This organization finally needs to evolve

[cmaff051]

Everybody has fond memories of the Dynasty years. Even though we haven't won a World Series in over 6 years, we all have fond memories of 2001-2006. The good pitching, the good lineups, the great moments.

We'll, this organization finally needs to turn the page on those years. The stars of yesterday are aging. This team needs to start getting prepared for the years when guys like Jeter, Arod and Mo are gone.

No more taking insane contracts of guys like Abreu just to make the playoffs one year. No more relying on 44 year olds like Clemens to save our season. I'm tired of relying on a team full of 30-40 year olds who aren't durable anymore and can't be relied on on a day to day basis (with the exception of Arod, Jeter and Posada).

Brian Cashman needs to take some risks. He needs to see if we can reasonable get value from Abreu, Giambi or Arod and start getting our team younger. Our pitching in the minors looks absolutely wonderful and it looks like we will have many high quality arms that can enter this big league rotation.

But the lineup is a different story. This lineup is aging. And I don't see a solution as the years go on. You can't keep expecting Posada to be Posada, he's getting older. Arod and Jeter are getting older. You can't rely on Giambi anymore. Matsui is going to have to move to DH soon. What's the solution? The only good positional prospect we have in the minors is Tabata. There is literally nobody else in the pipeline. I know we have some nice international free agent prospects, but those guys are 4-5 years away.

This organization needs a plan. They can't keep relying on blockbuster after blockbuster year after year (Abreu and Clemens). We are going to bent over the barrel via free agency if this organization doesn't evolve and realize that the core of this team is aging.

[nykgeneralmanager]

The reason we stacked up on pitching prospects is because great pitchers are impossible to find on the free agent market for any less than $18 million a season.

Hitters on the other hand are plentiful, you can get solid players for $5 million and great hitters for $12-15 million. We can always go get guys like Andruw Jones, Ichiro, Torri Hunter, etc. on the market...but we can't always get guys like Johan Santana.

I disagree A LOT about moving ARod. You don't move your best hitter, and consequently your 2nd YOUNGEST hitter. If you want to shop Giambi, Abreu, even Matsui or Damon...fine...but not ARod. He has to stay here until he retires. He is one of the best all time and as I said, sadly one of our youngest hitters.

[cmaff051]

The reason we stacked up on pitching prospects is because great pitchers are impossible to find on the free agent market for any less than $18 million a season.

Pitching is not our problem, I agree. We should have a plentiful amount of arms, and if Santana hits free agency, god help Cashman if he doesn't get Santana..

Hitters on the other hand are plentiful, you can get solid players for $5 million and great hitters for $12-15 million.

Great hitters start at $15 million. I fully expect Ichiro to command about $15 million in free agency this year. Andruw Jones... wow, he is going to get a big time deal.

We can always go get guys like Andruw Jones, Ichiro, Torri Hunter, etc. on the market...but we can't always get guys like Johan Santana.

The problem I have with relying on free agent hitters so much is that they will often be 30 or so after arbitration and when they enter free agency.. we are getting them when they are slowly leaving their prime. I don't want this team to lock up 30 year old hitters once they hit free agency and lock them up for 5-6 years all the time.

I disagree A LOT about moving ARod. You don't move your best hitter, and consequently your 2nd YOUNGEST hitter.

The reason I say Arod is because I have a big hunch he'll opt out. His agent is Scott Boras, I expect nothing less from Boras. Arod could garner you a legit front of the rotation starter or big-time prospect, he has great value. I guess I am paranoid about Arod opting out and leaving us bent over a barrel... we have NO backup plan if that happens.

If you want to shop Giambi, Abreu, even Matsui or Damon...fine...but not ARod. He has to stay here until he retires. He is one of the best all time and as I said, sadly one of our youngest hitters.

Matsui has a full NTC and it's going anywhere. Besides, I don't want him gone.. I think he'll be a mighty fine DH once Giambi is gone. On the other hand, the others are not off limits and I would entertain trades.

[Jitpal]

I really do agree with you. Which is why I have been on the Lowry/Sanchez deal. We do have some great young arms but no lefties. They are all righties. Anyways, I think we need to keep/deal these guys:

Keep:
Brian Bruney
Phil Hughes
Mariano Rivera
Chein-Ming Wang
Jorge Posada
Robinson Cano
Derek Jeter
Alex Rodriguez

Trade:
Kyle Farnsworth
Mike Mussina
Mike Myers
Carl Pavano
Ron Villone
Luis Vizcaino
Miguel Cairo
Bobby Abreu
Jhonny Damon
Jason Giambi

Deal for the right pieces:
Tyler Clippard
Matt DeSalvo
Jeff Karstens
Scott Procter
Darrell Rasner
Doug Mientkiewicz
Josh Phelps
Melky Cabrera

Andy Pettitte will opt out. Roger is a one year deal. Matsui won't be dealt because of all the money he brings in. -Jitpal

[nykgeneralmanager]

The problem I have with relying on free agent hitters so much is that they will often be 30 or so after arbitration and when they enter free agency.. we are getting them when they are slowly leaving their prime. I don't want this team to lock up 30 year old hitters once they hit free agency and lock them up for 5-6 years all the time.

Sometimes you have to catch guys right off their rookie contracts after their arbitration, as we did with Giambi and as the Mets did with Beltran. There are players out there who may reach that point soon, such as Miguel Cabrera. Guys aren't ALWAYS 30 when they reach the market.

