Bellator General Discussion and Info

[CPT]

I'm really looking forward to this season, since it won't be clashing with the UFC (unless you count TUF) for the first 5-6 weeks. And even then, it will be on a different day.

[Cammo101]

Headline names will always be a problem with Bellator getting to the average fan. They do a great job of scouting though, and they put on solid fights. The question will be whether they will be able to hang on to their big names once they hit the open market.

[SDM]

I like Bellator, I'd want to like them more, but I don't get the match making at times. Wiuff/M'Pumbu, what the hell was that. It completely shot the mystique around the championship and now I really don't care what M'Pumbu does as he's a paper champ. I found the semis/finals of the BW tournament to be very anticlimatic and marred with some questionable decisions (Vila over Galvao, mainly), very far removed from the advance hype generated by the starching Vila put on Warren in the opening round.

[Bernman]

I like Bellator, I'd want to like them more, but I don't get the match making at times. Wiuff/M'Pumbu, what the hell was that. It completely shot the mystique around the championship and now I really don't care what M'Pumbu does as he's a paper champ. I found the semis/finals of the BW tournament to be very anticlimatic and marred with some questionable decisions (Vila over Galvao, mainly), very far removed from the advance hype generated by the starching Vila put on Warren in the opening round.

The judging complaint about Bellator has always been erroneous.

Every UFC card is accompanied with a significant gripe or more about the judging. Look at UFC 143 alone: Leroy-Figueroa, Martinez-Riddle, Condit-Diaz, Kos-Pierce. UFC 144: Mizugaki-Cariaso, Henderson-Edgar, Shields-Akiyama.

Close decisions are prevalent when 2 good fighters are matched against each other in major MMA, and judging is an issue across the sport.

But when it happens in Bellator something fishy is going on because their events take place in casinos.

I don't even agree most of the time when fans complain about Bellator decisions. For example I had Vila-Galvao for Vila. People only remember Galvao coming on at the end of the round. Before that Wheelock had commented that Galvao had not done anything. While Vila tagged Galvao here and there. If you search through a # of media cards, the opinion on the outcome was split practically down the middle.

If Mizugaki-Cariaso, Fukuda-Ring, Omigawa-Elkins, etc.; would have happened in Bellator, fans would have conjured up some reach of a conspiracy theory as to why Bellator preferred the winner to advance.

[SDM]

Dude, I honestly don't know how you interpreted any of that from my post. You're a knowledgeable guy, but you're incredibly unapproachable at times. You continually put words in people's mouths and have the nerve to suggest what they've seen because you saw it a certain way. If you'd like to have that measurement contest you often allude to in your passive-aggressive responses, you win, big boy. Your member is so rock hard and thick, I'm making soup here.

A "questionable" decision doesn't imply "oh, oh, oh because it's in a casino and they're not popular and and and and"... The blanketing word I should have used instead was lacklustre. Dantas' win over West was lacklustre as was his win over Vila. Vila's win over Galvao was definitely lacklustre and "questionable" in the sense that arguments can be made for and have been made for Galvao as the victor. Dantas/Vila was a snoozefest and I've heard arguments for Vila as the victor, so there's another "questionable" decision. None of this has anything to do with a belief (that I've never seen mentioned here or elsewhere) that Bjorn Rebney decides who wins tournaments with a monocle over his left eye and thousand dollar bills in his fanny pack.

[Bernman]

"Marred by questionable decisions" seems to imply at least that judging has been an issue for Bellator relative to other organizations. Otherwise I don't get the point in saying it. I went off on a little bit of a tangent about how the explanation for that is often that Bellator is corrupt compared to other organizations. I didn't mean put those words in your mouth.

As far as one fighter not dominating others in a tournament, I don't get why that's necessary to validate those fighters as impressive in Bellator. There have been a plethora of tight fights in the UFC championship and #1 contender fights at the lower weights, outside of fights that involve Aldo. Lower weight fights produce less finishes and Bellator is very competitive at acquiring talent in those divisions, at the top of which there isn't much gap between competitors.

I'm definitely not passive-aggressive. I'm straight forward in a reasonable way I think. When I disagree with you or anybody else I'm not arrogant to the point where I think what I say stands alone because I say it. That's why I go overboard sometimes in trying to explain my opinion.

