Official Speculation Thread (Pt XVI, Mods Close)

[drsd]

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Only three more days of this thread!



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[CKRT]

In anticipation of the OKC thread being closed, here's my post from the thread. I'm an OKC fan, I come in peace, and I sincerely hope you guys play the Heat in the second round. The Magic would give them fits.

Where did you read that?

OKC fan here. I don't think Presti is a big fan of Dwight's character. That may be a big part of any non-interest.

IMO, it makes more sense for a package around Westbrook/Ibaka/Perk then Harden/Ibaka.

I'd prefer we sign a vet min PG with the rest of the roster as Harden/Durant/Collison/Howard, then Westbrook/Thabo/Durant/Collison/Howard

Both rosters amount to a champshionship, with the second having better defense. I've been a HUGE Harden fan since we drafted him, so I'm probably biased on keeping him.

I also believe that since Orlando management wants to remain in the playoffs, they would prefer a package centered around Westbrook and with Ryan as your PF, Westbrook is going to be much better in the AST% and APG. Westbrook feasted when he had Nenad and Green to run Pick and Pops with, and Ibaka/Perkins have stone hands and generally are terrible on offense. Especially Perkins.

[MiracleBZop]

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Only three more days of this thread!



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aww poor DJ. Now he won't have anything to do for awhile

[ADRajX]

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Only three more days of this thread!



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aww poor DJ. Now he won't have anything to do for awhile

pssh are you kidding me!? I can't wait for this to go away for a while ... I NEED A BREAK ... once Thursday is gone, I'm saying "see ya later" to this thread for the next 3 or 4 months... I'll bring it back in July or something just in time for the meaty off-season stuff (Free Agency, Draft, Training Camp)... then again for next season's trade deadline.... and so on.

but yeah, I'm happy the deadline is almost here. I'm ready to be over it.

[The Real Dalic]

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Only three more days of this thread!



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aww poor DJ. Now he won't have anything to do for awhile

pssh are you kidding me!? I can't wait for this to go away for a while ... I NEED A BREAK ... once Thursday is gone, I'm saying "see ya later" to this thread for the next 3 or 4 months... I'll bring it back in July or something just in time for the meaty off-season stuff (Free Agency, Draft, Training Camp)... then again for next season's trade deadline.... and so on.

but yeah, I'm happy the deadline is almost here. I'm ready to be over it.

Me too.

[ADRajX]

In anticipation of the OKC thread being closed, here's my post from the thread. I'm an OKC fan, I come in peace, and I sincerely hope you guys play the Heat in the second round. The Magic would give them fits.

Where did you read that?

OKC fan here. I don't think Presti is a big fan of Dwight's character. That may be a big part of any non-interest.

IMO, it makes more sense for a package around Westbrook/Ibaka/Perk then Harden/Ibaka.

I'd prefer we sign a vet min PG with the rest of the roster as Harden/Durant/Collison/Howard, then Westbrook/Thabo/Durant/Collison/Howard

Both rosters amount to a champshionship, with the second having better defense. I've been a HUGE Harden fan since we drafted him, so I'm probably biased on keeping him.

I also believe that since Orlando management wants to remain in the playoffs, they would prefer a package centered around Westbrook and with Ryan as your PF, Westbrook is going to be much better in the AST% and APG. Westbrook feasted when he had Nenad and Green to run Pick and Pops with, and Ibaka/Perkins have stone hands and generally are terrible on offense. Especially Perkins.

I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character.

As far as Westbrook being a better trade piece to trade to us instead of Harden... I would be all over that deal in a heartbeat (Westbrook/Ibaka/Perkins).

But I think you're right about one thing... OKC probably doesn't want to take the chance on giving up guys like Harden, Westbrook, and/or Ibaka for a Dwight "rental" and then lose him in the summer. It's too great of a risk.

[CKRT]

I don't really follow Howard or the Magic's trade rumors or anything simply because some of the trades were absolutely ridiculous, but one of my fellow posters on the OKC board mentioned that he threw some teammates under the bus in an interview awhile ago. Is that true? If it is, then that's probably a big red flag for Presti...he cares a lot about character/chemistry with what he's built here.

Not saying that's the right move here, but with some of the reports that i have read mention Howard not wanting to be a 2nd option, and he would be here in OKC. Not sure how much truth or validity there is for that, but it's worth thinking about.

[Driguez]

I can see how an outsider would like at Dwight's character and have his doubts.

[Horcy]

Where did you read that?

OKC fan here. I don't think Presti is a big fan of Dwight's character. That may be a big part of any non-interest.

IMO, it makes more sense for a package around Westbrook/Ibaka/Perk then Harden/Ibaka.

I'd prefer we sign a vet min PG with the rest of the roster as Harden/Durant/Collison/Howard, then Westbrook/Thabo/Durant/Collison/Howard

Both rosters amount to a champshionship, with the second having better defense. I've been a HUGE Harden fan since we drafted him, so I'm probably biased on keeping him.

I also read on ESPN that OKC would not trade for Howard, given the likely cost in personel.

