Magic Want A Carmelo Like Trade

[richboy]

Have to remember the Nuggets were also sending Billups. Even still that trade was ridiculous. The Melo trade will end the thinking that the team that got the best player will win the trade.

I really don't understand how people can say that Denver has come anywhere NEAR winning the trade vs the knicks. The Knicks traded Gallinari, Felton, Mozgov, and Wilson Chandler for Anthony, Billups, Sheldon Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman. Gallinari is a solid role player at best, Raymond felton is scrubbing it up in Portland, Mozgov is well mozgov nothing more than a borderline NBA player, and wilson chandler is no longer in the league (hes in china). The knicks did not trade one player of any value to acquire Carmelo Anthony besides maybe Gallinari, but he is still not that good at all. The Nuggets were a team that was put together very well to begin with. The only reason people think they won the trade is because most of the world thought they would collapse after they traded away anthony. But lets face it. Anthony was not their entire team and they got subpar pieces in return that have allowed them to stay somewhat relevant.

Because Carmelo isn't that good. That is a deal you do for a Lebron or Dwight. Instead the Knicks gave up all that for a good scorer and not much else.

Look at the reality of Carmelo. Right now you would have a debate if he is better than DG. Lets just take Melo. He has barely a PER of 20. His career best is 22. His career offensive rating is 107. These are not superstar numbers. It does lead you to wonder what are you getting with Melo.

You look at what they gave up. DG has a higher PER than Melo this year. Felton fit there system perfectly. He a PNR PG and the reason he struggling in Portland is they don't run a ton of PNR. Wilson Chandler another potential above average starter. A young talented 7 footer. For this deal to truly be fair for the Knicks Melo has to be great. More than just a all-star but someone who can be MVP candidate. Fact is though if it wasn't for being voted in Melo likely doesn't even make the all-star team.

[Hon-essim]

You can't put it like that because the Knicks weren't trying to simply get better statistically but wanted to ring chase.

Knicks clearly got something out of that during the playoffs especially with Amare's injuries, Felton would not have helped.

It's horrible from a Knicks biased perspective but from a two team perspective, Knicks risk getting stuck because that lineup with Felton is something you have to live with for years at the time it was being considered. Denver risks Melo blowing it up because as bad as Melo was, he was able to compete with teams on the West. The weak East could have easily pushed Melo beyond that.

It was the most even trade you could do at the time. If you simply wanted Knicks to be better, then yes. Melo trade was bad. Being a Bobcats fan, I would not even give up Felton because that guy finally deserves a place like NY. You just can't ignore Denver. Denver was in a bad spot and they did the right thing while also doing it in a way that benefits the other team.

[BBgun]

can someone explain to me what the new cba did in terms of dwight not wanting to do a sign and trade? Can he not get the 5 year max from orlando and then get traded?

[humblebum]

If Howard agreed to opt in to his final year or sign an extension I think the Celtics could put together a package similar to what Denver was able to put together.

Celtics 2012 #1 (Currently #16) and Clippers #1 (Currently #23) with Rondo as the centerpiece. Add in Brandon Bass, Jajuan Johnson, Greg Steimsma and Ray Allen.

For

Dwight and Duhon

[Spin Cycle]

If Howard agreed to opt in to his final year or sign an extension I think the Celtics could put together a package similar to what Denver was able to put together.

Celtics 2012 #1 (Currently #16) and Clippers #1 (Currently #23) with Rondo as the centerpiece. Add in Brandon Bass, Jajuan Johnson, Greg Steimsma and Ray Allen.

For

Dwight and Duhon

And then Deron Williams would come to the Celtics right? Right?

[humblebum]

If Howard agreed to opt in to his final year or sign an extension I think the Celtics could put together a package similar to what Denver was able to put together.

Celtics 2012 #1 (Currently #16) and Clippers #1 (Currently #23) with Rondo as the centerpiece. Add in Brandon Bass, Jajuan Johnson, Greg Steimsma and Ray Allen.

For

Dwight and Duhon

And then Deron Williams would come to the Celtics right? Right?

It could be Deron or it could be Nash. Obviously the Celtics would be a target destination for FA's given that they'd have money to spend and Dwight.