[34Celtic]

Trade:
Kyle Farnsworth
Mike Mussina
Mike Myers
Carl Pavano
Ron Villone
Luis Vizcaino
Miguel Cairo
Bobby Abreu
Jhonny Damon
Jason Giambi

You do realize that all these guys have very low value right now. You're going to bring in 50 cents on the dollar. Baseball is like finance ladies and gentlemen....YOU BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH

[ReggieFULLeffect]

Brian Cashman needs to take some risks. He needs to see if we can reasonable get value from Abreu, Giambi or Arod and start getting our team younger. Our pitching in the minors looks absolutely wonderful and it looks like we will have many high quality arms that can enter this big league rotation.

Why would we ever trade A-Rod? You don't trade away your best player and one of the younger ones.

As for you Jitpal, I like where you are going with who to trade and who to keep but right now, most of those players have an awful value because they are performing so poorly so who could we possibly get for a package of any of those guys sans Giambi or Abreu.

Hell I'd trade them if we wer'e getting back a young RF who can hit or a future 1B who is also young but, who's going to give up anything like that for a guy who appears to be losing it and another guy who is surrounded by a steroid controversy(not to mention is involved in a ludicrous contract because Cashman stinks).

We're stuck gentlemen. I'd rather bite the bullet and keep these guys rather than panic and trade them for injury prone SPs and others who will never amount to anything. If the price is right though, then yea, of course, let's do it.

[cmaff051]

Remove Arod from my point. Whatever. I love Arod. I just don't know if he'll ever be accepted here unless he hits 15 HRs every month. And he does have the most value. Like it or not.

[Jitpal]

Brian Cashman needs to take some risks. He needs to see if we can reasonable get value from Abreu, Giambi or Arod and start getting our team younger. Our pitching in the minors looks absolutely wonderful and it looks like we will have many high quality arms that can enter this big league rotation.

Why would we ever trade A-Rod? You don't trade away your best player and one of the younger ones.

As for you Jitpal, I like where you are going with who to trade and who to keep but right now, most of those players have an awful value because they are performing so poorly so who could we possibly get for a package of any of those guys sans Giambi or Abreu.

Hell I'd trade them if we wer'e getting back a young RF who can hit or a future 1B who is also young but, who's going to give up anything like that for a guy who appears to be losing it and another guy who is surrounded by a steroid controversy(not to mention is involved in a ludicrous contract because Cashman stinks).

We're stuck gentlemen. I'd rather bite the bullet and keep these guys rather than panic and trade them for injury prone SPs and others who will never amount to anything. If the price is right though, then yea, of course, let's do it.

Well I'm not saying we go out and deal them all today on the 23rd of May. I say we listen to offers. If we get a good one then execute the deal. I'm not saying liquidate the contracts. If you don't get the good deal now, then you look to deal after the World Series. Then you fill in the holes with guys like Eric Byrnes, Joe Nathan, Adam Dunn, Mark Buerhle, and David Eckstein. Stockpile the prospects, make some deals with some of those prospects to get some young major league players from teams who might salary constraints or other issues. Go for players like Rios(Salary constraints), Teixeira (salary), Saltalamachia (player in front of him) and other guys like that with those young stockpiled guys. -Jitpal

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-


Well I'm not saying we go out and deal them all today on the 23rd of May. I say we listen to offers. If we get a good one then execute the deal. I'm not saying liquidate the contracts. If you don't get the good deal now, then you look to deal after the World Series. Then you fill in the holes with guys like Eric Byrnes, Joe Nathan, Adam Dunn, Mark Buerhle, and David Eckstein. Stockpile the prospects, make some deals with some of those prospects to get some young major league players from teams who might salary constraints or other issues. Go for players like Rios(Salary constraints), Teixeira (salary), Saltalamachia (player in front of him) and other guys like that with those young stockpiled guys. -Jitpal

Rios doesn't have salary constraints....he isn't a free agent until 2011. Teixera wont be traded this year, and Salty is going to be traded for an arm to help the Braves win now, not future prospects.

[VinnyTheMick]

No one knew Abreu would fall off like this.

[NYKnSTILL!]

Teixera's going to Baltimore

[34Celtic]

Teixera's going to Baltimore

Thats what I heard too. But I know he grew up idolizing Donnie, so I'm holding out hope that he'll come here. My brother was telling me he saw Teixera wanted to go to Baltimore too.

Still do you have a link?

[Jitpal]

I've heard the Baltimore thing also but I look at it this way. Baltimore does not have enough cash to keep all of Markakis, Roberts, Tejada, Lowen, Cabrera, Bedard and Patterson all while signing Teixeira to a massive deal. I just don't see it. -Jitpal

[34Celtic]

I've heard the Baltimore thing also but I look at it this way. Baltimore does not have enough cash to keep all of Markakis, Roberts, Tejada, Lowen, Cabrera, Bedard and Patterson all while signing Teixeira to a massive deal. I just don't see it. -Jitpal

Markakis: 2007-08: Near Minimum, 2009-11: Arb. Eligible, 2012: Free Agent

Roberts: 2007: $4.2 million, 2008: Arb. Eligible, 2009: Free Agent

Tejada: 12 mil a year through 2009

Lowen: 2007-09: Near Minimum, 2010-12: Arb. Eligible, 2013: Free Agent

Cabrera: 2007: $1.825 million, 2008-10: Arb. Eligible, 2011: Free Agent

Bedard: 2007-09: Arb. Eligible, 2010: Free Agent

Patterson: Free Agent after this year

I think they can find a replacement for Patterson.

Funny story about Bedard....My grandfather scouted him at Norwalk Community College...they no longer have a baseball team because their coach would bring kids in that didn't even have a high school degree or GED. Thus, the reason why Bedard was only there for a year. He said he was the only pitcher in that juco league throwing 91-92. Never asked him how a kid from Canada ended up in Norwalk, Ct.