As for Howard's character: he is one of the best character guys in the NBA. He is humble. And works his tail off. He is a motivator on and off of the court; in the locker room, in the hall-way with the press core, in practice, etc. he only "problem" with Howard is that sometimes the media fails to take him seriously with all the clowning around he displays. But no GM in the league would make a trade
decision based on only the media's wishes.

He's not so humble these days...

[bonanz]

I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character.

what? are you kidding me? i think people around the league view dwight in a similar light to rondo, just goofier. self centered, ego maniac, clown, i don't know where you got sincere as he says he requests a trade to the effin' nets because "he wants to win" but says no to chicago that literally has the whole basketball world scratching their head like wtf? he throws his team under the bus multiple times this year. after we win a game were JJ makes some clutch plays that basically win it for us and dwight bricks free throws and 12 foot running hooks, they interview him after the game and all he can talk about is "man i could have won it with my shots and my free throws". sure he can be mad at himself, but you could tell it wasnt that, it was aww man someone else got the glory...

his attitude this season doesn't show me he's a competitor, he never really has had that attitude. His individual talent is undeniable and he's gonna get his numbers, but the way he's like the smart kid in class who doesn't really need to do much to ace the test. He's never been one to light a fire under his teammates and have the eye of the tiger.

you look at okc and you can see they're building a team with the attitude of a bunch of stone cold killers that will win a ring one day. when they make a bad play in the last minutes of a close game, you don't see them all cheesin' like aww shucks.

i was reading on the nets board and even they were concerned about dwights character, and if he doesn't end up there, they are totally effed.

in some ways i feel like he almost has to go for us to get better. i don't think we'll ever be able to be great under his "leadership" with role players around him. he needs someone like derek rose or durant to put him in his place and put the fire under him. when he's young and coming up in the game, someone like battie could give him some guidance and veteran leadership. he's been in the league long enough now where i don't really see him listening to anyone unless they're more talented like rose or durant on the same team, which directly goes against the reports of him wanting to be "the guy".

that's part of the reason i think it wouldn't be bad if we were able to swap sjax for hedo somehow if dwight stayed. because sjax has that hard work head down win under any circumstance type of attitude and dwight would probably listen to him. I was hoping that part of baby would come here and rub off, but the other half of baby is so damn goofy, it just plays into dwights weaknesses.

/end rant

so yeah, i could definitely see why any team would be suspicious of his character after the cancer he has become. he's like the cancer that john travolta movie phenomenon where he has that brain tumor that makes him all smart and able to move things with his mind, it makes you amazingly better for a while and you think it's awesome, until you realize its going to kill you

[ADRajX]

I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character.

what? are you kidding me? i think people around the league view dwight in a similar light to rondo, just goofier. self centered, ego maniac, clown, i don't know where you got sincere as he says he requests a trade to the effin' nets because "he wants to win" but says no to chicago that literally has the whole basketballworld scratching their head like wtf? he throws his team under the bus multiple times this year. after we win a game were JJ makes some clutch plays that basically win it for us and dwight bricks free throws and 12 foot running hooks, they interview him after the game and all he can talk about is "man i could have won it with my shots and my free throws". sure he can be mad at himself, but you could tell it wasnt that, it was aww man someone else got the glory...

his attitude this season doesn't show me he's a competitor, he never really has had that attitude. His individual talent is undeniable and he's gonna get his numbers, but the way he's like the smart kid in class who doesn't really need to do much to ace the test. He's never been one to light a fire under his teammates and have the eye of the tiger.

you look at okc and you can see they're building a team with the attitude of a bunch of stone cold killers that will win a ring one day. when they make a bad play in the last minutes of a close game, you don't see them all cheesin' like aww shucks.

i was reading on the nets board and even they were concerned about dwights character, and if he doesn't end up there, they are totally effed.

in some ways i feel like he almost has to go for us to get better. i don't think we'll ever be able to be great under his "leadership" with role players around him. he needs someone like derek rose or durant to put him in his place and put the fire under him. when he's young and coming up in the game, someone like battie could give him some guidance and veteran leadership. he's been in the league long enough now where i don't really see him listening to anyone unless they're more talented like rose or durant on the same team, which directly goes against the reports of him wanting to be "the guy".

that's part of the reason i think it wouldn't be bad if we were able to swap sjax for hedo somehow if dwight stayed. because sjax has that hard work head down win under any circumstance type of attitude and dwight would probably listen to him. I was hoping that part of baby would come here and rub off, but the other half of baby is so damn goofy, it just plays into dwights weaknesses.

/end rant

so yeah, i could definitely see why any team would be suspicious of his character after the cancer he has become. he's like the cancer that john travolta movie phenomenon where he has that brain tumor that makes him all smart and able to move things with his mind, it makes you amazingly better for a while and you think it's awesome, until you realize its going to kill you

Listen, I understand your frustrations. I know Dwight has made some hypocritical statements... Dwight said some things that ticked me off too the past few months... throwing his teammates under the bus, the comments made to Boston and Chicago newspapers, etc... but that's all basketball-business related stuff among Dwight, his team's front office, and his agent... it has nothing to do with his real life personality or character in the locker room or on/off the court... it's just business, the NBA is a business, and at the end of the day it's Dwight's decision on where he wants to go, it's his life and happiness.. he has an agent, he has his motives, and I don't think any of that stuff is the proper basis for judging a man's true character... it's not all about basketball, seriously... in fact none of us should judge, considering we're all not perfect either ... Dwight outside of basketball is actually a really nice guy and treats people respectably (and he's pretty down to earth in real life, having met him a few times), and he has done a lot for his community... and for you to ignore that is kind of asinine... Dwight isn't a bad person by any means, I'm sorry. 3 months of this business related/NBA trade request drama doesn't wash away 26 years of a man's real-life personality, and his true personal character.