It's obviously a longshot but I don't see many teams being able to trump Rondo, cap relief, JaJuan Johnson and 2 pretty good first rounders in next years draft.

[richboy]

If Howard agreed to opt in to his final year or sign an extension I think the Celtics could put together a package similar to what Denver was able to put together.

Celtics 2012 #1 (Currently #16) and Clippers #1 (Currently #23) with Rondo as the centerpiece. Add in Brandon Bass, Jajuan Johnson, Greg Steimsma and Ray Allen.

For

Dwight and Duhon

That deal is not good. Your trading them back Brandon Bass. 2 guys who aren't playing much with the Celtic. Ray Allen who a free agent. The deal is pretty much Rondo and 2 first for Dwight.

New Jersey has the best deal. NJ could actually trade Marshon, Lopez, Humpries, there first round draft pick which is currently number 4, Houston first round draft pick. I doubt they give up all that but if Dwight is traded it will be to NJ. Only team that could do better than that is OKC.

[humblebum]

If Howard agreed to opt in to his final year or sign an extension I think the Celtics could put together a package similar to what Denver was able to put together.

Celtics 2012 #1 (Currently #16) and Clippers #1 (Currently #23) with Rondo as the centerpiece. Add in Brandon Bass, Jajuan Johnson, Greg Steimsma and Ray Allen.

For

Dwight and Duhon

That deal is not good. Your trading them back Brandon Bass. 2 guys who aren't playing much with the Celtic. Ray Allen who a free agent. The deal is pretty much Rondo and 2 first for Dwight.

New Jersey has the best deal. NJ could actually trade Marshon, Lopez, Humpries, there first round draft pick which is currently number 4, Houston first round draft pick. I doubt they give up all that but if Dwight is traded it will be to NJ. Only team that could do better than that is OKC.

The thing is that Lopez almost has negative value in a trade because of the fact that he's going to get wildly overpaid this offseason. Getting Lopez and having to pay him 4 years and 40-50 million is not positive value.

If the Nets are really willing to include their pick without protection, than, of course, they'd move to the top of the list of suitable trade partners. My feeling is that they'd be (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to include that pick (but also the pick will lose value with Howard in NJ) when it could turn into a #1 pick.

Rondo, Jajuan Johnson (drafted in the same area as Marshon), and #16, #23 picks... Jermaine O'Neal, Ray and Bass are all expiring deals which would allow Orlando to perhaps shed a bad contract as well.

At the end of the day we're talking about Rondo/JJJ, Cap Relief and 2 mid to late firsts vs. whether or not the Nets would be willing to include their pick (again, getting Howard would weaken the value of the Nets pick), RFA Lopez, Marshon and Humphries who's expiring.

If the Nets give up their #1 pick they most likely have the best package but with Lopez injury/FA status his value is dramatically reduced.

[humblebum]

My basic point is that:

Rondo/JJJ/2 2012 First Rounders/Expiring Deals is more value than Lopez (RFA)/Marshon/Humphries/Houston pick.

If the Nets include both firsts, Lopez, Marshon than ya, they'd have the best deal.

I don't think they'd be willing to sacrifice all the value whereas the Celtics probably would.

[LarsV8]

Good for the Rockets imo.

[richboy]

Don't matter to me with Lopez. Lopez has had 2 fluke injuries. He scored 38 points against Dallas right before the last. Before this year he was pretty much healthy. Look at the Magic roster. We built the team around a center. It is the hardest position to fill in the league. Lopez is a 20 point center.

I love Rondo but the PG position is the easiest to fill in the league right now.

Even if the Jersey pick became less if Dwight is traded to them we still be in position to get a good player. I would be very surprised if Dwight is traded to NJ and they keep that pick. They just gave up a lottery pick just to get Deron. It would make no sense to not do it for Dwight and risk loosing Deron too.

I just don't think the Celtics have a package that can get even close to Dwight. If the Celtics wanted to go after Deron then they could land Dwight as a free agent. The reality is Dwight and Deron are going to find a way to play with each other most likely. If the Nets were willing to do Rondo/Allen/Pick for Deron. Then I think Dwight would go Boston as a free agent. I don't think Boston has a deal that Orlando would love for Dwight. JJJ has barely played. Rondo has an attitude. Even if not the case he seems pretty high maintenance.

