The "I Was Dead Wrong About"... Thread.

[Severn Hoos]

So Kev, do you ever get tired of typing the same post over and over? Or do you have them in a special Word file where you can go to just cut and paste?




(Sorry, that might have sounded like a knock on you for being repetitive - it wasn't, it was an acknowledgement that some truths take a long time to settle in for folks.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't remember what our salary situation was, but I doubt we would have been able to bid on any free agents, even if we let both Arenas and Jamison walk. Even if we could, none of the names you mentioned would have been an upgrade over Jamison+Arenas except Andre Iguodala, and I doubt we would have had enough cap room to sign him. Okafor maybe, if we could play him at the four.

Good points on not being able to afford Okafor or Iguodala due to the cap, Zonker. Luxury tax would have kicked in on them, unlike resigning with resigning Gil, IIRC.

Still, guys like Carl Landry could have given close to what AJ did at PF. Mario Chalmers never could replace Gil, but he sure could play better defense if they drafted him (I liked him, too, Sev). Boobie Gibson taken away from the Cavs could have been a minor coup. Washington had some minor moves they could have made.

In retrospect, after committing all that salary, Gil got hurt again and so did Haywood early. EJ got fired. With Ed Tapscott coaching, the Wizards ended at 19-63 with one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. They also owed Arenas $95M+ over the next 6 seasons.

Washington still has not recovered from the summer of 2007. Between Gil's deal and running off Tom Thibodeau, what a total disaster of a summer.

[Ruzious]

I remember that, CCJ. You wanted Ramon Sessions to replace Gilbert and lead us to the promised land. Minnesota agreed with your thinking and signed him to a multi-year contract. They liked him so much that they replaced him with Luke Ridnour the next season.

Kill the messenger. You hate it when I'm right.

Ramon Sessions as a stop gap would have beat the hell out of giving $167M to Arenas/Jamison. Tell you what, Ruz: If we can go back in time, I still take Sessions for four years, at 16M over the life of his deal. Gve me the $151M in cap room I would have saved, to add talent to a team that already had Caron Butler, solid veterans like Haywood and Daniels, young talent like Young, Blatche, and McGee. Where the Wizards would be now is a whole lot better than what happened as a result of Arenas/Jamison signings.

Ruz, you laugh at me, but Rashard Lewis is making $21M per season. There never would have been that outrageous contract or Gil's, guns in the locker room, or feces in a shoe if I had my way and the Wizards had chosen as I would have had them do. This team would have been FA players the time when Ray Allen was a FA, for instance. A lot of things changed because the Wizards did not choose wisely.

Sessions still has teams that want him, Ruz.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 5086.story

--The Times' Mike Bresnahan reports that the Lakers were close to a deal to acquire Cleveland guard Ramon Sessions, but didn't want to give up the first-round draft pick they acquired from the Dallas Mavericks in the Lamar Odom trade.

(Note: Cleveland asked for a first round pick in return, Ruz).

After Ramon Sessions went to Minny, they drafted Flynn and had Kurt Rambis as a first-year head coach. They had the NBAs version of the rappers known back in the day as The Fat Boys, Kevin Love and Al Jefferson, "defending" and a system that was terrible.

I think Sessions at $4.5M is a bargain. His PER in Cleveland was 19.0 before they drafted Kyrie. Sessions is a competent NBA player--not a star. I wasn't wrong about Sessions at all, Ruz. You just don't get it, yet. IMO, you hate the guy from his days with the Bucks. We can go around and around on this one, Ruz.

Oh, Sessions had nothing to do with why I didn't want to resign Gil. He was just a fall back idea for no Gil.

I do laugh at you, but hopefully you know it's good-natured.

And I do get it. They didn't like Sessions. They signed Ridnour, because they thought he was an upgrade over Sessions. He is what I always said he was - a good backup. I will grant you that he has improved his shooting range. He used to have absolutely no jump shot. But I'm sure you foresaw that. What I foresaw was that Sessions will never be a significant part of a winning team. So far...

As for the Lakers interest in him, they were also supposedly interested in Arenas. What does that tell you? THEY'RE DESPERATE! Kinda ironic there that both of them were rumored to be considered by the Lakers.