What, for 7 years with the Magic Dwight was a good guy (right?), but all of sudden the past 3 months has turned him into this big egomaniac jerk? Come on. He's going through some tough stuff, and he wants change in his profession/business life (whether it's being with this team or not, again that doesn't matter in judging a person's true character... it's just business)... people that are angry at Dwight are the fans that have a bias and hurt feelings towards him (me being one of them, I have blasted Dwight before in a few threads this season for his comments... but I came back to my senses after I got over my overreactions and frustrations).

Dwight isn't a cancer... I think you're overreacting... he isn't perfect, and it's been a tough season on the fans (with his trade requests and what not), and I'll surely be upset IF he leaves... but to say he's a cancer, an egomaniac, and that he's basically an awful person (judging from your comments) is kind of ridiculous, no offense. Those are some bad descriptions of a man, and I don't think Dwight is that person in real life imo.

*I apologize for my stream of consciousness response/rebuttal, surely there are grammatical and spelling errors; it's 4am, it's late*

[ChosenSavior]

I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character.

what? are you kidding me? i think people around the league view dwight in a similar light to rondo, just goofier. self centered, ego maniac, clown, i don't know where you got sincere as he says he requests a trade to the effin' nets because "he wants to win" but says no to chicago that literally has the whole basketball world scratching their head like wtf? he throws his team under the bus multiple times this year. after we win a game were JJ makes some clutch plays that basically win it for us and dwight bricks free throws and 12 foot running hooks, they interview him after the game and all he can talk about is "man i could have won it with my shots and my free throws". sure he can be mad at himself, but you could tell it wasnt that, it was aww man someone else got the glory...

his attitude this season doesn't show me he's a competitor, he never really has had that attitude. His individual talent is undeniable and he's gonna get his numbers, but the way he's like the smart kid in class who doesn't really need to do much to ace the test. He's never been one to light a fire under his teammates and have the eye of the tiger.

you look at okc and you can see they're building a team with the attitude of a bunch of stone cold killers that will win a ring one day. when they make a bad play in the last minutes of a close game, you don't see them all cheesin' like aww shucks.

i was reading on the nets board and even they were concerned about dwights character, and if he doesn't end up there, they are totally effed.

in some ways i feel like he almost has to go for us to get better. i don't think we'll ever be able to be great under his "leadership" with role players around him. he needs someone like derek rose or durant to put him in his place and put the fire under him. when he's young and coming up in the game, someone like battie could give him some guidance and veteran leadership. he's been in the league long enough now where i don't really see him listening to anyone unless they're more talented like rose or durant on the same team, which directly goes against the reports of him wanting to be "the guy".

that's part of the reason i think it wouldn't be bad if we were able to swap sjax for hedo somehow if dwight stayed. because sjax has that hard work head down win under any circumstance type of attitude and dwight would probably listen to him. I was hoping that part of baby would come here and rub off, but the other half of baby is so damn goofy, it just plays into dwights weaknesses.

/end rant

so yeah, i could definitely see why any team would be suspicious of his character after the cancer he has become. he's like the cancer that john travolta movie phenomenon where he has that brain tumor that makes him all smart and able to move things with his mind, it makes you amazingly better for a while and you think it's awesome, until you realize its going to kill you

This is a damn good post right here. Well said.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character.

what? are you kidding me? i think people around the league view dwight in a similar light to rondo, just goofier. self centered, ego maniac, clown, i don't know where you got sincere as he says he requests a trade to the effin' nets because "he wants to win" but says no to chicago that literally has the whole basketballworld scratching their head like wtf? he throws his team under the bus multiple times this year. after we win a game were JJ makes some clutch plays that basically win it for us and dwight bricks free throws and 12 foot running hooks, they interview him after the game and all he can talk about is "man i could have won it with my shots and my free throws". sure he can be mad at himself, but you could tell it wasnt that, it was aww man someone else got the glory...

his attitude this season doesn't show me he's a competitor, he never really has had that attitude. His individual talent is undeniable and he's gonna get his numbers, but the way he's like the smart kid in class who doesn't really need to do much to ace the test. He's never been one to light a fire under his teammates and have the eye of the tiger.

you look at okc and you can see they're building a team with the attitude of a bunch of stone cold killers that will win a ring one day. when they make a bad play in the last minutes of a close game, you don't see them all cheesin' like aww shucks.

i was reading on the nets board and even they were concerned about dwights character, and if he doesn't end up there, they are totally effed.

in some ways i feel like he almost has to go for us to get better. i don't think we'll ever be able to be great under his "leadership" with role players around him. he needs someone like derek rose or durant to put him in his place and put the fire under him. when he's young and coming up in the game, someone like battie could give him some guidance and veteran leadership. he's been in the league long enough now where i don't really see him listening to anyone unless they're more talented like rose or durant on the same team, which directly goes against the reports of him wanting to be "the guy".

that's part of the reason i think it wouldn't be bad if we were able to swap sjax for hedo somehow if dwight stayed. because sjax has that hard work head down win under any circumstance type of attitude and dwight would probably listen to him. I was hoping that part of baby would come here and rub off, but the other half of baby is so damn goofy, it just plays into dwights weaknesses.

