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Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1401 » by sunny » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:46 pm

Undefeated wrote:
ballislife wrote:I like Beal, but Im concerned about his size.. he's not even 6'4" in shoes... is he a true SG?


Size is not an issue for Beal since he plays much bigger than his suggested 6'4" frame. And he routinely plays out of position at SF that he's had some success rebounding over bigger and stronger players. Nothing tells me that his height is a concern. It's not like Beal is severely giving up inches at the 2-spot either because he combats size with his quickness, explosiveness, athleticism and pure strength.

Dywane Wade has no issue with his size despite being a little bit undersized as some would argue. While Beal doesn't have that elite first step or explosiveness in comparison to Wade, he isn't too far behind. There isn't a single wing defender that's better than MKG right now in the NCAA, and Beal showed he had no problem scoring against a world-class defender giving up 3-4" in height while managing to produce 20 points on 53.3% shooting from the field and 8 rebounds in the SEC tournament semi-finals.

Beal has that instant elevation off the floor and lightning quick release off the dribble or running of screens via pin-downs that should/will allow him to get his shot off against any NBA defender. He also has a good mix of change of speeds and explosiveness that will force to put his defender on their heels. That burst of explosiveness is scary. He's got broad shoulders that when he drives, he won't be easily bothered by the contact nor will he have a problem finishing over bigger defenders since his strength won't allow him to bounce easily in mid-air. He's got some physical traits that more than makes up for his height.

Wade has massive arms that Beal does not have (similar to Lamb's). He does ok in college because he can out muscle players but I don't think he would have the same success in the nba in that regard. I view his size as a huge problem right now.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1402 » by Salted Meat » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Lamb is in huge trouble because it looks like MKG, Barnes, Beal are ahead of him. If you're the 4th wing in the most loaded PF/C drafts of the last decade, it's not a good sign. I'd be surprised if there were even 3 wings in the top 7



Why is Lamb in trouble?

A lot can change between now and draft day, especially after the lottery results are in and teams conduct interviews/workouts. Nobody thought Tristan Thompson was going #4 at this point last year. If Lamb is worth drafting, and the talent level is considered relatively even within, say, the 6-10 range, then he'll be drafted higher.

I'm sure Lamb isn't worried about whether he'll go 5th or 10th, I'm sure he just wants to end up in a situation that makes the best use of his talents.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1403 » by Saciid11 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:53 pm

sunny wrote:NBAdraft.net
1) Anthony Davis
2) Andre Drummond
3) Jeremy Lamb
4) Harrison Barnes
5) Jared Sullinger
6) Arnett Moultrie
7) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
8) Bradley Beal
9) Austin Rivers
10) Thomas Robinson

Draftexpress.com

1) Anthony Davis
2) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3) Thomas Robinson
4) Andre Drummond
5) Jared Sullinger
6) Harrison Barnes
7) Bradley Beal
8) Perry Jones
9) John Henson
10) Tyler Zeller

Chad Ford
1) Anthony Davis
2) Michael Kid-Gilchrist
3) Andre Drummond
4) Thomas Robinson
5) Harrison Barnes
6) Bradley Beal
7) Perry Jones
8) Jared Sullinger
9) Cody Zeller
10) Jeremy Lamb



Every year NBADRAFT.net seems to be more accurrate then other drafts and the so called Analyst especiall Chad Ford .... remember this is the same guy who called Darko future hall famer and #1 pick ahead of Lebron James...

Cody Zeller, Brad Beal, MKG ahead of Jeremy Lamb ... crazy
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1404 » by Rapture » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:59 pm

Again Beal was already measured last Nike Hoop Summit:

Bradley Beal (#8 Scout, #7 Rivals, #4 ESPN)now stands 6-4 ½ in shoes, having grown an inch since the last time we saw him.

Height (with shoes): 6-4 ½
Weight: 195
Wingspan: 6-7.5

April 22, 2011
Jonathan Givony


So I don't think that size will be much of a problem with his strenght and athleticism.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1405 » by Saciid11 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:59 pm

sunny wrote:
wanker wrote:
sunny wrote:- Jeremy Lamb will either go higher than predicted or be a huge steal as Givony and Ford's ranking is based off evaluating his play sans Calhoun which is a huge mistake.


