Trade Deadline Rumors Thread (Update pg. 24)

x- · Post #201 » by x- » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:21 pm

As a Rockets fan I feel like there are only a handful of teams that Martin would do well on.

Philly is one of those teams.

Iggy is like the perfect fit next to Martin and I feel like Doug Collins would use Martin a little better than McHale has.

Now, Martin will probably never be as good as he was last year under Adelman (perferct system, different rules), but he's better than he's played this season.

Kobblehead · Post #202 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:22 pm

I just think the packaged deal of Wes and Batum would put us over the top. Wes can play 30 minutes a night and not be a liability in any aspect of the game. He defends okay, he can hit big shots, and he's a very smart basketball player. Adding Batum would literally scare the s*** out of Miami. He might be the piece to finally make us match up well with them. Not to mention his athleticism and 3pt shooting make him a contributor on offense as well.

^ But yeah, all this is pie in the sky because odds are Portland would laugh at our offer of Turner, Noc's expiring, Lou Williams, and a 1st round pick.

Ben B. wrote: He would be one more piece who would fit Philly's overall approach. But is that what's really wanted right now? Isn't he kind of like Evan Turner with a better jumper, with worse handles & rebounding, and without the potential upside?

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply Wes would be the missing piece. I meant more of the overall package of Wes and Batum. I love Evan and would take him over Wes individually. But adding Batum would convince me to part with Evan. And while there are tradeoffs with Evan Turner and Wes on what they each bring to the table, the biggest advantage Wes comes with his conventionalism. He's a conventional 2 and is an easier fit.

ankle420breaker · Post #203 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:24 pm

I'm kind of with everyone on the Houston deal in that I'm more worried about his play slipping and his injury concerns than I am about the other side of the spectrum, which is him returning to an efficient 20+ppg scorer who knocks down everything from outside and gets to the line at will.

corwin · Post #204 » by **corwin** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:26 pm

SF,
Seems to me that Collins met with ET's agent (David Falk?) before one of the games last week & then ET started against Milwaukee. Have you heard whether management & the agent agree to showcase him?

Post #205 » by **Ben** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:26 pm

Ah-- I didn't view it as Philly trying to get (or thinking that they could get) both Matthews and Batum but rather trying to get Matthews while hoping to upgrade and get Batum instead. Getting both would be great, but like you kobblehead I just can't see the Blazers giving up both of them. Turner would be their lone wing and he hasn't proven anything.

ankle420breaker · Post #206 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:27 pm

^ They would still have Gerald Wallace, but yeah, I see your point.

corwin · Post #207 » by **corwin** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:33 pm

Batum is an UFA next year & they still have Wallace on the team. If they're not sure they want to re-sign him because his asking price is too high, I can see them moving him. Of course, he becomes a part of our core & would be redundant with Iggy around. I guess I don't see Portland moving Matthews at all because he is on a pretty reasonable deal (21M over the next 3 years) & is their shooting guard. If Portland is packing it in this year, maybe they'll move Crawford for Nocioni & a second rounder.

sixerfan1976 · Post #208 » by **sixerfan1976** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:35 pm

i am with the rest of you that i think houston is a more realistic deal but i prefer a deal with portland.

Kobblehead · Post #209 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:44 pm

Kevin Martin being a free agent at the end of the 12-13 season scares me. That could present a dangerous situation where we have alot of cap room and a going on 31 year old Kevin Martin is sitting there looking to get re-upped. Could be a trap for us to overpay for a declining player for the sake of staying above water.

steveb21 · Post #210 » by **steveb21** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:44 pm

On the flip side, how does Turner fit with Houston? They have Lowry at the point and Budinger at SF. Has he shown enough to make them think he can succeed as a SG? He could be better off in Portland where he could actually play the point.

Either way I'm glad they're talking to teams in the west...just in case he blows up big time.

hatters89 · Post #211 » by **hatters89** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:46 pm

What if New Jersey being selling off pieces because Howard is going to stay in Orlando. Do we try and get Williams... He is a star player, closer and outside shooter... Maybe offer Jrue, Turner and Nocioni expiring... We lose some youth but if Williams resigns and we drop Brand we have lots of cap money for another pick up..

Kobblehead · Post #212 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:48 pm

hatters89 wrote:What if New Jersey being selling off pieces because Howard is going to stay in Orlando. Do we try and get Williams... He is a star player, closer and outside shooter... Maybe offer Jrue, Turner and Nocioni expiring... We lose some youth but if Williams resigns and we drop Brand we have lots of cap money for another pick up..

I would be very very careful with Williams. The general consensus out there is that if Dwight won't join him in Brooklyn, he's heading back to his homestate of Texas. Most likely with Dallas.

Post #213 » by **Ben** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:48 pm

corwin wrote:Batum is an UFA next year & they still have Wallace on the team. If they're not sure they want to re-sign him because his asking price is too high, I can see them moving him. Of course, he becomes a part of our core & would be redundant with Iggy around. I guess I don't see Portland moving Matthews at all because he is on a pretty reasonable deal (21M over the next 3 years) & is their shooting guard. If Portland is packing it in this year, maybe they'll move Crawford for Nocioni & a second rounder.