Anyway, this is an "I was dead wrong about..." thread; not an "I told ya so" thread.

ITYS.

[MJG]

It's a big waste of time for the team to bid on free agent Gilbert Arenas. He's a top tier young player, he's not going to come to DC!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I remember that, CCJ. You wanted Ramon Sessions to replace Gilbert and lead us to the promised land. Minnesota agreed with your thinking and signed him to a multi-year contract. They liked him so much that they replaced him with Luke Ridnour the next season.

Kill the messenger. You hate it when I'm right.

Ramon Sessions as a stop gap would have beat the hell out of giving $167M to Arenas/Jamison. Tell you what, Ruz: If we can go back in time, I still take Sessions for four years, at 16M over the life of his deal. Gve me the $151M in cap room I would have saved, to add talent to a team that already had Caron Butler, solid veterans like Haywood and Daniels, young talent like Young, Blatche, and McGee. Where the Wizards would be now is a whole lot better than what happened as a result of Arenas/Jamison signings.

Ruz, you laugh at me, but Rashard Lewis is making $21M per season. There never would have been that outrageous contract or Gil's, guns in the locker room, or feces in a shoe if I had my way and the Wizards had chosen as I would have had them do. This team would have been FA players the time when Ray Allen was a FA, for instance. A lot of things changed because the Wizards did not choose wisely.

Sessions still has teams that want him, Ruz.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 5086.story

--The Times' Mike Bresnahan reports that the Lakers were close to a deal to acquire Cleveland guard Ramon Sessions, but didn't want to give up the first-round draft pick they acquired from the Dallas Mavericks in the Lamar Odom trade.

(Note: Cleveland asked for a first round pick in return, Ruz).

After Ramon Sessions went to Minny, they drafted Flynn and had Kurt Rambis as a first-year head coach. They had the NBAs version of the rappers known back in the day as The Fat Boys, Kevin Love and Al Jefferson, "defending" and a system that was terrible.

I think Sessions at $4.5M is a bargain. His PER in Cleveland was 19.0 before they drafted Kyrie. Sessions is a competent NBA player--not a star. I wasn't wrong about Sessions at all, Ruz. You just don't get it, yet. IMO, you hate the guy from his days with the Bucks. We can go around and around on this one, Ruz.

Oh, Sessions had nothing to do with why I didn't want to resign Gil. He was just a fall back idea for no Gil.

I do laugh at you, but hopefully you know it's good-natured.

And I do get it. They didn't like Sessions. They signed Ridnour, because they thought he was an upgrade over Sessions. He is what I always said he was - a good backup. I will grant you that he has improved his shooting range. He used to have absolutely no jump shot. But I'm sure you foresaw that. What I foresaw was that Sessions will never be a significant part of a winning team. So far...

As for the Lakers interest in him, they were also supposedly interested in Arenas. What does that tell you? THEY'RE DESPERATE! Kinda ironic there that both of them were rumored to be considered by the Lakers.

Anyway, this is an "I was dead wrong about..." thread; not an "I told ya so" thread.

ITYS.

Ooh, now there's a thought. Mods can move them my ITYS posts to an ITYS thread!

To transition back on topic, instead of me opening up an ITYS about Flip Saunders...

EDITED: If you didn't read what I originally posted, you're better off for it.

[Ruzious]

ITYS - what does that mean? I thought you said?

[BanndNDC]

the franchise would have been dead and the fanbase in even bigger tatters then it is now had they not resigned arenas. he had to be resigned on non-basketball factors alone. so maybe those posts do belong in the "i was dead wrong" thread.

this whole conversation makes me think there is some caps fan version of ccj out there lamenting signing ovechkin and backstrom to those long extensions.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

OKAY, back on topic.

On draft night I would have complained bitterly if Biyombo were selected ahead of Faried.

That guy Biyombo is the most physically-talented rookie and will end up better (if he already isn't) than the player I wanted. BB is way better than I imagined he would be.

[Ruzious]

I remember watching the Nike Under 19 game US vs the world - and BB was matched up against Anthony Davis. They were the starting centers for their teams and played against each other for a lot of the game. It was fun to watch. BB - being fully developed and Davis - being maybe 210 lbs soaking wet. BB had a triple double - including 10 blocks, and Davis played well, too.