/end rant

so yeah, i could definitely see why any team would be suspicious of his character after the cancer he has become. he's like the cancer that john travolta movie phenomenon where he has that brain tumor that makes him all smart and able to move things with his mind, it makes you amazingly better for a while and you think it's awesome, until you realize its going to kill you

Listen, I understand your frustrations. I know Dwight has made some hypocritical statements... Dwight said some things that ticked me off too the past few months... throwing his teammates under the bus, the comments made to Boston and Chicago newspapers, etc... but that's all basketball-business related stuff among Dwight, his team's front office, and his agent... it has nothing to do with his real life personality or character in the locker room or on/off the court... it's just business, the NBA is a business, and at the end of the day it's Dwight's decision on where he wants to go, it's his life and happiness.. he has an agent, he has his motives, and I don't think any of that stuff is the proper basis for judging a man's true character... it's not all about basketball, seriously... in fact none of us should judge, considering we're all not perfect either ... Dwight outside of basketball is actually a really nice guy and treats people respectably (and he's pretty down to earth in real life, having met him a few times), and he has done a lot for his community... and for you to ignore that is kind of asinine... Dwight isn't a bad person by any means, I'm sorry. 3 months of a business trade request drama doesn't wash away 26 years of a man's real-life personality, and his true personal character.

What, for 7 years with the Magic Dwight was a good guy (right?), but all of sudden the past 3 months has turned him into this big egomaniac jerk? Come on. He's going through some tough stuff, and he wants change in his profession/business life (whether it's being with this team or not, again that doesn't matter in judging a person's true character... it's just business)... people that are angry at Dwight are the fans that have a bias and hurt feelings towards him (me being one of them, I have blasted Dwight before in a few threads this season for his comments... but I came back to my senses after I got over my overreactions and frustrations).

Dwight isn't a cancer... I think you're overreacting... he isn't perfect, and it's been a tough season on the fans (with his trade requests and what not), and I'll surely be upset IF he leaves... but to say he's a cancer, an egomaniac, and that he's basically an awful person (judging from your comments) is kind of ridiculous, no offense. Those are some bad descriptions of a man, and I don't think Dwight is that person in real life imo.

Hell of a Post DJ

[MiracleBZop]

what? are you kidding me? i think people around the league view dwight in a similar light to rondo, just goofier. self centered, ego maniac, clown, i don't know where you got sincere as he says he requests a trade to the effin' nets because "he wants to win" but says no to chicago that literally has the whole basketballworld scratching their head like wtf? he throws his team under the bus multiple times this year. after we win a game were JJ makes some clutch plays that basically win it for us and dwight bricks free throws and 12 foot running hooks, they interview him after the game and all he can talk about is "man i could have won it with my shots and my free throws". sure he can be mad at himself, but you could tell it wasnt that, it was aww man someone else got the glory...

his attitude this season doesn't show me he's a competitor, he never really has had that attitude. His individual talent is undeniable and he's gonna get his numbers, but the way he's like the smart kid in class who doesn't really need to do much to ace the test. He's never been one to light a fire under his teammates and have the eye of the tiger.

you look at okc and you can see they're building a team with the attitude of a bunch of stone cold killers that will win a ring one day. when they make a bad play in the last minutes of a close game, you don't see them all cheesin' like aww shucks.

i was reading on the nets board and even they were concerned about dwights character, and if he doesn't end up there, they are totally effed.

in some ways i feel like he almost has to go for us to get better. i don't think we'll ever be able to be great under his "leadership" with role players around him. he needs someone like derek rose or durant to put him in his place and put the fire under him. when he's young and coming up in the game, someone like battie could give him some guidance and veteran leadership. he's been in the league long enough now where i don't really see him listening to anyone unless they're more talented like rose or durant on the same team, which directly goes against the reports of him wanting to be "the guy".

that's part of the reason i think it wouldn't be bad if we were able to swap sjax for hedo somehow if dwight stayed. because sjax has that hard work head down win under any circumstance type of attitude and dwight would probably listen to him. I was hoping that part of baby would come here and rub off, but the other half of baby is so damn goofy, it just plays into dwights weaknesses.