Thank you for saying that I was knowledgeable. I like you overall as well and respect your opinion. Don't take it personally when I disagree with one of your statements. It's not a dissection of you, but rather the statement that's made. I agree with most of what you say. We're not going to agree on everything.

[SDM]

"Marred by questionable decisions" seems to imply at least that judging has been an issue for Bellator relative to other organizations. Otherwise I don't get the point in saying it. I went off on a little bit of a tangent about how the explanation for that is often that Bellator is corrupt compared to other organizations. I didn't mean put those words in your mouth.

As far as one fighter not dominating others in a tournament, I don't get why that's necessary to validate those fighters as impressive in Bellator. There have been a plethora of tight fights in the UFC championship and #1 contender fights at the lower weights, outside of fights that involve Aldo. Lower weight fights produce less finishes and Bellator is very competitive at acquiring talent in those divisions, at the top of which there isn't much gap between competitors.

The payoff of this amazing tourney with these fast and surprisingly powerful guys suggested by Vila smoking Warren never happened because of a couple-- in my opinion-- questionable and very boring decisions. I do respect the fact that their lower weight class is very good and tightly contested, but a guy like Dantas coming off of a pair of lacklustre decisions, a finish of Reis, and a bunch of nondescript can crushings, generally wouldn't be in line for a title shot elsewhere. He's in line for a title shot because the format forces him to get a title shot. To me, that's anticlimatic and the promise of the tourney with the early finishes was marred by it. You're right... I might be too hard on them and underestimating quality of opponent, but split decisioning Ed West doesn't inspire great confidence. The opening round was the most impressive both finalists looked.

I'm definitely not passive-aggressive. I'm straight forward in a reasonable way I think. When I disagree with you or anybody else I'm not arrogant to the point where I think what I say stands alone because I say it. That's why I go overboard sometimes in trying to explain my opinion.

Thank you for saying that I was knowledgeable. I like you overall as well and respect your opinion. Don't take it personally when I disagree with one of your statements. It's not a dissection of you, but rather the statement that's made. I agree with most of what you say. We're not going to agree on everything.

I know it's not personal, nor is it on my end, I have nothing against anyone here. I do enjoy reading your insights, particularly about Bellator... You stick your fingers in a lot of pies and know your stuff, it's great having people like you around. But the way you establish your opinion and in turn challenge others' opinions sometimes sucks and you need to know this. In the UFC on FX 2 thread, I mentioned that I disagreed with the decision in the McGee fight (later explaining a 10-10 1st round, which is what one of the judges on Sherdog's PBP had as well). You wrote a response about how people were swayed by the knock down at the end which came across as "but IIIIIII wouldn't get swayed by the knock down at the end" (and it wasn't even relevant). In this very thread, with Galvao/Vila... it's because people remember Galvao coming on strong at the end, not because they watched the fight live and thought Vila didn't do enough to win, as I and many others have concluded. Those are just two examples. There's quite a few more where a poster expresses an opinion about a fight result or an exchange and you chime in telling them precisely what they saw, if it doesn't mesh with your version. Why can't you openly read/listen to their case instead of making assumptions on how they came to that position? It's infuriating and it implies know-it-allism.

[Cammo101]

I'm not saying Bellator is fixing fights, but I can see why it is so much easier to assume the fix is in in Bellator than the UFC. The UFC is so entrenched that it really does not matter who wins pretty much any of their fights. They have zero reason to fix a fight. But, when you see a guy like Warren get beat up for 3 rounds and then win a decision, you can actually understand a motive for that scoring being a fix. I'm not saying it is, but that is the difference between the UFC crap decisions and the Bellator ones.

Bellator has a very finite amount of fighters that they have marketed like crazy and bank heavily on. When those guys win a gifted decision, you should not be surprised if some whispers start.

[SDM]

I'm with Bern on this, Cammo. Judging is universally terrible with some judges adhering to placing more value on a takedown over a sub attempt, for example, or something as arbitrary as cage control-- whatever that means to each judge-- becoming the be-all-end-all of a fight. There are examples of similar fights in other orgs... Warren's was particularly memorable because it was soooo bad.