You want to show me that your serious about getting Dwight then use Paul Pierce to make the package stronger. Something like Pierce to the Lakers, Gasol to Orlando. We give you back Big Baby and throw in Hedo. That would be a deal to get people excited. Rondo and Gasol coming in. Maybe I could sell that. Right now I can't imagine trying to sell Magic fans we traded Dwight for Rondo and a late round rookie who hasn't played and future picks. They rather take there chances with free agency.

The problem is this thing is just set up for Brooklyn. Boston wouldn't do this deal because there no guarantee that Dwight going to stay with them. That not going to get guaranteed unless you could get Deron to come to Boston. That isn't likely to happen because if Dwight is traded to Boston then Deron is likely going to the Lakers in a trade right after. NJ has no reason to trade Deron to Boston because they know as long as they have Deron there in good shape to get Dwight. NJ carries all the cards and that only changes if Dwight is traded to a team like OKC or Chicago. I can't even put the Lakers in that group because Dwight doesn't want to go to the Lakers if they trade Gasol to get him. The reason for that is because they need Gasol to do the Deron trade.

[infam0us]

My basic point is that:

Rondo/JJJ/2 2012 First Rounders/Expiring Deals is more value than Lopez (RFA)/Marshon/Humphries/Houston pick.

If the Nets include both firsts, Lopez, Marshon than ya, they'd have the best deal.

I don't think they'd be willing to sacrifice all the value whereas the Celtics probably would.

Nets would give that all up for Dwight. Nets management would walk to Orlando to pick up Dwight if it meant getting him. Having Deron and Dwight would be huge for the Nets.

[ChampionRed]

The Nets would literally trade anyone except Deron to get dwight. They would trade all their assets if it meant getting him. They want to win but they want to market the Brooklyn Nets more. They know that with Deron and Dwight alone, they'll be sold out every night and the team will become instantly profitable.

[BBgun]

The Nets would literally trade anyone except Deron to get dwight. They would trade all their assets if it meant getting him. They want to win but they want to market the Brooklyn Nets more. They know that with Deron and Dwight alone, they'll be sold out every night and the team will become instantly profitable.

thing is...why would nj blow up their roster to get a player who all indications suggests wants to go to nj anyways. He can just sign in the offseason and get to play with brooks and lopez and their lottery pick too. i dont see why trading for him now makes sense. If he doesnt want to go to NJ then trading for him wont keep him there...he'll just bolt. But if he does want to go to nj then he'll go there in the offseason regardless. Why trade assests that are best served to entice him to come to Brooklyn along side Deron?

[humblebum]

Don't matter to me with Lopez. Lopez has had 2 fluke injuries. He scored 38 points against Dallas right before the last. Before this year he was pretty much healthy. Look at the Magic roster. We built the team around a center. It is the hardest position to fill in the league. Lopez is a 20 point center.

I love Rondo but the PG position is the easiest to fill in the league right now.

Even if the Jersey pick became less if Dwight is traded to them we still be in position to get a good player. I would be very surprised if Dwight is traded to NJ and they keep that pick. They just gave up a lottery pick just to get Deron. It would make no sense to not do it for Dwight and risk loosing Deron too.

I just don't think the Celtics have a package that can get even close to Dwight. If the Celtics wanted to go after Deron then they could land Dwight as a free agent. The reality is Dwight and Deron are going to find a way to play with each other most likely. If the Nets were willing to do Rondo/Allen/Pick for Deron. Then I think Dwight would go Boston as a free agent. I don't think Boston has a deal that Orlando would love for Dwight. JJJ has barely played. Rondo has an attitude. Even if not the case he seems pretty high maintenance.

You want to show me that your serious about getting Dwight then use Paul Pierce to make the package stronger. Something like Pierce to the Lakers, Gasol to Orlando. We give you back Big Baby and throw in Hedo. That would be a deal to get people excited. Rondo and Gasol coming in. Maybe I could sell that. Right now I can't imagine trying to sell Magic fans we traded Dwight for Rondo and a late round rookie who hasn't played and future picks. They rather take there chances with free agency.

