Tyreke On Trade Block

[PaKwAn]

I would trade Jimmer and Reke for Hill and George on the Pacers.

George is untouchable. Pacer fans would laugh at this deal.

What's so special about George Hill?

He was talking about paul george...

[deadenddude]

He was talking about paul george...

My bad. But the question still applies, what's so special about Paul George, then? It seems like the Kings have been so bad at SF for so long that Kings fans get overexcited at the prospect of any starting caliber SF.

[PaKwAn]

He was talking about paul george...

My bad. But the question still applies, what's so special about Paul George, then? It seems like the Kings have been so bad at SF for so long that Kings fans get overexcited at the prospect of any starting caliber SF.

Paul george is a very nice player.. I like watching him play and what he brings to his team... Kid can shoot,defend and do alot of good things... If he ever gets it, he can be scary good.. He has tons of potential as well...

[deadenddude]

Paul george is a very nice player.. I like watching him play and what he brings to his team... Kid can shoot,defend and do alot of good things... If he ever gets it, he can be scary good.. He has tons of potential as well...

Maybe so but the Kings already have three or four "ton of potential" guys on the team, two of them being Tyreke and Jimmer. I don't want to move them out to bring in another potential guy. I'm honestly sick of waiting on potential. If we move one of our young building blocks, I want a proven player like Rondo, Parker, Granger, etc. in return.

[PaKwAn]

Paul george is a very nice player.. I like watching him play and what he brings to his team... Kid can shoot,defend and do alot of good things... If he ever gets it, he can be scary good.. He has tons of potential as well...

Maybe so but the Kings already have three or four "ton of potential" guys on the team, two of them being Tyreke and Jimmer. I don't want to move them out to bring in another potential guy. I'm honestly sick of waiting on potential. If we move one of our young building blocks, I want a proven player like Rondo, Parker, Granger, etc. in return.

Iv'e been on the trade reke for a nice package in a long time now... I like the rondo trade.. Iffy on the parker trade and no thanks on the granger trade.. I dont mind having iggy as well...

[MagicJunkie2]

Evans for Ryan Anderson?

[pillwenney]

I still don't buy Isaiah at all as a starter. That's not a bad thing. He's still an awesome, awesome piece to have around on your team. Think JJ Barea in the playoffs last year, but more consistently at that level. That's kinda how I see Isaiah. Only I think Isaiah can be better defensively and as a playmaker.

Still not ideally a starter though.

[boogie-reke]

I agree, Isiah idealy is a Bobby Jackson type.. problem is right now we can't afford him to be.

[boogie-reke]

Evans for Ryan Anderson?

If we really want him we can pay for him in the summer.

[Wolfay]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

[deadenddude]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

Personally, I'm fine with IT as a starter assuming he doesn't level off and come back to earth at some point. But if I had a chance to get Rondo, I'd do it without giving a second's thought to IT.

[Wolfay]

Rondo only makes sense if we have guys around him who can hit jumpers, which we don't. Rondo works in Boston because he has jump shooting legend Ray Allen next to him, and Paul Pierce ain't no slouch either.

Isaiah is working well here not only because he's a competent playmaker, but also because he's a competent shooter. Shooting and spacing have been problems with the Kings for a long time now, and Isaiah has been a major force in reversing that.

[deNIEd]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

I completely agree.

I don't understand why some people can't see Isaiah as a starter, but can see Jimmer as a starter. Since he's been given playing time, has he provided us any doubts of him not being a quality starter? Have we seen any real flaws in his game or major weaknesses? I guess you could say his height, but look at Lawson...he's been fairly successful.

However, Isaiah would not be a reason I would not pull the trigger on obtaining a star PG such as Rondo.


But with the playing time he's been given, Isaiah has shown more potential of being a quality starting PG than Tyreke or Jimmer.

[pillwenney]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

I completely agree.

I don't understand why some people can't see Isaiah as a starter, but can see Jimmer as a starter. Since he's been given playing time, has he provided us any doubts of him not being a quality starter? Have we seen any real flaws in his game or major weaknesses? I guess you could say his height, but look at Lawson...he's been fairly successful.

However, Isaiah would not be a reason I would not pull the trigger on obtaining a star PG such as Rondo.


But with the playing time he's been given, Isaiah has shown more potential of being a quality starting PG than Tyreke or Jimmer.

I agree. Because neither of them is a starting PG in the NBA either. Using them as a basis for comparison is therefore kind of pointless.

Lawson is bigger than Isaiah (enough to make some difference) and has more transcendent speed offensively. He's a one man fast break and a more dynamic playmaker.

I mean really, this has nothing to do with believing in Isaiah over all though. There's nothing wrong with being a supersub. Often the supersub is more important to the teams success than the starter at the position.

If you have Eric Snow and Bobby Jackson as your PGs, you start Eric Snow and bring Bobby Jackson off the bench? Is Bobby the better player there? Of course. Easily. But Snow is more suitable as a starting PG and Bobby is more suited as a sparkplug coming off the bench.

Looking purely at defense since he's been starting, I think we've seen some very clear problems. Stuckey, Irving and Paul all showed where his weaknesses will be. He can play with all the heart he wants. His size is still going to be an issue. Bigger PGs will more often be able to simply shoot over him and outmuscle him. If we're in some kind of 7 game series down the line against a strong PG, we'll be screwed--especially with a Thomas/Thornton/Evans starting wing rotation, because Tyreke has to guard the SF there and Thornton has to guard the SG.

As for offensive fit, it's nice that he has the outside shot, but Isaiah really isn't a pure enough PG for my liking with our group. He's the purest one we've got, but he still takes a lot of very questionable shots and we really, REALLY can't afford yet another guy that does this. Now of course, the alternatives aren't very good right now, and that's why I don't have huge problems with Isaiah starting right now. But he's still not a long term solution there.