/end rant

so yeah, i could definitely see why any team would be suspicious of his character after the cancer he has become. he's like the cancer that john travolta movie phenomenon where he has that brain tumor that makes him all smart and able to move things with his mind, it makes you amazingly better for a while and you think it's awesome, until you realize its going to kill you

Listen, I understand your frustrations. I know Dwight has made some hypocritical statements... Dwight said some things that ticked me off too the past few months... throwing his teammates under the bus, the comments made to Boston and Chicago newspapers, etc... but that's all basketball-business related stuff among Dwight, his team's front office, and his agent... it has nothing to do with his real life personality or character in the locker room or on/off the court... it's just business, the NBA is a business, and at the end of the day it's Dwight's decision on where he wants to go, it's his life and happiness.. he has an agent, he has his motives, and I don't think any of that stuff is the proper basis for judging a man's true character... it's not all about basketball, seriously... in fact none of us should judge, considering we're all not perfect either ... Dwight outside of basketball is actually a really nice guy and treats people respectably (and he's pretty down to earth in real life, having met him a few times), and he has done a lot for his community... and for you to ignore that is kind of asinine... Dwight isn't a bad person by any means, I'm sorry. 3 months of this business related/NBA trade request drama doesn't wash away 26 years of a man's real-life personality, and his true personal character.

What, for 7 years with the Magic Dwight was a good guy (right?), but all of sudden the past 3 months has turned him into this big egomaniac jerk? Come on. He's going through some tough stuff, and he wants change in his profession/business life (whether it's being with this team or not, again that doesn't matter in judging a person's true character... it's just business)... people that are angry at Dwight are the fans that have a bias and hurt feelings towards him (me being one of them, I have blasted Dwight before in a few threads this season for his comments... but I came back to my senses after I got over my overreactions and frustrations).

Dwight isn't a cancer... I think you're overreacting... he isn't perfect, and it's been a tough season on the fans (with his trade requests and what not), and I'll surely be upset IF he leaves... but to say he's a cancer, an egomaniac, and that he's basically an awful person (judging from your comments) is kind of ridiculous, no offense. Those are some bad descriptions of a man, and I don't think Dwight is that person in real life imo.

*I apologize for my stream of consciousness response/rebuttal, surely there are grammatical and spelling errors; it's 4am, it's late*

+1 DJ gets it. I think as fans we invest our emotions way too much into players and their lives. Of course there will be anger, resentment, and harsh feelings when we do invest our emotions so deeply in a player that has been such a huge facet of the team we root for. The way players are in the NBA on the floor and off the floor behind "business" curtains|doors doesn't necessarily reflect how they are in real life outside that life of sports, celebrity|athlete, and entertainment. Dwight Howard is a good guy and has been a wonderful person & asset to his community for a variety of reasons. Most educated rational people should know that much.

[bonanz]

i don't think dj does get it, you're trying to talk to me as if i'm some kinda kid knee jerk reacting. i'm about as level headed as it gets.

no dwight wasnt a good teammate for 7 years. it started to deteriorate around the year we went to the finals. his ego grew. he was bigger than the team. he was a rookie on the come up for a few years putting in work respecting coaches and teammates and listening. it's been plain as day its been getting worse, but it's not like he's sjax on the bux bad, but you can see it.

then it became i need more touches and call my plays in crunch time and rolling his eyes at vangundy. the negative body language, brow beating his teammates on the floor (screaming "C'MON RYAN!" if he misses some rotation or something) the not being able to control himself from getting technicals. all of that, it didn't happen in the last 3 months its been getting worse for years. you throw in a stupid otis trade or two and we get shallower in the playoffs each year, and here we are full blown primadonna status.

i didn't attack him personally, his character as a teammate and basketball leadership is 100% up for question. an okc fan said presti would be concerned about it, and you said you don't see it, and i think it's pretty easy to see why he could think that unless you're looking through rose colored glasses and get fooled by his cheesin and antics and made the case for how it could easily appear to be a character question.

I'm not mad at him for wanting to leave, you just can't make some people happy. i never said anything was wrong with him wanting to leave. i never attacked him as a person off the basketball court. i don't know what you're getting bent out of shape for defending him like he's your buddy or something. i didn't say he was an awful person or a jerk like you claim. I said his action don't align with beign a competitor like he claims to be, his claims of just wanting to win are disingenuous and insincere, he has a tremendous ego as evidenced by reports of wanting more advertising and raised status a la lebron in cleveland and complaining about not getting a private jet to the allstar games etc and flip flopping so nobody thinks he's a bad guy, now throwing teammates under the bus to the media. i mean all of that is not a leader on a basketball team. all of that i can easily see why you can see presti look at his lockerroom and harden and ibaka and look at bringing a high maintenance class clown rental. very easy to understand.

i don't understand why you think i'm angry or am implying that i'm emotional about dwights behavior. i've met dwight plenty of times also and he was always friendly, but that doesn't mean anything, just like you can't determine a waiters character (good or bad, so you don't read into it) when you dine at a restaurant.

edit: i just want to add also, i read the original comment from the okc fan, and he did say "character." i think it's easy to understand he was talking about the type of things i mentioned: team chemistry, basketball leadership, and morale effects. I'm sure he wasn't talking about dwight's babies mamas or weed/gun charges or whatever.

[Tayswagzzz]

I was really thinking Dwight would cave in by now and give us a straight answer if he's staying or leaving...I mean, he's gotta be tired of all the questions. It's true we don't know the situation. But if I had to guess, there has been some serious issues with him and the magic FO, particularly with Otis. I believe Martins was never involved in the disputes so he's trying to be a mediator between the parties so they can work it out. Anyways, whatever happens to Dwight I'll always wish him the best. I sure do hope he stays though.

