Woelfel - 70% bogut's gone and maybe Jennings (update pg131)

xTitan · Post #1681 » by **xTitan** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:44 pm

my biggest issue isn't trading anyone, my issue is the person doing the trading. I believe Hammond to be purely incompetent and believe he will literally throw away the Bucks lone real asset.

Licensed to Il · Post #1682 » by **Licensed to Il** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:47 pm

Bogut is a top 5 guy at the hardest position to fill. He was great with the fans, and never badmouthed the organization. He seemed like a good teammate. He showed improvement year to year. He is not overpaid. He weathered some toxic situations thr the years. The elbow injury and the broken ankle are just freak basketball things. Its not like plantar fascitus or an arthritic ankle. The term "pube game" has annoyed me from day one, it is not creative or funny, and every basketball player has off nights. Holding Andrew responsible for the Bucks lack of success puzzles me.

I think fair criticisms for Bogut are: he could have been 2nd team all nba with a better jumper and faceup game... which he never aquired. He did not publically pressure the organization more for their missteps and lack of plan. He could have handled his National Team responsibilities in a manner more symbiotic for the Bucks and Australia.

Bottom line, rebuilding this cluster---- is easier with Andrew around. Names like Tyreke Evans, Steph Curry, etc would be fun to watch for the next month, but they bring way more concerns than Andrew represents (IMO) and are not the same level of building block. The outlier here is additional picks in a stacked lottery. But so much is still unknown at this point (for example Kidd Gilchrist claims he is staying in college) that its a dangerous path to walk too far down at this point.

icat2000 · Post #1683 » by **icat2000** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:47 pm

I don't mind us trading anyone if it will make the team better. I don't want to trade for the sake of trading.

coolhandluke121 · Post #1684 » by **coolhandluke121** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:48 pm

stellation wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I do not think it looks like 2010 FTD or even last year as the one-armed defensive stopper.

I'm curious about why you say he won't be even the Bogut of last year, are you basing that on the impact of the ankle injury?

Visible poor conditioning and a subtle but still noticable weight gain would be other reasons.

SupremeHustle · Post #1685 » by **SupremeHustle** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:48 pm

Mags FTW wrote:
icat2000 wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:I can't believe people are being suckered into wanting to make the playoffs again.

Can't believe how many people were suckered into thinking that Bucks were tanking this season. The organisation was never tanking. A blind freddy could see that.

*grabs Aussie jargon dictionary*

Licensed to Il · Post #1686 » by **Licensed to Il** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:48 pm

xTitan wrote:my biggest issue isn't trading anyone, my issue is the person doing the trading. I believe Hammond to be purely incompetent and believe he will literally throw away the Bucks lone real asset.

Strongly agree. His "vision" is a multi year run as an 8th seed with a team full of Delemberts and Goodens and Delfinos.

europa · Post #1687 » by **europa** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:48 pm

The only reason I can agree with in terms of trading Bogut is because you can no longer depend on him to stay healthy. That's a problem when he's the best player on the team. Now if the Bucks could add at least one player better than Bogut I'd be more inclined to say he's worth keeping despite the durability issues because when he is healthy he impacts the team in such a significant way. That's the one area where I agree with how management and the coaching staff appears to view Bogut at the present time.

trwi7 · Post #1688 » by **trwi7** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:51 pm

Villanoeyebrows wrote:Bogut is a top 5 guy at the hardest position to fill.

Top 5 guy at the weakest position. Just because he's top 5 at his position doesn't mean he's a top 25 player in the league.

stellation · Post #1689 » by **stellation** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:51 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
stellation wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I do not think it looks like 2010 FTD or even last year as the one-armed defensive stopper.

I'm curious about why you say he won't be even the Bogut of last year, are you basing that on the impact of the ankle injury?

Visible poor conditioning and a subtle but still noticable weight gain would be other reasons.

If that's based on the start of this season I'm not sure it's the best indicator, a lot of guys came into this season pretty underdone.

JHSFIVE · Post #1690 » by **JHSFIVE** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:51 pm

My issue is with the organization more than anything..... but I get it. The urge to make the playoffs is obvious.

Lots of bitter sweet sentiment this season.

"once more into the fray"

El Duderino · Post #1691 » by **El Duderino** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:52 pm

europa wrote:The only reason I can agree with in terms of trading Bogut is because you can no longer depend on him to stay healthy. That's a problem when he's the best player on the team. Now if the Bucks could add at least one player better than Bogut I'd be more inclined to say he's worth keeping despite the durability issues because when he is healthy he impacts the team in such a significant way. That's the one area where I agree with how management and the coaching staff appears to view Bogut at the present time.