The problem is this thing is just set up for Brooklyn. Boston wouldn't do this deal because there no guarantee that Dwight going to stay with them. That not going to get guaranteed unless you could get Deron to come to Boston. That isn't likely to happen because if Dwight is traded to Boston then Deron is likely going to the Lakers in a trade right after. NJ has no reason to trade Deron to Boston because they know as long as they have Deron there in good shape to get Dwight. NJ carries all the cards and that only changes if Dwight is traded to a team like OKC or Chicago. I can't even put the Lakers in that group because Dwight doesn't want to go to the Lakers if they trade Gasol to get him. The reason for that is because they need Gasol to do the Deron trade.

Interesting.

Two things that I think on Howard getting traded: I don't believe that teams, given the new cap restrictions are going to be willing to take Hedo + another bad contract like Duhon or Davis (his deal is TERRIBLE, coming from a Celtics fan). But you might find a team that's willing to take back Hedo or another contract like Duhon/Meer.

I just don't see how a team that's going into a rebuild and already has a ton of bad deals (Davis, Meer, Hedo, Richardson, Duhon plus paying for Gilbert's amnesty) is going to be interested in sinking near max dollars on an all offense no defense/rebounding center in Lopez. As soon as he's signed he becomes another bad contract on the Magic books. So again, his value is greatly greatly diminished by his RFA status. His contract situation is a net negative for a team like Orlando.

When ranking all the assets being potentially on the table from NJ or Boston I'd say that, depending on where the NJ pick lands, it's either the NJ pick or Rondo as the best asset. Then you'd have the Houston and Boston/LAC firsts all being in that same value range. Than Marshon, Jajuan Johnson in that next tier of value. Then you have expiring contracts (whichever team takes back the worse contract wins... and then you have Lopez, Bass... guys who are going to be getting overpaid in FA.

It's really pretty close, especially if that pick lands in that 7-9 range.

[richboy]

The Nets would literally trade anyone except Deron to get dwight. They would trade all their assets if it meant getting him. They want to win but they want to market the Brooklyn Nets more. They know that with Deron and Dwight alone, they'll be sold out every night and the team will become instantly profitable.

thing is...why would nj blow up their roster to get a player who all indications suggests wants to go to nj anyways. He can just sign in the offseason and get to play with brooks and lopez and their lottery pick too. i dont see why trading for him now makes sense. If he doesnt want to go to NJ then trading for him wont keep him there...he'll just bolt. But if he does want to go to nj then he'll go there in the offseason regardless. Why trade assests that are best served to entice him to come to Brooklyn along side Deron?

Fear. The Magic need the Lakers to be in the mix because they would want to convince teams like NJ that Dwight might be traded there. You might think Dwight might resign with the Lakers. Same with the Bulls. Same with OKC. You are correct. If I was Dwight I would say I'm opting out no matter who trades for me. Next July 1 show me what team is in position for winning. That is the one I'll sign with. If NJ can go into next year with Dwight, Deron, Brooks, Lopez, and top pick. That is second best team in the league. Watching Dwight destroy Chicago last night if he had that kind of talent around him they are a instant 60 plus win team and title contender.

Don't matter to me with Lopez. Lopez has had 2 fluke injuries. He scored 38 points against Dallas right before the last. Before this year he was pretty much healthy. Look at the Magic roster. We built the team around a center. It is the hardest position to fill in the league. Lopez is a 20 point center.

I love Rondo but the PG position is the easiest to fill in the league right now.

Even if the Jersey pick became less if Dwight is traded to them we still be in position to get a good player. I would be very surprised if Dwight is traded to NJ and they keep that pick. They just gave up a lottery pick just to get Deron. It would make no sense to not do it for Dwight and risk loosing Deron too.

I just don't think the Celtics have a package that can get even close to Dwight. If the Celtics wanted to go after Deron then they could land Dwight as a free agent. The reality is Dwight and Deron are going to find a way to play with each other most likely. If the Nets were willing to do Rondo/Allen/Pick for Deron. Then I think Dwight would go Boston as a free agent. I don't think Boston has a deal that Orlando would love for Dwight. JJJ has barely played. Rondo has an attitude. Even if not the case he seems pretty high maintenance.