[bonanz]

if he's made up his mind he wants to leave, he's not going to say anything now because they will trade him for the best deal (which may not be what he wants). and i don't think you can trade a player like dwight if he hasn't said 100% that he's gone. the real history will be rewritten to make alex look dumb if he leaves either way.

[Bensational]

i don't think dj does get it, you're trying to talk to me as if i'm some kinda kid knee jerk reacting. i'm about as level headed as it gets.

no dwight wasnt a good teammate for 7 years. it started to deteriorate around the year we went to the finals. his ego grew. he was bigger than the team. he was a rookie on the come up for a few years putting in work respecting coaches and teammates and listening. it's been plain as day its been getting worse, but it's not like he's sjax on the bux bad, but you can see it.

then it became i need more touches and call my plays in crunch time and rolling his eyes at vangundy. the negative body language, brow beating his teammates on the floor (screaming "C'MON RYAN!" if he misses some rotation or something) the not being able to control himself from getting technicals. all of that, it didn't happen in the last 3 months its been getting worse for years. you throw in a stupid otis trade or two and we get shallower in the playoffs each year, and here we are full blown primadonna status.

i didn't attack him personally, his character as a teammate and basketball leadership is 100% up for question. an okc fan said presti would be concerned about it, and you said you don't see it, and i think it's pretty easy to see why he could think that unless you're looking through rose colored glasses and get fooled by his cheesin and antics and made the case for how it could easily appear to be a character question.

I'm not mad at him for wanting to leave, you just can't make some people happy. i never said anything was wrong with him wanting to leave. i never attacked him as a person off the basketball court. i don't know what you're getting bent out of shape for defending him like he's your buddy or something. i didn't say he was an awful person or a jerk like you claim. I said his action don't align with beign a competitor like he claims to be, his claims of just wanting to win are disingenuous and insincere, he has a tremendous ego as evidenced by reports of wanting more advertising and raised status a la lebron in cleveland and complaining about not getting a private jet to the allstar games etc and flip flopping so nobody thinks he's a bad guy, now throwing teammates under the bus to the media. i mean all of that is not a leader on a basketball team. all of that i can easily see why you can see presti look at his lockerroom and harden and ibaka and look at bringing a high maintenance class clown rental. very easy to understand.

i don't understand why you think i'm angry or am implying that i'm emotional about dwights behavior. i've met dwight plenty of times also and he was always friendly, but that doesn't mean anything, just like you can't determine a waiters character (good or bad, so you don't read into it) when you dine at a restaurant.

edit: i just want to add also, i read the original comment from the okc fan, and he did say "character." i think it's easy to understand he was talking about the type of things i mentioned: team chemistry, basketball leadership, and morale effects. I'm sure he wasn't talking about dwight's babies mamas or weed/gun charges or whatever.

my short answer: i don't think Dwight has done anything to make anyone question his character outright. they may agree with everything you said about him on this team, but i'd say every other GM would be pretty sure they could put the right talent around him to keep him happy and get the best out of him.

my guess: when this is all said and done, and Dwight has moved on to another team, i think it will become clear that there has been a gap between him and Stan for a while, and between him and the front office. a large part of working with stars of that magnitude is all about ego-management, and whilst it doesn't excuse Dwight from his behaviour, the end result doesn't excuse the team for not doing their job in that regards.

[bonanz]

i started my initial post comparing how other GM's view rondo after reports of his attitude to how i can imagine some of that feeling other gm's would feel about dwight's attitude when considering the comment about presti possibly feeling iffy about it.

other teams reported to feel about rondo: jeesh you're on the historic celtics, surrounded by hall of famers (albeit declining), you've been given the keys, and you still have an attitude problem, what is another team gonna do with that

i can see other GM's saying the same thing about dwight: jeesh you're on the a good team, the drafted you and built a contender around you, they spend money like crazy, built you an arena, you are "the guy" like you want, etc.

the point keeps getting twisted around do different arguments. the point was that other GM's may be concerned about dwights 'tude, after all the magic have done. this is totally reasonable to me, and i think there's plenty of evidence to support it being a reasonable concern.

we've all read the reports of kobe telling dwight how he'd fit on the team, and now they're off they list. draaamaaa

they've made mistakes and it hasn't worked out perfect but it seems people are so quick to say its the teams fault.

for comparison, look at peyton manning. he's essentially getting screwed. and he handled it like a classy professional that no multimillion dollar sports organization would second guess anything about his attitude, taking him on, and making him the face of their franchise. dwight, i can see why other gm's might pause and consider chemistry ramifications. except the nets, they're so desparate not saying it would prevent them from making some deal necessarily, but it's bulletpoint of concern.

[ADRajX]

look man, you're trying to talk to me as if i'm some kinda kid knee jerk reacting. i'm about as level headed as it gets.

Fair enough. I never said you weren't level headed (overreaction doesn't mean you aren't level-headed, we all overreact as fans), it was probably how your post sounded to me. And I'm talking to you because you replied to me; simple as that. We obviously have differing philosophical opinions on "character".

no dwight wasnt a good teammate for 7 years. it started to deteriorate around the year we went to the finals. his ego grew. he was bigger than the team. he was a rookie on the come up for a few years putting in work respecting coaches and teammates and listening. it's been plain as day its been getting worse, but it's not like he's sjax on the bux bad, but you can see it.