I understand given all the games he's missed since becoming a Buck, but IMO, his last two injuries have been pure fluke and had nothing to do with Bogut being injury prone.

europa · Post #1692 » by **europa** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:55 pm

El Duderino wrote:
europa wrote:The only reason I can agree with in terms of trading Bogut is because you can no longer depend on him to stay healthy. That's a problem when he's the best player on the team. Now if the Bucks could add at least one player better than Bogut I'd be more inclined to say he's worth keeping despite the durability issues because when he is healthy he impacts the team in such a significant way. That's the one area where I agree with how management and the coaching staff appears to view Bogut at the present time.

I understand given all the games he's missed since becoming a Buck, but IMO, his last two injuries have been pure fluke and had nothing to do with Bogut being injury prone.

I agree they've both been fluky but they've still happened and we go through some form of injury with him a lot lately. I think Hammond and Skiles are tired of him getting hurt all the time - whether the injuries have been fluky or not. I also think one of the things Bogut may be frustrated with is how frustrated they seem to be with him getting hurt. I'm in no rush to trade Bogut but I can agree with the belief now's the time to deal him because he's not trending in a positive direction in terms of staying healthy.

europa · Post #1693 » by **europa** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:59 pm

Of all the teams that are/may be expressing interest in Bogut, the Jazz remain the team I'd most like to deal with and Burks is the player I'd most like to receive in return.

Mags FTW · Post #1694 » by **Mags FTW** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:01 pm

Villanoeyebrows wrote:

The term "pube game" has annoyed me from day one, it is not creative or funny

Villanoeyebrows wrote:

The term "pube game" has annoyed me from day one, it is not creative or funny

Villanoeyebrows wrote:

The term "pube game" has annoyed me from day one, it is not creative or funny

MikeIsGood · Post #1695 » by **MikeIsGood** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:02 pm

Ugh. Post explosion. Someone want to provide a quick cliff notes version for those that couldn't follow today at work?

Outside of some dude coming onto BP. Caught that.

milweskee · Post #1696 » by **milweskee** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:02 pm

europa wrote:Of all the teams that are/may be expressing interest in Bogut, the Jazz remain the team I'd most like to deal with and Burks is the player I'd most like to receive in return.

Sign me up.

xTitan · Post #1697 » by **xTitan** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:02 pm

europa wrote:Of all the teams that are/may be expressing interest in Bogut, the Jazz remain the team I'd most like to deal with and Burks is the player I'd most like to receive in return.

really? An athletic 2 who can't shoot? I actually like Burks, but Bogut is way to big a chip to give up for a 2 guard who does not already posses big time scoring skills.....I have less than zero interest in Jefferson and Milsap....if they have a lottery pick I would need that as well.

trwi7 · Post #1698 » by **trwi7** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:04 pm

MikeIsGood wrote:Ugh. Post explosion. Someone want to provide a quick cliff notes version for those that couldn't follow today at work?

Outside of some dude coming onto BP. Caught that.

Bogut went to Panera and they didn't have the soup he wanted but then they did. :reporter:

WRau1 · Post #1699 » by **WRau1** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:05 pm

trwi7 wrote:
MikeIsGood wrote:Ugh. Post explosion. Someone want to provide a quick cliff notes version for those that couldn't follow today at work?

Outside of some dude coming onto BP. Caught that.

Bogut went to Panera and they didn't have the soup he wanted but then they did.

And Not A Felon wants to hop on BuckPack's junk.

stellation · Post #1700 » by **stellation** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:06 pm

El Duderino wrote:
europa wrote:The only reason I can agree with in terms of trading Bogut is because you can no longer depend on him to stay healthy. That's a problem when he's the best player on the team. Now if the Bucks could add at least one player better than Bogut I'd be more inclined to say he's worth keeping despite the durability issues because when he is healthy he impacts the team in such a significant way. That's the one area where I agree with how management and the coaching staff appears to view Bogut at the present time.

I understand given all the games he's missed since becoming a Buck, but IMO, his last two injuries have been pure fluke and had nothing to do with Bogut being injury prone.

You could almost say the last 3 major ones were?

In his first 3 seasons he played in 231 out of a possible 246 games, perfectly fine. Since then he has played in 177 out of 300, not fine.

Oh his last 3 major injuries, that equate to the vast majority of those missed games, they were all impact things- the back was from taking a charge off Dwight (he was playing really well in that game up until then, too) and resulted in the biggest chunk of missed games, the arm injury was from a fall after dunking and then the ankle was from falling on a guy's foot after trying to block a shot- 3 freak things. They aren't really soft tissue injuries from coming in underdone.