Woelfel - 70% bogut's gone and maybe Jennings (update pg131)

[paulpressey25]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute here. Pressey in the trade thread a few weeks ago didn't allow us to make bogut deals because he said it's not possible. Pressey should be fired!

Hey, call it my Joe Alexander draft moment.

[REDDzone]

Bogut is being blamed for much of what is wrong with this team in an effort to protect/isolate Jennings from blame (and therefore deflecting blame from Hammonds), thereby coddling him more and hoping he doesn't want to leave.

Fixed.
- Bucks "Outsider"

[smooth 'lil balla]

I'll withhold judgment on any Bogut deals until one actually goes down. I will repeat what I posted a few weeks ago - the anti-Bogut sentiment is growing stronger and stronger within the team. I'm fine with trading Bogut for a few reasons (none performance related really) but the anti-Bogut vibe is baffling to me on a number of levels. My take - and this is only my take - is that Bogut is being blamed for much of what is wrong with this team in an effort to protect/isolate Jennings from blame, thereby coddling him more and hoping he doesn't want to leave.

I'm a big fan of yours Europa, but that just doesn't make sense. Jennings plays in 90% of our games and is our closest all star. Bogut has played in less than 50% of our games the last three years and has never lived up to his promise. To say this is coddling Jennings is to turn your head on the failure that Andrew Bogut has become...And I like Bogut.

Wowzers. I'm no mathematician but Bogut has played in 146 of a possible 203 games the past 3 seasons including this one - or about 72% of possible games. That number will go down a little more over the next couple of weeks, but not that much. Less than 50%? Have you been getting your statistics from Woelful?

I hate it when i'm corrected by facts!

[REDDzone]

:o Wowzers. I'm no mathematician but Bogut has played in 146 of a possible 203 games the past 3 seasons including this one - or about 72% of possible games. That number will go down a little more over the next couple of weeks, but not that much. Less than 50%? Have you been getting your statistics from Woelful?

The guy just called himself a "big fan" of a message board poster, and the made up statistic (which is 92.46% of ALL statistics) is what caught your eye?

[JimmyTheKid]

I'll withhold judgment on any Bogut deals until one actually goes down. I will repeat what I posted a few weeks ago - the anti-Bogut sentiment is growing stronger and stronger within the team. I'm fine with trading Bogut for a few reasons (none performance related really) but the anti-Bogut vibe is baffling to me on a number of levels. My take - and this is only my take - is that Bogut is being blamed for much of what is wrong with this team in an effort to protect/isolate Jennings from blame, thereby coddling him more and hoping he doesn't want to leave.

I'm a big fan of yours Europa, but that just doesn't make sense. Jennings plays in 90% of our games and is our closest all star. Bogut has played in less than 50% of our games the last three years and has never lived up to his promise. To say this is coddling Jennings is to turn your head on the failure that Andrew Bogut has become...And I like Bogut.

Doesn't make any sense to me either. I'm guessing the growing anti-Bogut sentiment is due to his inability to stay on the court and has nothing to do with Jennings. As far as the blame game is concerned, its not Bogut's fault he's injury prone. Unfortunately, as a result, the three highest paid players on the team combine for 17 minutes of court time per game. And all of those minutes go to an unhappy backup PG. Plenty of blame to go around.

[paul]

:o Wowzers. I'm no mathematician but Bogut has played in 146 of a possible 203 games the past 3 seasons including this one - or about 72% of possible games. That number will go down a little more over the next couple of weeks, but not that much. Less than 50%? Have you been getting your statistics from Woelful?

The guy just called himself a "big fan" of a message board poster, and the made up statistic (which is 92.46% of ALL statistics) is what caught your eye?

Europa commands a large and passionate following, I'm well used to it

[JimmyTheKid]

Just so I'm clear, the resident "insiders" with connections to Bucks' decision makers are europa and buckpack? Is that right?

[braindazer]

I think one of the lotto teams has to be Jordan's Bobcats . It's
well documented he is very found of Andrew .

[REDDzone]

Just so I'm clear, the resident "insiders" with connections to Bucks' decision makers are europa and buckpack? Is that right?

GAD knows his stuff as well.

[paulpressey25]

If you count Bogut's back injury season, he's played in 182 out of a possible 312 or 58% assuming he doesn't play this regular season.

Just saying that if Hammond had some concerns about the durability of Bogut it might be well justified.

Granted Hammond inherited Bogut. But I can see John slamming the laptop on the desk and wondering what the team's record would be if Bogut played in 90% of those games the past four seasons.

[paul]

I'll withhold judgment on any Bogut deals until one actually goes down. I will repeat what I posted a few weeks ago - the anti-Bogut sentiment is growing stronger and stronger within the team. I'm fine with trading Bogut for a few reasons (none performance related really) but the anti-Bogut vibe is baffling to me on a number of levels. My take - and this is only my take - is that Bogut is being blamed for much of what is wrong with this team in an effort to protect/isolate Jennings from blame, thereby coddling him more and hoping he doesn't want to leave.

I'm a big fan of yours Europa, but that just doesn't make sense. Jennings plays in 90% of our games and is our closest all star. Bogut has played in less than 50% of our games the last three years and has never lived up to his promise. To say this is coddling Jennings is to turn your head on the failure that Andrew Bogut has become...And I like Bogut.