You want to show me that your serious about getting Dwight then use Paul Pierce to make the package stronger. Something like Pierce to the Lakers, Gasol to Orlando. We give you back Big Baby and throw in Hedo. That would be a deal to get people excited. Rondo and Gasol coming in. Maybe I could sell that. Right now I can't imagine trying to sell Magic fans we traded Dwight for Rondo and a late round rookie who hasn't played and future picks. They rather take there chances with free agency.

The problem is this thing is just set up for Brooklyn. Boston wouldn't do this deal because there no guarantee that Dwight going to stay with them. That not going to get guaranteed unless you could get Deron to come to Boston. That isn't likely to happen because if Dwight is traded to Boston then Deron is likely going to the Lakers in a trade right after. NJ has no reason to trade Deron to Boston because they know as long as they have Deron there in good shape to get Dwight. NJ carries all the cards and that only changes if Dwight is traded to a team like OKC or Chicago. I can't even put the Lakers in that group because Dwight doesn't want to go to the Lakers if they trade Gasol to get him. The reason for that is because they need Gasol to do the Deron trade.

Interesting.

Two things that I think on Howard getting traded: I don't believe that teams, given the new cap restrictions are going to be willing to take Hedo + another bad contract like Duhon or Davis (his deal is TERRIBLE, coming from a Celtics fan). But you might find a team that's willing to take back Hedo or another contract like Duhon/Meer.

I just don't see how a team that's going into a rebuild and already has a ton of bad deals (Davis, Meer, Hedo, Richardson, Duhon plus paying for Gilbert's amnesty) is going to be interested in sinking near max dollars on an all offense no defense/rebounding center in Lopez. As soon as he's signed he becomes another bad contract on the Magic books. So again, his value is greatly greatly diminished by his RFA status. His contract situation is a net negative for a team like Orlando.

When ranking all the assets being potentially on the table from NJ or Boston I'd say that, depending on where the NJ pick lands, it's either the NJ pick or Rondo as the best asset. Then you'd have the Houston and Boston/LAC firsts all being in that same value range. Than Marshon, Jajuan Johnson in that next tier of value. Then you have expiring contracts (whichever team takes back the worse contract wins... and then you have Lopez, Bass... guys who are going to be getting overpaid in FA.

It's really pretty close, especially if that pick lands in that 7-9 range.

Are you really comparing Lopez and Bass. Lopez is a 20 point per game scorer. Yeah he doesn't rebound. He is a skilled 23 year old 7 footer. 90% of the teams don't have a center even as good as him. You can get a PF to rebound. Bass is a journeyman PF with no trade value except maybe to help a contending team off the bench.

JJJ has to play before I give him Marshon Brooks value. They might have been drafted next to each other but right now that is the end of it. Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams was drafted right next to each other but it don't mean they have comparable trade value.

Right now your saying it a good deal to trade the second best player in the league for Rondo and a couple of picks. NJ is offering Lopez is still a borderline all-star. One of the better rookies in the league this year. Potential a top 5 pick. If I'm really tough I might be able to get Kris Humpries from them too. It isn't even close.

[Hon-essim]

Centers are hardest to fill not because of their offense but with their defense. Enough said.

Lopez is also not a traditional C.

There's nothing clear cut about this one way or the other.

[richboy]

Centers in this league with legitimate post game are hard to find. Lopez is 1. How many others?

Lopez weakness is rebounding. That is fine but realize they use to say the same thing about Pau Gasol.

[Hon-essim]

Legitimate footwork maybe. Legitimate post game? If Lopez had legitimate post game he'd be more dominant.

...and you do realize Orlando is more Memphis than Lakers right?

This is not to say Orlando can't get a steal with Lopez but it's not because Lopez is hard to replace but because Lopez ends up being a better superstar than Dwight Howard. If Lopez pans out any less, Orlando is stuck in mediocrity even if it's playoff mediocrity.

[ennui]

Centers in this league with legitimate post game are hard to find. Lopez is 1. How many others?

Lopez weakness is rebounding. That is fine but realize they use to say the same thing about Pau Gasol.

not true