support the prospect of re-acquiring the higher value brand which has history here and which most native Charlotteans prefer while rooting for the FO to continue to improve the roster at the same time.

None of what you said about the atmosphere, the showmanship, etc., was a name.

Everything I described is what Charlotteans now associate with the Hornet's brand - That is where the value lies.

[captaincrunk]

If the name got their rocks off they're pretty easy to please.

Indeed they are. That's why they're called fairweather fans. I personally have little in common with them because my primary concern is basketball above all else but their $ spends just as well as anyone else's and they represented a large block of season ticket holders who the bobcats never captured.

If they're easy to please, any distraction would work. You can't be both stubborn and easy to please. So, what's it going to be? Are you wrong, or are you wrong?

I'd much rather have a Bobcats team that competes in the East on a yearly basis to a Hornets team that spends time in the cellar. But because branding and court performance are mutually exclusive, I'll go ahead and support the prospect of re-acquiring the higher value brand which has history here and which most native Charlotteans prefer while rooting for the FO to continue to improve the roster at the same time.

Sure they're exclusive, but we pay for players and staff with the same money we pay players with.

None of what you said about the atmosphere, the showmanship, etc., was a name.

Everything I described is what Charlotteans now associate with the Hornet's brand - That is where the value lies.

If you bring the brand back, and they go to the game and it still sucks then what? They left because of the lack of something. I think that something goes far beyond a name.

[SWedd523]

The general atmosphere of a basketball game has vastly changed over the past 5-10 years in every arena, not just in Charlotte.

[captaincrunk]

The general atmosphere of a basketball game has vastly changed over the past 5-10 years in every arena, not just in Charlotte.

This is true, but I wouldn't mind breaking that trend if possible.

[SWedd523]

The general atmosphere of a basketball game has vastly changed over the past 5-10 years in every arena, not just in Charlotte.

This is true, but I wouldn't mind breaking that trend if possible.

Point being that simply changing the name back to Hornets isn't going to magically enhance the game night experience or return us to the days of the Hive

[dmutombo321]

If they're easy to please, any distraction would work. You can't be both stubborn and easy to please.

I think the previous post was self explanatory but to elaborate, Charlottean casual fans would be easy to please insofar as giving them back the popular brand that they nostalgically yearn for. In the context of Charlotte, the Hornets brand has specific nostalgic and historical significance so no, any old “distraction” would not work– ask Fowler to write an article advocating a name change to the Charlotte Spirit and see what kind of popular support that gets in the comments section.

Sure they're exclusive, but we pay for players and staff with the same money we pay players with.

This is an over-simplification. A re-branding investment is completely independent of player salaries (an investment that would pay for itself many times over with merchandising boon). As a practical matter, what we use to pay player salaries is governed only by the confines of the collective bargaining agreement. In other words, despite being one of the more cash poor owners in the league, Jordan can still easily write a $4 million check to re-brand and still sign a FA to a $4 million contract at the same time. He’s not limited to one or the other.

If you bring the brand back, and they go to the game and it still sucks then what?

As discussed at length, the early Hornets teams were terrible just as the Bobcats are now. People went for the atmosphere and the atmosphere fair-weather fans went to experience, to a great extent, was the brand.

This would not be rocket science to replicate. Simply re-deploy the old uniforms / logo, the mascot, Hugo, re-adopt the Court design, the white zombie instrumental player intros, the buzzing sound effects and a couple time out staples like the Super Hugo dunk show and locals would return in force.

Our FO still has alot of work to do on the basketball end but this work needs to be addressed either way.

[captaincrunk]

The general atmosphere of a basketball game has vastly changed over the past 5-10 years in every arena, not just in Charlotte.

This is true, but I wouldn't mind breaking that trend if possible.

Point being that simply changing the name back to Hornets isn't going to magically enhance the game night experience or return us to the days of the Hive

Precisely, it's a fools substitute that not even the fool will be fooled by.

and about the B.S. claiming the brand was everything, the clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes. This analogy applies directly. It wasn't the name, it was the things they did. Whatever those things were.

[dmutombo321]

and about the B.S. claiming the brand was everything, the clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes. This analogy applies directly. It wasn't the name, it was the things they did. Whatever those things were.

It must have been the exemplary basketball and 25 win per year average during their first 5 seasons that fueled the sellout streak.

[SWedd523]

and about the B.S. claiming the brand was everything, the clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes. This analogy applies directly. It wasn't the name, it was the things they did. Whatever those things were.

It must have been the exemplary basketball and 25 win per year average during their first 5 seasons that fueled the sellout streak.

Technically they averaged 28 wins over their first 5 years, but we're getting a bit arbitrary with that.

And Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Muggy Bogues, Kendall Gill, Rex Chapman, Dell Curry, JR Reid, etc. surely didn't hurt fan attendance.

[captaincrunk]

and about the B.S. claiming the brand was everything, the clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes. This analogy applies directly. It wasn't the name, it was the things they did. Whatever those things were.

It must have been the exemplary basketball and 25 win per year average during their first 5 seasons that fueled the sellout streak.

If you truly think that the name was the cause, then just say so. Just admit that thousands of people came to stare at some letters, wheel of fortune style.

[fatlever]

there is no point in debating this topic as if there is a right or wrong answer. stats or facts dont apply. this is 100% a subjective topic. its about how you feel. you can't dictate how someone should feel about something.

this topic has to be a total nightmare for the bobcats right now. there is no good solution for them.

if they come out in favor of a name change to pacify the name change supporters they run the risk of devaluing their current brand. they also run the risk of getting in trouble with the league by talking about something like this while the hornets still have that name. there is nothing the bobcats can say about this until the day comes (if it comes) when the hornets change their name.

if they come out and publicly state they will never consider a name change then they further alienate this growing group of locals who are pushing for a change.

its a lose lose situation for the bobcats right now. about the only thing they could say if asked would be some generic statement like "the hornets name belongs to another franchise. we are the charlotte bobcats and we are proud to represent the city of charlotte and the fans". a classic, nothing statement.

i really dont know how i feel about this. i love the bobcats every bit as much as i ever loved the hornets. but i would be lying if i said i had the same connection to the name bobcats as i did to the name hornets. the name hornets had history here. charlotte is the hornets nest. its the cities nickname. it makes sense. however, i have also spent the past 10 years hating everything related to the name hornets for obvious reasons. i dont know if i could ever get over the pain that was done. things will never be like they were with that name.

and also, i want the world to see the bobcats succeed. if we drop the name and change to the hornets, everyone will always remember the bobcats as losers. that name will never have anything good associated with it, which would be a shame.

anyway, the topic is rather pointless at this point in time. if the new orleans changes its name, then we can seriously talk about this.

[dmutombo321]

If you truly think that the name was the cause, then just say so. Just admit that thousands of people came to stare at some letters, wheel of fortune style.

Had the team still been called the Hornets but elected to charge $200 for general admission, kept the arena temperature at a constant 95 degrees, mandated a 250lb minimum weight limit for the Honey Bees and played Lawrence Welk music during timeouts, the team probably would not have had much success.

So no – a name is not the end all and nobody every claimed it was.

But yes Crunk. The name and branding was and is important.

The city residents absolutely detested the original proposed name “The Charlotte Spirit” and howled in protest because everyone hated it. The owners wisely realized they better listen to their prospective fan base and held a public pole with multiple options to choose from. The Spirit was still an option, I remember the Knights were in there too and there were several others as well.

The Hornets prevailed in a landslide.

Do you honestly think that Charlotte Spirit swag would have been number one in NBA paraphernalia sales for several years as Hornets garb was?

The Hornets were a nationwide apparel hit not just because of the name but the brand as a whole (the logo, uniforms, popular color scheme, mascot, etc)..

I mentioned several pages ago that I view novelty as one of the primary factors for the teams success, something that can never be recaptured, but that branding and atmosphere were also important.

The brand has even more value now due to the 14 year history with the city and fond memories locals have.

No matter what your opinion or objection its empirically evident that most of the locals still feel this way about the brand and if it ever does come available and the local public is again polled for a re-brand, I’ll wager that they will again favor the Hornets in a landslide.

Technically they averaged 28 wins over their first 5 years, but we're getting a bit arbitrary with that.

And Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Muggy Bogues, Kendall Gill, Rex Chapman, Dell Curry, JR Reid, etc. surely didn't hurt fan attendance.

Actually you were the one getting a bit arbitrary . I didn’t take the time to google the exact number but I’ll take you’re word for it. Whether it was 25 wins or 32 wins, the point still remains, they fielded some pretty bad teams..

I definitely agree with you about LJ and Zo – they were both Charlotte’s first all star players and marketing phenomenons. They didn’t come around until seasons 4 and 5 respectively however and the rest of those guys you mention were not elite basketball players by any stretch. The city embraced them because they had embraced the team. The fact Bogues was the shortest player in the league and JR Reid had local college ties made them compelling figures but the same could be said for Earl Boykins and Sean May.

if they come out in favor of a name change to pacify the name change supporters they run the risk of devaluing their current brand. they also run the risk of getting in trouble with the league by talking about something like this while the hornets still have that name.

You’re right. The Bobcats have played this tight lipped as they absolutely should since there is technically no name available. This whole thread is predicated on the possible albeit hypothetical idea that the new NO owners may jettison the name.

if we drop the name and change to the hornets, everyone will always remember the bobcats as losers. that name will never have anything good associated with it, which would be a shame.

