Woelfel - 70% bogut's gone and maybe Jennings (update pg131)

[europa]

Troy Murphy and his six-year/$58 million dollar deal say hello.

Murphy was a double-double guy for several seasons. He didn't just have a couple of months of standout ball in a contract year. I could see Ilyasova getting a Villanueva-type deal (5/$35M) but I just can't see anyone giving him $10M per year. That's nuts. Even in the NBA.

[paul]

No way Ilyasova gets $10M per year. No way.

I'm talking aggregate money. 5-years/$35 or $40 million.

But you never know in these instances. Bad teams outbid themselves to make sure they don't lose a guy.

Troy Murphy and his six-year/$58 million dollar deal say hello.

It's just that kind of idiocy that means he won't get it. Certainly not from the Bucks anyway.

It's one thing to give Gooden an MLE, entirely another to give a guy $10m per plus.

[JustinCredible]

All I know is that if Jennings puts up 34-7-7 when he is on the trading block then we should keep him on the trading block for a few years.

[paulpressey25]

I'm not saying that happens with Ersan. A lot depends on what he does these last 24 games. But you can see a scenario where New Jersey loses out on Dwight and Deron and suddenly has a minimum payroll to make. Other than the 2009(?) offseason when 8 or more teams were building cap space for the summer of 2010, there are always a bunch of stupid contracts given out each July.

Watch Hollinger do some write up in mid-June about how Ersan's PER numbers mimic Dirk's. Some dumb GM with mega cap space is going to read that. And that team either offers 4-$32 or Ersan's agent fakes the Bucks out that they need to top an offer like that.

[ajb905]

Sign me up for curry and gasol if non tank is the direction

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

MartyConlonOnTheRun, I know you are no insider but I was in Squad 6 the first season and you seemed to know your stuff. Who is it that you think the Bucks are targeting in these trades?

"My" guess is Bargnani for Jennings and Curry (+Biedrins) for Bogut. Been busy with work so I haven't been on top of it as I like, though. Know idea how Bargnani would fit into the equation. Do you trade Bogut and go with AB/Ersan/Gooden taking the rotation, or do you keep Bogut and let Ersan walk?

As for Bogut, I think their is a lot of emotion going on when considering these trades. The hate between Skiles and Bogut is almost at a physical level and it is clear that will never be able to coexist. In the heat of the moment, everyone on the inside probably thinks he's gone but in reality you still need to find the right trade. So the "70%" may be what everyone thinks, but I wouldn't be shocked if we couldn't get anything done..... Plus, you still need the senile old man to sign off on trading your 2-cornerstone pieces, including the guy you drafted. People need to remember that just because a trade didn't go down, doesn't mean there wasn't substantial talk where both sides agreed to the premise of a trade.

On a side note, I really miss being in the Squad and will always have a soft-spot for Bogut. It was great being up front with you, Justin.

[worthlessBucks]

Sign me up for curry and gasol if non tank is the direction

Gasol is turning 32 this July. I'm all for Curry if we could get him, but what on Earth is the point of just switching Bogut/Jennings to Gasol/Curry? I'd rather take the former given what we know about age/injuries, which is bizarre to type that because Bogut and Jennings alone will get us nowhere.

[blkout]

I have an awful **** feeling about this week.

Me too. I've yet to hear a single deal that I think is worth doing. The Curry ones are as close as it gets but that guy is gonna struggle to play 40+ games per season with the rate he gets injured, and it's one thing to get that from a C, another thing to get it from a guard.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Woelful is a reporter, not a Bucks employee. I understand why BuckPack can't divulge specifics because it will get back that his source has leaked and could cost them their livelihood, but when people talk to Gery they know they are talking to a reporter

Why is it any different for BuckPack than it is for Woelfel? Both are definitely very credible sources. BuckPack is far more selective with what he passes on, that is the biggest difference.

You answered your own question. Gery can't divulge specifics for the same reason BuckPack can't. For the same reason I, or anyone else that becomes privy to any inside info can't. If you get into too many specifics, it is too easy for that leak to get traced back to its source. Not only might that be problematic for the source, but it also tends to burn the source that could be useful for the future. They either won't be trusted enough to have info in the future and/or they won't give you that info anymore because they gave it to you with the caveat that you not divulge the specifics and you did not heed their wishes.

Word gets around that you don't keep your word and are willing to burn your sources, people stop talking to you and giving you useful info that isn't public knowledge. Then you end up having no information to pass on that is of any interest. Then what?

Even though the info that was provided by Woelfel & BuckPack wasn't completely specific, was it not useful info that we've been discussing? Most certainly it was

[blkout]

Also why are people so sure that Ersan will get 10 mil per year? Kris Humphries is on 8 and the season he got paid for was better than the season Ersan is having. David Lee was putting up Ersan numbers for like 3 seasons before he got his awful contract.

[paul]

Also why are people so sure that Ersan will get 10 mil per year? Kris Humphries is on 8 and the season he got paid for was better than the season Ersan is having. David Lee was putting up Ersan numbers for like 3 seasons before he got his awful contract.

He won't.

[pe_it72]

I really want no part of switching jennings/bogut for the same pieces from other teams.