[tontoz]

Ooh, now there's a thought. Mods can move them my ITYS posts to an ITYS thread!

To transition back on topic, instead of me opening up an ITYS about Flip Saunders...

It is mighty quiet in this thread. Many of you had a lot to say about Flip's coaching and how a new coach would do no better. Does anyone care to man up? Anyone feel they were wrong about Flip? I have been wrong a bunch, remember.

Yes. First of all that is not the argument people were making. They were saying that the team would suck no matter who is the coach. Even though i like Wittman better than Flip, this team still sucks.

Secondly the team had a tougher schedule when Flip was coaching. He didn't have the luxury of two easy wins against the Cats when they were missing 3 starters. Most of their games were against playoff teams when Flip was coaching.

Third i would argue that Blatche being out helped the team look more like a team. Blatche is the Captain of Suck.

Last but not least there is this, your own thread...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1158401

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I remembered this as I posted it. They do suck. I said I was wrong about that. I did apologize.

EDITED

I will take the Flip post out, tontoz. That and other ITYS stuff doesn't belong.

[tontoz]

i am not questioning your integrity when i pull up old posts. Get a grip. But the ITYS doesn't carry much weight. You admitted you were wrong a month ago. I didn't need to hear it again and i never said you needed to apologize for your Flip tirades.

I am glad Flip is gone. I wanted him gone. I like Wittman better and certainly think he is doing a better job than Flip. But the team still sucks, as you mentioned in your own thread. No matter who the coach is this team will suck.

Wall played much better in the 2nd half of last season. he is doing the same this season. I think he was going to get better no matter who was coaching. I think he just got off to a bad start primarily because of the lockout, as i said at the time.

FYI i never said Flip was a good coach. I was basically indifferent to Flip, although his favoritism to Blatche eventually caused me to want him gone.

[hands11]

the franchise would have been dead and the fanbase in even bigger tatters then it is now had they not resigned arenas. he had to be resigned on non-basketball factors alone. so maybe those posts do belong in the "i was dead wrong" thread.

this whole conversation makes me think there is some caps fan version of ccj out there lamenting signing ovechkin and backstrom to those long extensions.

Not true. They would be winning and fans would support that.

You take your lumps to do the right moves.

[Dat2U]

I still don't think giving Arenas that contract was the wrong move. It turned out bad, but I think it was the right decision. Yes he was hurt, but thousands of athletes have had similar injuries and returned at 100%. Gil's surgery and recovery and reinjuries sucked, but them's the breaks. (Now, I'll grant you that maybe the Wizards should have taken their medical staff into account, but I think that's a separate issue.)
The Wizards offered Arenas the max in part to make sure Gil knew they were willing to pay to keep him -- remember that Golden State offered him max money. Then Arenas "gave back" something like $20 million over the life of the deal. So yeah, Gil's contract could have been even worse.

The Arenas thing reminds me of when I played poker. Sometimes you make the right decision and lose. But, if you make the right decision enough, the odds will be in your favor over the long run.

I agreed with re-signing Gilbert too for the same reasons you stated. The problem is you, me or no one else on this board knew the existant of Gilbert's injury problems. At the time of the deal, we all assumed he was well on his way to recovery.

But then a year or two ago, Gilbert admitted in an interview that he still having serious issues with the knee during that offseason and that the Wizards knew of these issues and still decided to pay him.

That shocked me. I don't know how you could pay someone that much money knowing that he was still having major issues. Or how he even passed a physical. Or how his contract could be even insured considering his problems.

If he was healthy, then the move made total sense. But apparently he wasn't so I think it's fair to wonder WTF was someone thinking in offering him a max deal.

[Dat2U]

I remember that, CCJ. You wanted Ramon Sessions to replace Gilbert and lead us to the promised land. Minnesota agreed with your thinking and signed him to a multi-year contract. They liked him so much that they replaced him with Luke Ridnour the next season.

Kill the messenger. You hate it when I'm right.

