Channing Frye's bad contract is a myth

Post #1 » by **rsavaj** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:01 pm

Last month, I broke down dollars per win share among current Suns players. Marcin Gortat shined by this measure as did Markieff Morris, who has the benefit (in this case) of a small salary due to his rookie contract. Channing Frye placed a respectable 4th, to go along with him being the Suns:

2nd leading rebounder
5th leading scorer
4th in player efficiency rating (PER)
5th in effective FG%
4th in win shares/48 minutes at .090 (.100 is approximate league average)
What these numbers say to me, along with watching Frye play for the Suns these last 2+ years, is that he's an excellent bench player, lackluster starter and overall average player. He sometimes plays terrible, sometimes plays great, and sometimes both in the same game (i.e. his 2-18 shooting, 14 rebound, outstanding defensive performance vs. Blake Griffin) and it averages out to, well, average.

His $5.6M salary this season is also remarkably close to the league mean average salary, which was reported to be $5.15 last season. So, we all agree that Frye will never be a star and isn't compensated like one.
...
The important point here is not just to properly value Frye, but to realize that if the Suns get rid of him for the sake of cap space, they're as likely to end up with a Kwame Brown as they are to end up with a Samuel Dalembert. In other words, a crapshoot.

You can see how Frye stacks up against the middle of the road big guys at the link. Spoiler alert: he's in the middle...of the middle.

Dude is paid just right.

MathiasPW · Post #2 » by **MathiasPW** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:31 pm

I don't remember reading accusations of Frye having a bad contract.

For being a bad player, a fake PF, a 3-pt lover, a poor rebounder, incapable of boxing-out, no-paint game, and many more I've seen multiple times, but most of the bad contract-hate goes towards JChill nowadays, JRich in the past.

DirtyDez · Post #3 » by **DirtyDez** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:49 pm

The number itsself isn't horrible but the fact is we gave him 30+ mil based off 1 season. Teams have figured out Channing Frye, big men who shoot sub 40% belong in the D-League.

JohnVancouver · Post #4 » by **JohnVancouver** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 9:30 pm

MathiasPW wrote:I don't remember reading accusations of Frye having a bad contract.

For being a bad player, a fake PF, a 3-pt lover, a poor rebounder, incapable of boxing-out, no-paint game, and many more I've seen multiple times, but most of the bad contract-hate goes towards JChill nowadays, JRich in the past.

Eve since he signed the deal it's been held up as a Bad Idea. We inherited the JRich contract so no-one was much upset by it - to my memory

but yes, Chilly and Hak are now the examples of bad management

jcsunsfan · Post #5 » by **jcsunsfan** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 10:09 pm

If you sign a bunch of mediocre players to mediocre contracts, some of them are eventually going to look bad because there are too many players for the rotation. This is the case with Warrick. He could probably get decent minutes on another team so that his contract would not look so bad. But since we have so many players with simalar ability, he is odd man out and his contract looks bad.

LBCsun49 · Post #6 » by **LBCsun49** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 11:11 pm

FRYE SUCKS and would only start for the SUNS he couldnt start for the BOBCATS!

HE IS A SHOT JACKER AND IS A BENCH Center and should focus on that game!

Post #7 » by **rsavaj** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 11:23 pm

LBCsun49 wrote:FRYE SUCKS and would only start for the SUNS he couldnt start for the BOBCATS!

HE IS A SHOT JACKER AND IS A BENCH Center and should focus on that game!

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people don't actually click on links to articles that provide statistical analysis that negates their view.

LBCsun49 · Post #8 » by **LBCsun49** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 11:39 pm

i dont get how Stats prove that Frye is good?

I watch the games and realize he sucks and is not a good basketball player. Just a big body with a decent shot if open.

Post #9 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 2:46 am

jcsunsfan wrote:If you sign a bunch of mediocre players to mediocre contracts, some of them are eventually going to look bad because there are too many players for the rotation. This is the case with Warrick. He could probably get decent minutes on another team so that his contract would not look so bad. But since we have so many players with simalar ability, he is odd man out and his contract looks bad.

My issue with Warrick is that we signed him to a deal that no one else was offering. We overpaid for a guy no one was bidding for. I think we did the same with JChill as well.

LBCsun49 wrote:i dont get how Stats prove that Frye is good?

I watch the games and realize he sucks and is not a good basketball player. Just a big body with a decent shot if open.

I'm not even going to go there...I'll let Los Soles take care of this one.

Post #10 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 2:55 am

I still think Frye is overpaid and a product of Nash and the R&G system. He works well with us because he's good (not so much this season) at one very specific skill, he's good at shooting 3's for a big man. He wouldn't have gotten close to the amount of minutes he's gotten with us if he was on any other team because most teams have no need for a 6'11 SG.

He doesn't rebound particularly well, he doesn't defend very well and he doesn't really have much offensive skills outside of a set 3PT shot. The length of his deal his deal is the bigger issue in my eyes than the dollar per year amount.