And maybe the shot selection will fix itself with age to some extent. The real thing with Isaiah and his future as a supersub is that he just plays like one. He makes high energy plays, timely shots and sometimes takes bad shots. But over all, what he really is as a player is a boost of energy.

I remember when Bibby broke his foot at the beginning of the 02-03 season. B-Jax was moved into the starting 5 and Damon Jones was his backup. The team survived just fine, as great teams do, but they were very clearly missing something. That something wasn't Mike Bibby. It was Bobby Jackson. Bobby played just fine as a starter. Bibbyesque. The problem if the team was in some kind of a rut when he left the game, there was no pickup. The team had an amazing bench that year, but nobody brought energy like Bobby.

Some guys are made to be a sparkplug. It's not a knock on them. It's a testament to what they are. That's, IMO, just plain what Isaiah is.

[SacKingZZZ]

I still don't buy Isaiah at all as a starter. That's not a bad thing. He's still an awesome, awesome piece to have around on your team. Think JJ Barea in the playoffs last year, but more consistently at that level. That's kinda how I see Isaiah. Only I think Isaiah can be better defensively and as a playmaker.

Still not ideally a starter though.

Yeah, never thought of it before but I think you hit the nail on the head. That's a good model for him to follow too and that could indeed be the role for him moving forward. I'm in the same boat as you. The last two games especially that size disparity hurt.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

Streaky and it's not necessarily about him per se, but the team as a whole is just too small on the wing. Thornton isn't the biggest guy and you take Reke and put him at the 3 where he goes from being huge to small. For a team that hasn't shown anything to me that they'll be a great "running" team and one that doesn't really capitalize off of going small on the wing, I'm not sold at all. I think Zeke's talents would be better used off the bench myself, now, that could mean he still averages just as many minutes and his role doesn't change, but I think his energy is unique and that kind of energy could be a huge asset off the bench. I think this team has enough scoring on the wing with Evans/Thornton, but not enough defense overall with that starting unit.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Isaiah were lotto pick, would people still be so hesitant to call him starter worthy? I haven't seen a lot reasons why some "aren't sold" on Isaiah, so I assume it's just because he was a 60th pick.

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game?

deNIEd brought up Ty Lawson, and I think that's a better comparison for his potential than Bobby Jackson or JJ Barea.

I completely agree.

I don't understand why some people can't see Isaiah as a starter, but can see Jimmer as a starter. Since he's been given playing time, has he provided us any doubts of him not being a quality starter? Have we seen any real flaws in his game or major weaknesses? I guess you could say his height, but look at Lawson...he's been fairly successful.

However, Isaiah would not be a reason I would not pull the trigger on obtaining a star PG such as Rondo.


But with the playing time he's been given, Isaiah has shown more potential of being a quality starting PG than Tyreke or Jimmer.

With this unit I think people would have just as much of a problem with Jimmer starting next to Thornton and Evans. Causes issues with players playing out of position.

[jym85]

Too bad my Mavs don't have more young talent to really offer up.

I'm sure they'd throw in something more than just Odom like that Roddy Beaubois kid who's shown some flashes of how good he could be but he's wildly inconsistent
3 points in his last game but the team leader with 25 points the game before that.

A different team with more veterans pushing him I think would help Evans a lot.
Maybe this is all he'll ever be but has an incredible amount of talent if he'd ever dedicate himself a bit more and learn to shoot

[rpa]

Other than his height, can someone mention a real weakness in his game? .

His height is a HUGE weakness. It's like saying "what are Evans' weakness other than the fact that his shot is poor" (it isn't poor ... it's AWFUL).

As for weaknesses other than the major one (his height):
#1: I've said it before and I'll say it again, his percentages are NOT sustainable. In college the guy shot low 40s for FG%, low 70s for FT%, and mid-low 30s for 3pt%. Other than the FT% those are pretty average percentages for a guard. But, right now, he's somehow shooting the holy grail of percentages: 51/43/94 as a starter.

Let's put those numbers in perspective here. Peja, probably one of the best shooters in league history, had his best year putting up 48/43/93. I know everyone wants him to be a good player, but let's be realistic here. Thomas is not going to be putting up these Steve Nash like percentages.

#2: To put it bluntly: he's not pure PG. Being exposed to a guy like Evans for so many years has desensitized us as far as what a PG should be. Evans was shoot, dribble, shoot, maybe pass. Thomas is shoot, dribble, pass, shoot. Compared to guys like Nash, Calderon, Rondo, etc. Thomas is no more a PG than Evans is (but compare the 2 in a vacuum and he's more of a PG).

People want to say "this is what happens when the Kings have a PG on the floor" (referring to how their offense looks much better), but I'd argue that it's more a result of having 5 competent offensive players on the floor together (4 of whom have played together in some capacity for a season already). Getting Isaiah in helped the team--but nowhere near as much as getting Salmons' corpse out (and JJ Hickson for that matter).

#3: While he's a rookie, and he definitely gets a momentary pass for this, he still makes a lot of dumb plays (e.g. throwing the ball about 10 feet over Thornton's head in the first quarter). What worries me, though, is that he doesn't learn from these. Well, that or they're a necessity due to his height. By that I mean that many of the dumb plays he makes stem from getting caught in the air with the ball. If he wasn't 5'9 would he have to jump so often to give himself room? Probably not, but it's still worrying.

[KF10]

Sometimes games like this like the Suns tonight, you rather keep hold on Reke. To me, you kinda know what you get with Reke and his flaws seems correctable. Cousins on the other hand, is more unstable and his head is sometimes not there like tonight. And that's hard to correct. Both of these guys have high ceilings but ultimately are flawed players right now.