Doesn't make any sense to me either. I'm guessing the growing anti-Bogut sentiment is due to his inability to stay on the court and has nothing to do with Jennings. As far as the blame game is concerned, its not Bogut's fault he's injury prone. Unfortunately, as a result, the three highest paid players on the team combine for 17 minutes of court time per game. And all of those minutes go to an unhappy backup PG. Plenty of blame to go around.

Tough to 'blame' someone for landing on a foot after blocking a shot or getting a nudge in the back when going up for a dunk. I personally think the 'scapegoat' theory to save a few asses and reputations is much more viable - I could see that coming from all of Skiles, Hammond and Jennings, their jobs and reputations are all on the line right now.

A clean break (pardon the pun) is definitely the best thing for Andrew at this point. I'm a Bucks fan, but let's face it we're a f'ing joke lol, Bogut won't like it initially but the further away he gets from this debacle the better for him.

[paul]

assuming he doesn't play this regular season.

Are people going to stop doing that at some point?

[Tdawson333]

I would love a bogut for a Monte Ellis trade. We need a scorer they need a big man

[europa]

Bogut is being blamed for much of what is wrong with this team in an effort to protect/isolate Jennings from blame (and therefore deflecting blame from Hammonds), thereby coddling him more and hoping he doesn't want to leave.

Fixed.
- Bucks "Outsider"

Skiles too.

I think it's easier for both Hammond and Skiles to save their jobs by going to Kohl and saying "It's Bogut's fault this team is struggling" as opposed to Hammond saying I did a poor job of assembling talent and Skiles saying I did a poor job of coaching the players Hammond gave me.

As far as the coddling of Jennings thing, it makes perfect sense if you are under the belief that he could be a star and the Bucks very badly do not want him to leave town. So if that's your mindset, you insulate him from blame, attach blame elsewhere and say that all we need to do is get rid of Problem A, B or C and Jennings will become a star and the Bucks will be great.

Now whether anyone with a shred of basketball intelligence should believe such a theory is another question entirely. But it's Kohl so ... well ... I'll leave it at that.

Again, what I do know is there is a lot of anti-Bogut sentiment filtering inside the Bucks' organization. And I have heard precious little anti-Jennings sentiment despite all of the legitimate areas of concern he's provided in the last month or so. I'm just connecting the dots. I could be wrong but it certainly fits.

[Newz]

Casual fan on the radio:

"Screw draft picks. Let's trade him to Minnesota and get Beasley!"

[paul]

Did someone already post parts of Gery's story and I missed it? If so, sorry, if not - some interesting tidbits. It's sad yet totally predictable that Scotty has seemingly burnt through the guy who has been easily his most useful ally on-court in his time here.

Bogut, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2005 NBA draft, has never publicly expressed any displeasure playing in small-market Milwaukee.

But there are whispers Bogut wouldn’t mind a change of scenery, having become frustrated about the team’s lack of progress and his strained relationship with Bucks head coach Scott Skiles.
Unlike his teammate Stephen Jackson, who hasn’t hidden his displeasure with Skiles — Jackson recently told Rod Burks of Channel 4 in Milwaukee that “We don’t have no relationship like I’ve had with other coaches and I don’t expect to have one.” — Bogut has had his issues with Skiles as well.
Some Bucks claim the Bogut-Skiles relationship was especially acrimonious last season when they seldom communicated with each other.

Besides his noticeable talents as a rebounder and shot-blocker, Bogut also has a favorable contract. After this season, he has two years remaining: $13.1 million for the 2012-13 season and $14.2 million for the 2013-14 season.
Bogut is also just 27 and theoretically entering the prime of his career, As such, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that a slew of teams are either privately discussing acquiring Bogut or have already contacted the Bucks about him.
That includes teams are currently in the lottery like Charlotte, Golden State, Washington, New Orleans and Houston, among others, along with some teams currently in the playoffs, like Atlanta, Boston and Orlando, among others.
The latter team could come into play if the Magic decide to trade All-Star center Dwight Howard. It’s no secret the Los Angeles Lakers would love to take Howard off the Magic’s hands, although some league officials contend the Magic would be more interested in obtaining Bogut than either Lakers center Andrew Bynum or Lakers power forward Pau Gasol.
There has also been speculation the Bucks, ideally, would like to package Jackson with Bogut in a trade. That won’t be easy, however, considering Jackson is collecting $9.2 million this season and is guaranteed $10 million next season.

[Newz]

Has Bogut ever had a coach he has got along with?

I'm not accusing him of being a coach killer or anything. But from college to the pros, I cannot remember a coach that he got along with.

[LUKE23]

Make it any top 10 pick and I'd ship him. If it's a mid 1st, I'll wait and the chances of his value being higher next deadline would be pretty solid. But I really like the top of this draft, but it doesn't have a ton of depth, IMO. I'm looking at the guys projected mid 1st and just not getting excited.

[Newz]

Make it any top 10 pick and I'd ship him. If it's a mid 1st, I'll wait and the chances of his value being higher next deadline would be pretty solid. But I really like the top of this draft, but it doesn't have a ton of depth, IMO. I'm looking at the guys projected mid 1st and just not getting excited.

The offer I would be exploring (not sure if Utah would be interested) would be:

Bogut + Ersan for Jefferson + UTAH 1st + GS 1st

[smooth 'lil balla]

Casual fan on the radio:

"Screw draft picks. Let's trade him to Minnesota and get Beasley!"

Yea. I heard that too. Also, we should trade "Isalova" and Jennings for Bynum.