Frank Lee · Post #11 » by **Frank Lee** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 4:30 am

Frye has a job to do, and he does it .....

one out of every 3 games. thats my take.

try that anywhere else and you'd be fired. The dude needs to work on his game SERIOUSLY. He has no mid range game... doesnt have a post game... cant handle the ball, and is wildly inconsistent at the one thing he is good at.

I'll grant some rebounding props, but stats be damned, the guy needs to step up and improve his weaknesses. It doesnt matter how much money he makes.

RaisingArizona · Post #12 » by **RaisingArizona** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 4:37 am

Frye sucks for what he's paid to do. He's not consistent at all. If he were a role player such as a 7-8 man off the bench then you can live with his inconsistency but he's definitely not a starter in the NBA. There's a reason we're 4 games under .500 starting Frye at PF.

JasonDaPsycho · Post #13 » by **JasonDaPsycho** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 8:56 pm

All he does is shoot 3s and be a small forward. That is, unless, he plays against Golden State. He beasts when he plays against GSW.

The fact that he's our 2nd leading rebounder, 5th leading scorer, 4th in player efficiency rating (PER), 5th in effective FG%, 4th in win shares/48 minutes at .090 (.100 is approximate league average) just shows us how pathetic our team is.

Remember, he and Gortat are getting paid similar money. Maybe a little less for Frye, but you get the point.

Channing Frye is garbage.

YFZblu · Post #14 » by **YFZblu** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 9:01 pm

Frye got exactly the contract he deserved based on the market at the time. When Amir Johnson go the full MLE, it was a done deal for Channing.

Considering what we've been paying Hakim Warrick to do these last couple of years, Frye should be the LAST contract we whine about.

Post #15 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 12:22 am

YFZblu wrote:Frye got exactly the contract he deserved based on the market at the time. When Amir Johnson go the full MLE, it was a done deal for Channing.

Considering what we've been paying Hakim Warrick to do these last couple of years, Frye should be the LAST contract we whine about.

At least Amir Johnson plays like the player he should be. We gave Frye his deal based on the fact that one particular skill of his make our system unique but he doesn't do anything else well. I've never been a fan of his or his style so maybe I've been biased even before he got his deal but he's a product of the Nash era and for us to move away from the past and into the future, he needs to be traded.

Wannabe MEP · Post #16 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:49 pm

Really, really tired of the never-ending Frye hate.

--We're 12.95 points per 100 possessions better with him on the court than off this year.
--Our starters are playing excellent basketball: 113.09 Off Rtg--better than Miami Heat starters, for example.
--Out of 30 most-used units in the league this year, our starters have the 4th best adjusted +/-.
--Frye was really our only center when we made our playoff run in 2010.
--He led the entire NBA in Off Rtg in 2009-2010.
--He's struggled with his shot this year, but it has gotten better throughout the season. His eFG% from three since the beginning of February is 54.38%, which is definitely good enough to greatly help us with spacing.
--He's attacking the rim more than he ever has for us, and doing so rather successfully.

wordsenuff · Post #17 » by **wordsenuff** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 7:06 pm

Los Soles wrote:Really, really tired of the never-ending Frye hate.

--We're 12.95 points per 100 possessions better with him on the court than off this year.
--Our starters are playing excellent basketball: 113.09 Off Rtg--better than Miami Heat starters, for example.
--Out of 30 most-used units in the league this year, our starters have the 4th best adjusted +/-.
--Frye was really our only center when we made our playoff run in 2010.
--He led the entire NBA in Off Rtg in 2009-2010.
--He's struggled with his shot this year, but it has gotten better throughout the season. His eFG% from three since the beginning of February is 54.38%, which is definitely good enough to greatly help us with spacing.
--He's attacking the rim more than he ever has for us, and doing so rather successfully.

RunDogGun · Post #18 » by **RunDogGun** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 8:12 pm

He's had a few lapses in judgement this year, but overall not bad. Last night, he really should have taken advantage of Dirk's injury, by continually moving around the court on the offensive side. Dallas would have been forced to switch quickly, which would have left many holes in their defense. But he just stood by the three point line, which allowed Dirk to just stand and recover his strength for the offensive side.

DRK · Post #19 » by **DRK** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:23 am

rsavaj wrote:
LBCsun49 wrote:FRYE SUCKS and would only start for the SUNS he couldnt start for the BOBCATS!

HE IS A SHOT JACKER AND IS A BENCH Center and should focus on that game!

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people don't actually click on links to articles that provide statistical analysis that negates their view.

Sometimes I feel people dont watch the games.

NashtyNas · Post #20 » by **NashtyNas** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:20 am

Honestly, the numbers don't tell you everything. It's not worth it when he's not shooting well because he just slacks on defense, he's mentally weak and thats his problem. He will give you decent man defense most nights but if his shot is really off and hes in a slump, which happens semi frequently, he's not worth that contract. It's fine though, it's not like it's an albatross, and we're not going to get a big time free agent to come here anyway. Once Frye is gone and we've hopefully added a real starting SF, he'll do well as Gortat's fulltime backup.