Ramon Sessions as a stop gap would have beat the hell out of giving $167M to Arenas/Jamison. Tell you what, Ruz: If we can go back in time, I still take Sessions for four years, at 16M over the life of his deal. Gve me the $151M in cap room I would have saved, to add talent to a team that already had Caron Butler, solid veterans like Haywood and Daniels, young talent like Young, Blatche, and McGee. Where the Wizards would be now is a whole lot better than what happened as a result of Arenas/Jamison signings.

Ruz, you laugh at me, but Rashard Lewis is making $21M per season. There never would have been that outrageous contract or Gil's, guns in the locker room, or feces in a shoe if I had my way and the Wizards had chosen as I would have had them do. This team would have been FA players the time when Ray Allen was a FA, for instance (or did Ray go the year earlier, IDK?). A lot of things changed because the Wizards did not choose wisely.

Sessions still has teams that want him, Ruz.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 5086.story

--The Times' Mike Bresnahan reports that the Lakers were close to a deal to acquire Cleveland guard Ramon Sessions, but didn't want to give up the first-round draft pick they acquired from the Dallas Mavericks in the Lamar Odom trade.

(Note: Cleveland asked for a first round pick in return, Ruz).

After Ramon Sessions went to Minny, they drafted Flynn and had Kurt Rambis as a first-year head coach. They had the NBAs version of the rappers known back in the day as The Fat Boys, Kevin Love and Al Jefferson, "defending" and a system that was terrible.

I think Sessions at $4.5M is a bargain. His PER in Cleveland was 19.0 before they drafted Kyrie. Sessions is a competent NBA player--not a star. I wasn't wrong about Sessions at all, Ruz. You just don't get it, yet. IMO, you hate the guy from his days with the Bucks. We can go around and around on this one, Ruz.

Oh, Sessions had nothing to do with why I didn't want to resign Gil. He was just a fall back idea for no Gil.

Anything would have beat giving $167 mil to Antawn Arenas but I don't quite get the alternative you were suggesting either. Sessions may be a bargain, but if he's your starter it's still a bad team. Another guy you mentioned, Mario Chalmers is another guy that could have started, but again, unless you have LeBron & Wade to go with him, you've got a bad team with him as your lead guard.

Realistically there were little to no alternatives to re-signing Gil/Jamison. It was either status quo, or full blown rebuild. Full blown rebuild was obviously the way to go, but replacing Gil & Jamison with lower tier vets like Sessions or Chalmers wasn't really the answer either. We'd still have stunk.

Actually at the time I suggested swapping Gil for Monta Ellis (who was coming off his own injury concerns) in a S&T but either way, we still were going to be bad.

Great foresight on letting Gil go. But arguing the value of bringing in Sessions or Chalmers at that time doesn't really hold weight because it wouldn't have meant much in larger scheme of things.

[willbcocks]

I was never a big arenas fan. He was the best player on my favorite team and brought some success, but I hated his lack of effort on the defensive end, and I never really liked his style of play.

But even with that, I thought resigning him was the right decision. We really were between a rock and a hard place--not good enough to compete, but too good to sell a blowup to the fans. The deciding factor for me was the age of our owner. Clearly he was not going to survive to see the results of a blowup, so my thinking was let's see how good this team can be and at least have fun watching the games. Similarly, I did not like the #5 for Miller and Foye trade, but I saw the logic there: we were going all in that year. Not what you want as a fan, but the owner was dying. Sadly, the two didn't even provide the impact that year that Curry would have.

[fishercob]

I may have been wrong about Kevin Seraphin!

[REDardWIZskin]

I was wrong about Rubio having the impact he's had in this league. I kind of thought the trade Ernie made might not be so bad if the player we were likely to get was a overhyped one. I WAS WRONG. and the trade looks worse because i am wrong lol.

[tontoz]

I was wrong about Rubio having the impact he's had in this league. I kind of thought the trade Ernie made might not be so bad if the player we were likely to get was a overhyped one. I WAS WRONG. and the trade looks worse because i am wrong lol.

Don't feel so bad. Rubio's hype seems to have exceeded his abilities.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4011/ricky-rubio

Curry on the other hand....

[BarnabyJones]

I was wrong as hell about Kevin Love. I thought he would maybe be a 15-8 guy in the NBA.

He's getting 25 and 14 a night now.