No, Ford and Givony are basing their rankings on Lamb's entire high school and college career. Lamb is incredibly overrated by you and the majority of this board.


lol.

neither Ford or Givony knew who Lamb was in highschool and he was a completely different player then. You are also forgetting the large disparity between Ford (and pretty much everyone else) and Givony's views from earlier this year. Lamb is a player with huge confidence issues, sort of similar to Jerryd Bayless. After Calhoun left, he lost his confidence, didn't have plays called for him and became a much softer prospect. However, these things won't be problems in the nba.



Nobody knew who Wade was until his junior year in College, atleast Lamb was producing his freshman year and second option on team that won the NCAA championship. Lamb is probably one of the safest pick in this draft, at worst the guy is Jamal Crawford and at best he is smaller version of Kevin Durant... pure scorer...
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1406 » by sunny » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:02 pm

Saciid11 wrote:
sunny wrote:NBAdraft.net
1) Anthony Davis
2) Andre Drummond
3) Jeremy Lamb
4) Harrison Barnes
5) Jared Sullinger
6) Arnett Moultrie
7) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
8) Bradley Beal
9) Austin Rivers
10) Thomas Robinson

Draftexpress.com

1) Anthony Davis
2) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3) Thomas Robinson
4) Andre Drummond
5) Jared Sullinger
6) Harrison Barnes
7) Bradley Beal
8) Perry Jones
9) John Henson
10) Tyler Zeller

Chad Ford
1) Anthony Davis
2) Michael Kid-Gilchrist
3) Andre Drummond
4) Thomas Robinson
5) Harrison Barnes
6) Bradley Beal
7) Perry Jones
8) Jared Sullinger
9) Cody Zeller
10) Jeremy Lamb



Every year NBADRAFT.net seems to be more accurrate then other drafts and the so called Analyst especiall Chad Ford .... remember this is the same guy who called Darko future hall famer and #1 pick ahead of Lebron James...

Cody Zeller, Brad Beal, MKG ahead of Jeremy Lamb ... crazy


funny story about draft.net

they were scouting a highschool game and see this guy absolutely dominating. they look him up and see he is unrated and under scouted. Get in touch with a top college coach and tell him. He watches the player and realizes how talented he is. This player is now expected to blow up this summer and be one of the top highschool recruits.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1407 » by Rapture » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:10 pm

sunny wrote:some quick notes:

- Thomas Robinson is in high bust territory. Historically, players in his situation have not turned out.


Care to elaborate?

He's 6' 10" with a 7' 1" wingspan and probably around 250 come draft time. (check draftexpress for measurements)

Those are some good measurements i would say. Combine that with his athleticism and strenght/very low fat percentage + super high motor and work ethic and I see absolutely no way how this guy can be bust. His rebounding is elite which should translate and make him at worst a guy like Brian Grant/Horace Grant.

Last year he was stuck behind the Morris' twins so he had no chance to show his skills. He's also improved his FT% almost 30% in two years to respectable 70% now.

Some players just aren't ready in their freshmen or sophmore years. Noah player 9 minutes in his freshman year and Derrick Williams wasn't that impressive either.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1408 » by Kaizen » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:11 pm

Name?
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1409 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:14 pm

Summer camp, w/shoes height measurements mean squat. There is no way he's 6'10 in functional shoes.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1410 » by sunny » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:14 pm

CZAR85 wrote:Name?

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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1411 » by C_Money » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:15 pm

I don't think Harrison Barnes is a top 5 pick. He just looks like Joe Johnson without the handles to me.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1412 » by sunny » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:16 pm

Rapture wrote:
sunny wrote:some quick notes:

- Thomas Robinson is in high bust territory. Historically, players in his situation have not turned out.


Care to elaborate?

He's 6' 10" with a 7' 1" wingspan and probably around 250 come draft time. (check draftexpress for measurements)

Those are some good measurements i would say. Combine that with his athleticism and strenght/very low fat percentage + super high motor and work ethic and I see absolutely no way how this guy can be bust. His rebounding is elite which should translate and make him at worst a guy like Brian Grant/Horace Grant.