I would rather package ersan with jackson for expirings. Let our guys expire, Sign Eric Gordon for a large deal in the offseason. And move our pick this year with next years to move up and get thomas robinson

Need an expiring that matches these two. Jax (9.3), Sova (2.5), Our expireing Delfino (3.5)= 15.3 mil, should give us plenty of room to sign gordon. If udrih declines his option add 6.9, doubtful but maybe we can move him for an expiring.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6r7pc23
doubt this trade goes through but it'd be a dream

Lineup:
Jennings/Livingston
Gordon/Dunleavy
Harris/Dunleavy
Robinson/LRMAM
Bogut/Gooden

No rebuild, and i'm good with this team. we arn't spinning in circles and we stay young.
Thoughts?

[raysbookclub]

I have an awful **** feeling about this week.

Me too. I've yet to hear a single deal that I think is worth doing. The Curry ones are as close as it gets but that guy is gonna struggle to play 40+ games per season with the rate he gets injured, and it's one thing to get that from a C, another thing to get it from a guard.

yes

[JustinCredible]

MartyConlonOnTheRun, I know you are no insider but I was in Squad 6 the first season and you seemed to know your stuff. Who is it that you think the Bucks are targeting in these trades?

"My" guess is Bargnani for Jennings and Curry (+Biedrins) for Bogut. Been busy with work so I haven't been on top of it as I like, though. Know idea how Bargnani would fit into the equation. Do you trade Bogut and go with AB/Ersan/Gooden taking the rotation, or do you keep Bogut and let Ersan walk?

As for Bogut, I think their is a lot of emotion going on when considering these trades. The hate between Skiles and Bogut is almost at a physical level and it is clear that will never be able to coexist. In the heat of the moment, everyone on the inside probably thinks he's gone but in reality you still need to find the right trade. So the "70%" may be what everyone thinks, but I wouldn't be shocked if we couldn't get anything done..... Plus, you still need the senile old man to sign off on trading your 2-cornerstone pieces, including the guy you drafted. People need to remember that just because a trade didn't go down, doesn't mean there wasn't substantial talk where both sides agreed to the premise of a trade.

On a side note, I really miss being in the Squad and will always have a soft-spot for Bogut. It was great being up front with you, Justin.

Thanks for your insight. I miss being in the Squad as well and will definitely miss having Bogut if he goes. However, I am also a Bucks fan first and want to do whatever we need to do to put together the best team possible. I'm not sure how I feel about the trades you mention but if they throw in Klay Thompson it might not be too bad. The biggest concern would be Curry's ankle.

[Baddy Chuck]

I wouldn't want Ersan on anything over 6 a year.

[paul]

Woelful is a reporter, not a Bucks employee. I understand why BuckPack can't divulge specifics because it will get back that his source has leaked and could cost them their livelihood, but when people talk to Gery they know they are talking to a reporter

Why is it any different for BuckPack than it is for Woelfel? Both are definitely very credible sources. BuckPack is far more selective with what he passes on, that is the biggest difference.

You answered your own question. Gery can't divulge specifics for the same reason BuckPack can't. For the same reason I, or anyone else that becomes privy to any inside info can't. If you get into too many specifics, it is too easy for that leak to get traced back to its source. Not only might that be problematic for the source, but it also tends to burn the source that could be useful for the future. They either won't be trusted enough to have info in the future and/or they won't give you that info anymore because they gave it to you with the caveat that you not divulge the specifics and you did not heed their wishes.

Word gets around that you don't keep your word and are willing to burn your sources, people stop talking to you and giving you useful info that isn't public knowledge. Then you end up having no information to pass on that is of any interest. Then what?

Even though the info that was provided by Woelfel & BuckPack wasn't completely specific, was it not useful info that we've been discussing? Most certainly it was

He's dumped out a mountain of information the past few weeks and hasn't been specific on literally one thing that he's given out. Every day he's divulging multiple pieces of information, yet not a single specific, ever.

Again, when people talk to Gery they KNOW they are talking to a reporter. When BuckPack's source talks to him presumably they are talking to some kind of friend or close associate, not a paid reporter whose job it is to broadcast the information they are being passed. That is a very major difference.

[blkout]

Would drink myself unconscious if the Hammond master plan is to keep Gooden, Jackson and Udrih and bring in win-now (relatively) players from the Raptors and Warriors.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I'm trying to figure out a way I can get excited after this week that is realistic with this Bucks roster and rumors. I'm at a lost. The one major light spot at the end of the tunnel was falling low enough to get a Thomas Robinson type player to get excited about.

At this point, I have given up any hope of tanking and almost wish we keep our guys for the small chance at FTD2. I think Bogut and Jennings are big enough competitors that they won't go Cleveland Lebron on us in the playoffs. Their value will go up and then we can make major moves in the offseason.

[paul]

I wouldn't want Ersan on anything over 6 a year.

If I had to guess I'm saying 4 years $5m up to $8m per. 5 years if it's the low side, 4 years if it's the high.

[blkout]

I wouldn't want Ersan on anything over 6 a year.

I'd give him 7 max, only because what he's doing is no different to what he's done per-minute for the rest of his career which makes me think if Skiles wasn't messing him around so much he could've done this a lot earlier (and likely will continue doing it after he gets paid). It really depends on how these trades go down though, if the Jennings/Bargnani thing happens then it's pointless keeping Ersan.