If a re-branding did occur back to the Hornets, I don’t think it would be like disavowing that the Bobcats ever existed: They would be part of the city’s history just the same. They would update the Arena wall’s Charlotte Basketball time line (which already acknowledges the Hornets Era) to include the Bobcats Era. Several years down the road, they could have some retro nights where the team wears bobcats gear much like Washington does periodically with Bullets throwbacks or the Cougars Jerseys Charlotte wears now on occasion.


I’ll end my 2 cents for the time being by saying this

The bottom line is that re-acquiring the Hornets brand is in no way going to be a panacea for the ills of this franchise and it has zero bearing on the basketball operations end. However, shallow or not, it would serve to reignite interest among a lot of local fair-weather fans, boost ticket sales, rise the profile of the team via some national media spot light and markedly increase apparel and merchandise sales.

A small segment of people who have known nothing but the Bobcats will also be turned off, as we have seen on this board.

As with any decision made, basketball or branding wise, a franchise cant please everyone but should aim to please as many prospective local sponsors and ticket buyers as they can.

[captaincrunk]

things will never be like they were with that name.

This is what I expect would be the case for most individuals. I think that perhaps a new, identifiable and relatable name would be a better solution (but still not as good as remaining the bobcats in my opinion). The queens is obviously not a solution because of the word's association with the gay community, but I'm sure other things would be possible. Someone mentioned the Carolina Cougars name, which is pretty similar and might be more inclusive for the local (and not quite as local but still south west/carolinas) fans.

But as an outsider I do think that returning to the Hornets name would be very disappointing. Maybe not worse than the Bobcats name, but it will not be what the supporters want from it.

[SWedd523]

things will never be like they were with that name.

This is what I expect would be the case for most individuals. I think that perhaps a new, identifiable and relatable name would be a better solution (but still not as good as remaining the bobcats in my opinion). The queens is obviously not a solution because of the word's association with the gay community, but I'm sure other things would be possible. Someone mentioned the Carolina Cougars name, which is pretty similar and might be more inclusive for the local (and not quite as local but still south west/carolinas) fans.

But as an outsider I do think that returning to the Hornets name would be very disappointing. Maybe not worse than the Bobcats name, but it will not be what the supporters want from it.

I repeat:

Carolina BBQs
Carolina Tobaccos
Carolina Appalachians
Carolina Rebels

Charlotte Queens
Charlotte Wells Fargos

You could also throw in:

Carolina Swamp Foxes
Carolina Hugos
Carolina Dixiecrats
Carolina Bootleggers

Charlotte Royals
Charlotte Evangelists

[captaincrunk]

If you truly think that the name was the cause, then just say so. Just admit that thousands of people came to stare at some letters, wheel of fortune style.

Had the team still been called the Hornets but elected to charge $200 for general admission, kept the arena temperature at a constant 95 degrees, mandated a 250lb minimum weight limit for the Honey Bees and played Lawrence Welk music during timeouts, the team probably would not have had much success.

So no – a name is not the end all and nobody every claimed it was.

But yes Crunk. The name and branding was and is important.

Then branding and the name aren't quite the same thing. I think a lot of what you're putting under the umbrella of branding could be accomplished with a different name, but the same creativity and effort it took the first time.

The city residents absolutely detested the original proposed name “The Charlotte Spirit” and howled in protest because everyone hated it. The owners wisely realized they better listen to their prospective fan base and held a public pole with multiple options to choose from. The Spirit was still an option, I remember the Knights were in there too and there were several others as well.

The Hornets prevailed in a landslide.

Do you honestly think that Charlotte Spirit swag would have been number one in NBA paraphernalia sales for several years as Hornets garb was?

The Hornets were a nationwide apparel hit not just because of the name but the brand as a whole (the logo, uniforms, popular color scheme, mascot, etc)..

But we were never the Charlotte Spirit! Also, those polls are self selected, meaning only the people who care about the outcome bother to go vote for them.

I mentioned several pages ago that I view novelty as one of the primary factors for the teams success, something that can never be recaptured, but that branding and atmosphere were also important.

The brand has even more value now due to the 14 year history with the city and fond memories locals have.

I'm not seeing how this contradicts what I've been saying.

No matter what your opinion or objection

You sound like a priest now...

its empirically evident that most of the locals still feel this way about the brand and if it ever does come available and the local public is again polled for a re-brand, I’ll wager that they will again favor the Hornets in a landslide.

And yet, the poll will still be self selected, still not directly equate to money in the bank, and be asked to mostly ignorant people. (most people are ignorant, not charlotte fans in particular.)