Batum's not an unrestricted free agent; he's restricted. They can match. What I hear from Portland fans (which obviously does not = Portland management) is that they expect to keep Batum and possibly not Gerald Wallace.

The reason why they might be interested in moving Matthews-- Portland fans seem extremely interested in moving him-- is that he's having a down season and, when his career is viewed as a whole, he's only had 1 pretty good season out of 3 yet he makes more than the MLE. IMO one of his big problems this year has been not playing with a real point guard. I never liked Felton much and this year he's come crashing down to earth, and Jamal Crawford is not a true point guard. Playing alongside point guard Jrue and point forward Iggy, Matthews could probably improve his shooting somewhat. Getting him now could be one of those "buy low" opportunities. But IMO his upside still isn't all that great-- nothing like Batum's. Getting him WITH Batum would be a different story.

Post #214 » by **Ben** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:53 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Kevin Martin being a free agent at the end of the 12-13 season scares me. That could present a dangerous situation where we have alot of cap room and a going on 31 year old Kevin Martin is sitting there looking to get re-upped. Could be a trap for us to overpay for a declining player for the sake of staying above water.

All true. But on the flip side, the Sixers as presently constructed won't have a lot of salary on the books in 13-14. They could let Martin walk and be major free agency players or do a S&T for more desirable assets. Or trade him at the 12-13 deadline as a very valuable expiring (increased value b/c he's still a productive player) for more desirable assets. Or Martin could wind up not being all that expensive to re-sign. All of those are possibilities, along with the likelihood of improving the team markedly in the short term.

Kobblehead · Post #215 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:04 pm

Can someone explain Adleman's offensive system to me. How similar/dissimilar is it from Collins'?

corwin · Post #216 » by **corwin** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:10 pm

I've looked at the Houston board occasionally. They are very high on their GM & I guess his approach is to grab young guys with potential. It doesn't always work out. For example, they didn't pick up the options on Thabeet, Williams, Flynn & Hill. They'd be taking a flyer on Turner, move Courtney Lee in the starting rotation (we should ask for him), & have more money to spend on a FA next year. Checked & in fact, they'd have Scola, Lowry, Turner, Patterson, Morris, Parsons, & Buddinger under contract with a payroll of about 21M & options on Courtney Lee & Dalembert. We'll be capped out for another year.

corwin · Post #217 » by **corwin** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:16 pm

Ben B. wrote:Batum's not an unrestricted free agent; he's restricted. They can match. What I hear from Portland fans (which obviously does not = Portland management) is that they expect to keep Batum and possibly not Gerald Wallace.

The reason why they might be interested in moving Matthews-- Portland fans seem extremely interested in moving him-- is that he's having a down season and, when his career is viewed as a whole, he's only had 1 pretty good season out of 3 yet he makes more than the MLE. IMO one of his big problems this year has been not playing with a real point guard. I never liked Felton much and this year he's come crashing down to earth, and Jamal Crawford is not a true point guard. Playing alongside point guard Jrue and point forward Iggy, Matthews could probably improve his shooting somewhat. Getting him now could be one of those "buy low" opportunities. But IMO his upside still isn't all that great-- nothing like Batum's. Getting him WITH Batum would be a different story.

Thanks for clearing that up about Batum. Still, with Iggy & Batum you'd have a lot of money tied into the 3 spot, especially if you consider Thad a part-timer at the 3. I know the Portland fans are down on Felton & some are even regretting that they got rid of Andre Miller. I'd be OK with either Crawford or Matthews on our team but would hate to see Turner traded for either one of them.

x- · Post #218 » by x- » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:31 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Can someone explain Adleman's offensive system to me. How similar/dissimilar is it from Collins'?

It's a read&react system. Lots of corner series. Lots of high post action somewhat similar to what the Sixers run. Some simple horns sets.

Most (nearly all I think) of the corner offense options are highlighted in this video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhaW2nVVcg[/youtube]

Post #219 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:37 pm

I just don't see Martin as moving the team much better, while using one of its biggest trade chips. It definitely doesn't push the team into the Chicago/Miami tier, and then what is the gain? If they are intent on selling now on Turner, would much rather try and make a run at a defensive center at least.

Next year after Hawes is an unrestricted free agent and possibly signed elsewhere the team could be looking at a starting Brand/Vuc front court to backstop Martin? Ugh. That is the season that makes Collins quit, right?

Gsraider · Post #220 » by **Gsraider** » Wed Mar 7, 2012 7:41 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:I just don't see Martin as moving the team much better, while using one of its biggest trade chips. It definitely doesn't push the team into the Chicago/Miami tier, and then what is the gain? If they are intent on selling now on Turner, would much rather try and make a run at a defensive center at least.

Next year after Hawes is an unrestricted free agent and possibly signed elsewhere the team could be looking at a starting Brand/Vuc front court to backstop Martin? Ugh. That is the season that makes Collins quit, right?

That's my issue. Martin is a good player, not great, but he's closing in on 30 and not the final piece to the puzzle for this team. I suppose that could look somewhat different if Philly uses it's amnesty on Brand and gets a big time player upfront, but that's all subjective. For now, I like the Portland deal better in large part because it keeps the team younger and Batum still possesses enormous upside. Too bad Philly isn't targeting some rebounding help as well. I suppose Hill fits that category, but he's the gravy in a Martin deal, not the target.