So he is bigger than the team.. that's the big selling point that he has a huge ego and his character is bad? He's the star of the team, of course he's going to seem bigger than the team and demand things, and use his stroke to get what he wants. Name me one star that doesn't do that (and yes, Steve Nash does it too believe it or not; all players do it either through their agents, PR, or by themselves. This is why some star players are more "quiet" than others because they use their Agents and PR, but they all do it in some fashion.). Almost everybody does that. He isn't abusing his status by any means; it's quite the norm for a star in the NBA actually. So how does this make him a bad character as a basketball player? And again, I don't see how this defines a man's true character either. That's basketball in the NBA; it's business. Also to say he hasn't been a good teammate for 7 years is kind of a false exaggeration. Many players have came out and said Dwight has been an exemplary teammate. Leadership on the other hand is an entirely different story. I don't think Dwight's a leader, but that's purely based on his basketball abilities and his communication/body language on the court. Not everyone is a leader vocally or through actions. Dwight does his through his body of work (pts, rbs, blks, etc.), not through any words or uplifting emotions. He's not that kind of leader. And his game (body of work) has fatal flaws in it (FT shooting, and faltering late in games in the low-block when played hard defensively). So again, I don't think Dwight is a leader, but that doesn't make him a poor teammate. In fact, I think Dwight has always been a great teammate; he does his job well at both ends of the court and masks a lot of his perimeter teammates' defensive deficiencies/inefficiencies.

then it became i need more touches and call my plays in crunch time and rolling his eyes at vangundy. the negative body language, brow beating his teammates on the floor (screaming "C'MON RYAN!" if he misses some rotation or something) the not being able to control himself from getting technicals. all of that, it didn't happen in the last 3 months its been getting worse for years. you throw in a stupid otis trade or two and we get shallower in the playoffs each year, and here we are full blown primadonna status.

Well he is the star of the team and he wants to have the ball in crunch time. It's a fair assessment on his part to make that statement (whether we agree or disagree with it). Personally, I don't think he's that kind of player. He can't have the ball late in games because he's just not a closer like he says he is. Also the yelling at teammates argument is a moot point. It's a basketball game, everyone yells at each other. There are strong emotions and things get heated. Durant and Westbrook have yelled at each other. Rondo and KG have yelled at each too. Jordan and Pippen also yelled at each other. What's the point? What does that have to do with anything when judging a man's character or leadership qualities? I think you're just grasping at things and trying to connect the dots, when they really aren't there. It's been getting progressively worse every year? I mean, I see certain changes in Dwight's behavior on the floor during the game (maybe it's Dwight getting older), but nothing I see that is detrimental to the team, which is Presti's main concern right? Dwight seems pretty normal out there for the most part when he's playing. He doesn't do any antics or distracting things during the game or in the locker-room. We never hear about that. So I don't know where you're getting these facts from.

Also I agree with the Otis thing. He has ruined the team imo. But if you think about it, what Otis has done would make any star player go crazy and seem "primadonna-like". I would too if I was on that team. God forbid Dwight speaks out and demands a change for the team in order to get some real help (a second star/play-maker) out there for him. That's not Dwight's fault, that's Otis' fault for driving him to that last resort.

i didn't attack him personally, his character as a teammate and basketball leadership is 100% up for question. an okc fan said presti would be concerned about it, and you said you don't see it, and i think it's pretty easy to see why he could think that unless you're looking through rose colored glasses and get fooled by his cheesin and antics and made the case for how it could easily appear to be a character question.

That's where I maybe got confused during your rant. You see, the post I originally replied to was to an OKC fan named "CKRT" where he or she said, "OKC fan here. I don't think Presti is a big fan of Dwight's character. That may be a big part of any non-interest."

I said "I can't see why Presti would have a problem with Dwight's character. He's a good guy who's sincere and cares a lot about his community. He has never been in trouble. So I don't get where he would come to that conclusion of Dwight's character."

I said that because I was talking about Dwight's overall character as a person (this is before you replied, so obviously you read my post and attributed what I said about Dwight to "Dwight as a teammate and leader", and not as "a person", which is what I meant; that's where we disagree or misunderstood each other), which is more important imo than his character in a basketball game or in the locker room as a teammate or a leader. See a person's true character will show in any form in life, including sports. So I simply said Dwight is a good guy imo, thus Dwight isn't a cancer in basketball as a teammate, so I don't get why Presti would be afraid or worried. And honestly, I don't even think his character in terms of just basketball is that out-of-line or egotistical as you made it out to be. Lebron's is worse. You do realize you can't believe everything you hear or read from the media and newspapers right (Such as Dwight's comments to Chicago and Boston reporters)? I think Dwight said on his twitter (after the newspapers were published) that his words got misconstrued and twisted from the interview. Hmm, I'm just saying not everything is what it seems. There are far worse players out there than Dwight, who actually have really big egos and issues that hinders the team and locker-room. I just don't see Dwight as one of those players. Dwight isn't even a blip on the NBA radar as a "cancer" or a trouble maker (if we're just talking about basketball character). Sure this season has been a "distraction" with his trade request, but that doesn't make him a bad character in basketball as a teammate. That again is just business. It's nothing new.