You're going to have guys like Warren go 4-3 or 5-2 over 7 fights because of the finite number of fighters-- some are actually really, really good and can't be thrown someone way down in Zuffa's doghouse like Ricardo Funch or a guy they know isn't ready like Max Holloway since Bellator doesn't have the resources and can't risk having a can in a tournament. It's just that sometimes the judges give the wrong guy the victory, not sure if there's more to read into if it happens in Bellator opposed to UFC.

[Cammo101]

I'm with Bern on this, Cammo. Judging is universally terrible with some judges adhering to placing more value on a takedown over a sub attempt, for example, or something as arbitrary as cage control-- whatever that means to each judge-- becoming the be-all-end-all of a fight. There are examples of similar fights in other orgs... Warren's was particularly memorable because it was soooo bad.

You're going to have guys like Warren go 4-3 or 5-2 over 7 fights because of the finite number of fighters-- some are actually really, really good and can't be thrown someone way down in Zuffa's doghouse like Ricardo Funch or a guy they know isn't ready like Max Holloway since Bellator doesn't have the resources and can't risk having a can in a tournament. It's just that sometimes the judges give the wrong guy the victory, not sure if there's more to read into if it happens in Bellator opposed to UFC.

I agree. I don't think Bellator is fixing fights. But, I also understand why some ammount of people assume Bellator is and no one assumes the UFC does. It is not a double standard, it is a matter of motive.

[REDDzone]

UFC is fixing Leonard Garcia's fights for him, and Martin Kampmann's fights against him, imho.

[Kittredge305]

Any chance of Rumble getting in at 185? Or even 205?

[Cammo101]

Any chance of Rumble getting in at 185? Or even 205?

He'd just show up weighting 213 pounds.

[Bernman]

He's not joking. Rumble walks around at much higher than 205, and he tries to contrive a huge advantage in every fight because outside of being much bigger than his opponents, he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.

There is no chance Bellator would invite him to a tournament because of his unreliability. Maybe they would have Shlemenko face him a super-fight while waiting for Lombard to commit to another match in Bellator though.

Bellator 66 is looking amazing: Aoki-Alvarez II, 2 LW semis, 1-2 BW quarters, Vegh-Spohn, Walker-Carabello for NAAFS title, Daly-Eye for NAAFS title, etc. It might be their Bellator 58 of this season. Nice Birthday present for me, which is 4/20 BTW. I'm going to smoke up a fat joint, as is the annual tradition, and watch it on my buddy's big screen.

[Cammo101]

WTF is the NAAFS title?

[Bernman]

NAAFS is a Ohio-based organization that Bellator is doing a little co-promotion with. A few fighters on Bellator's roster came from there, i.e.: Brian Rogers.

[SDM]

He's not joking. Rumble walks around at much higher than 205, and he tries to contrive a huge advantage in every fight because outside of being much bigger than his opponents, he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.

For a former wrestling champion, especially considering many elite, Div 1 worthy wrestlers end up going JUCO when they don't have the grades, he's been terrible at applying this skill to MMA. With the size advantage he theoretically should have in every fight south of 205, an amazing top control game should be a given. He has one tool-- his right.

One of the most disappointing prospects MMA has ever produced, IMO. He has little confidence in his skills.

[Bernman]

Damn, Bellator's bad luck from the end of last season has carried over to the start of this one. They've needed 3 late replacements on their debut card, 2 in tournament fights. One fighter (GDS) didn't make weight, another is a fugitive from the law (Oria I think), and another got injured (Fabiano). Mike Corey replaced Fabiano and I think that was actually an upgrade, but Kenny Foster replaced Genair Da Silva, and as much as I'm not a fan, he's much better than Kenny Foster. I'm actually most pissed that Da Silva screwed my bet because I was getting great odds against him. For the match-up I don't think it mattered much as Bezerra was going to fudge them both.

[Bernman]

One of the tournament match-ups is actually going to air initially on the Spike.com/Bellator.com stream and won't be replayed on TV unless there is a sufficient gap in the action. That fight will be Ronnie Mann-Michael Corey. Also on the prelims are Josh Shockley-Shamar Bailey, Travis Wiuff-Anthony Gomez, and McCorky-can. The stream starts at 7 EST/6 CT I believe. Here's the link:
http://www.spike.com/shows/bellator-fighting-championships/

[REDDzone]

Is it possible to watch those prelims later on? Or is it live or nothing?

I want to see Wiuff/Mccorkle/Mann but I won't be home until later on.