I'm not mad at him for wanting to leave, you just can't make some people happy. i never said anything was wrong with him wanting to leave. i never attacked him as a person off the basketball court. i don't know what you're getting bent out of shape for defending him like he's your buddy or something. i didn't say he was an awful person or a jerk like you claim. I said his action don't align with beign a competitor like he claims to be, his claims of just wanting to win are disingenuous and insincere, he has a tremendous ego as evidenced by reports of wanting more advertising and raised status a la lebron in cleveland and complaining about not getting a private jet to the allstar games etc and flip flopping so nobody thinks he's a bad guy, now throwing teammates under the bus to the media. i mean all of that is not a leader on a basketball team. all of that i can easily see why you can see presti look at his lockerroom and harden and ibaka and look at bringing a high maintenance class clown rental. very easy to understand.

Obviously you ranted, so you seemed upset to me. If you're not upset, I apologize. But it's a fair general rule of thumb to agree that as fans we use our emotions too heavily to make judgements and opinions on players and their "actions/words". We hang our hats on everything players do or say without having the foresight to look into it deeper; and we judge players at a microscopic level, where it just becomes unfair imo. I feel like Dwight is being unfairly judged here, and (generally disregarded or unnoticeable) aspects of his career on the court is starting to become magnified at "hindsight 20/20", where we're now picking apart every miniscule negative details of his "game and behavior", dating all the way back to his rookie season, just because (imo) he made a trade request and I believe as fans we're hurt (again, imo). That's just too much if you ask me. That's connecting the dots to conjure up something that's not really there. It doesn't add up, and it doesn't seem right/fair.

I'm not bent out of shape. I was just defending my original comment, which was simply stating that Dwight is a good guy, and I don't know where Presti's "questioning of Dwight's character" came from. As I tend to think Dwight is a good guy. And no he's not my friend or buddy; you don't need to be condescending and rude when you say that, which I took it as that, but whatever.

Also the insincere thing is a bit blown out of proportion. I do believe Dwight wants to win, but obviously he has other motives that are for him and him only. It's his life and happiness. He doesn't owe us anything; he doesn't need to be truthful at all times and blab out his entire life and career plans to us in the newspapers and through the media. We all hold things in, we all lie. Does that make any of us less sincere as human beings in real life? I don't think so. And how does that all translate to Dwght's basketball character as a teammate (since you've stated that is what you're mainly arguing about; it's not about his personal character, which is what I was arguing about)? To me sincerity and disingenuous are traits that are a part of your overall personal character as a person, and it's not just exclusive to basketball. I think it's a bit reckless to throw those words (like cancer, disingenuous, egotistical, etc) at Dwight and make him out to be this big cancer in basketball. I really don't think he is. I think he's a good teammate as a basketball player, and he's a good person in real life. Hence why I think you might be connecting the dots of his past too prematurely, hastily and harshly in defining Dwight's sincerity as being insincere, and his basketball character as a player as being a cancer.

i don't understand why you think i'm angry or am implying that i'm emotional about dwights behavior. i've met dwight plenty of times also and he was always friendly, but that doesn't mean anything, just like you can't determine a waiters character when you dine at a restaurant.

So being nice in real life doesn't mean anything to you, but assuming stuff that is written by reporters from newspapers that take Dwight's words and (mis)interprets them for their own agenda is the basis of judging a man's character instead? (again, in terms of basketball, right? Not his personal life); or how about assuming stuff by picking out miniscule negative cues from Dwight's behavior/body language during games dating all the way back to his rookie season, all of which could be reasonably explained as being in the "heat of the moment" as another means of judging a man's character? None of that makes any sense in judging his qualities/character as a teammate and basketball player.

At the end of the day, people (fans) are going to believe what they want to believe. I'm not here to change your mind or anything. I'm just defending my thoughts. Agree to disagree if you want. I understand where you're coming from though. Most of the things you said in your last two posts, I have admittedly said the same things about Dwight in other threads (but again, I was usually angry or frustrated, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are angry or frustrated). You seem pretty set in your opinion of Dwight. So it might be best to just live and let live, and agree to disagree.

EDIT* I want to make this abundantly clear. I'm not saying Dwight is perfect. He obviously made mistakes (we all have) and said some things that angered us (and possibly his teammates), but none of those things washes away 8 years of being a generally good teammate and basketball player; or 26 years as a man (he's not a bad person; he's made mistakes in his life personally, but that doesn't define a man imo). That's all I'm saying.

I don't think GMs will be too concerned about Dwight. He's not even a trouble-maker for a franchise like other player imo. There are far worse players out there that have real egos and cancer-like traits and personalities that destroy teams internally.

I don't think Presti would have to worry too much about Dwight imo. And all of this is honestly and probably a moot point, considering the fact that we're even not dealing Dwight to OKC.

And also, I'm not attacking you or anything; so don't take anything personal (and not saying I assume you would or did). I like having good discussions, and this was a good one.

You better give me passing grade for this thesis I just typed out for you.