Last year he was stuck behind the Morris' twins so he had no chance to show his skills. He's also improved his FT% almost 30% in two years to respectable 70% now.

Some players just aren't ready in their freshmen or sophmore years. Noah player 9 minutes in his freshman year and Derrick Williams wasn't that impressive either.
Derrick Williams was incredible his freshman year! I watched every game of it and was impressed the entire season.

I love watching T-rob now but just looking at similar players like him, there is definitely a trend.

a) players who come out nowhere and start dominating as seniors and juniors
b) players who rely on strength and hustle in college but lack fundamental skills

he pretty much beasts through everyone smaller than him now and just dominates. I don't know how easy he will be able to do that in the nba.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1413 » by Saciid11 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:19 pm

C_Money wrote:I don't think Harrison Barnes is a top 5 pick. He just looks like Joe Johnson without the handles to me.


Barnes will be steal if he falls out of the top 3 ... mark my words.

1. Davis
2. Barnes
3. Lamb
4. Sullinger


rest are just purely potential and hype, especially Drummond and MKG ....
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1414 » by Rapture » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:24 pm

sunny wrote:
Rapture wrote:
sunny wrote:some quick notes:

- Thomas Robinson is in high bust territory. Historically, players in his situation have not turned out.


Care to elaborate?

He's 6' 10" with a 7' 1" wingspan and probably around 250 come draft time. (check draftexpress for measurements)

Those are some good measurements i would say. Combine that with his athleticism and strenght/very low fat percentage + super high motor and work ethic and I see absolutely no way how this guy can be bust. His rebounding is elite which should translate and make him at worst a guy like Brian Grant/Horace Grant.

Last year he was stuck behind the Morris' twins so he had no chance to show his skills. He's also improved his FT% almost 30% in two years to respectable 70% now.

Some players just aren't ready in their freshmen or sophmore years. Noah player 9 minutes in his freshman year and Derrick Williams wasn't that impressive either.
Derrick Williams was incredible his freshman year! I watched every game of it and was impressed the entire season.

I love watching T-rob now but just looking at similar players like him, there is definitely a trend.

a) players who come out nowhere and start dominating as seniors and juniors
b) players who rely on strength and hustle in college but lack fundamental skills

he pretty much beasts through everyone smaller than him now and just dominates. I don't know how easy he will be able to do that in the nba.


Well i guess we just have to agree to disagree here. I wouldn't say he came out of no where. People who followed him last year pretty much expected him to be a sure lottery pick this year. At the same time nobody expected Kansas to go to the NCAA tournament as a no. 2 seed, actually many thought it would be a rebuilding year. I agree that he'll have to improve his skill level a lot in the next level but from what I've seen he already uses some pretty advanced moves some times and his jump shot has bee coming along well also. Time will tell!
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1415 » by sunny » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:31 pm

as a freshman, Kris humphries got 22 and 10.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1416 » by fredericklove » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:31 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
sunny wrote:some quick notes:
- as of now, it appears that Drumond, Davis and Gilchrist make up the top 3.
- Barnes is dropping
- Perry Jones has been increasing his stock
- Thomas Robinson is in high bust territory. Historically, players in his situation have not turned out.
- Jeremy Lamb will either go higher than predicted or be a huge steal as Givony and Ford's ranking is based off evaluating his play sans Calhoun which is a huge mistake.
- Look for the tournament to play a major role for players 4-10.


Lamb is my candidate for a lottery steal if he's taken anywhere between 8-10 which I think is likely where he'll end up.


idk about 8-10, the lowest Lamb can drop is 7th so he should be around 4-7 ranked especially a team like Wizard, Detroit, Cleveland or even Jersey (brooks can be 6th man) would take him if he's still on board. They all need a good 2 guard. Btw, Jersey's pick is owned by Jazz now right?
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1417 » by fredericklove » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:45 pm

sunny wrote:Wade has massive arms that Beal does not have (similar to Lamb's). He does ok in college because he can out muscle players but I don't think he would have the same success in the nba in that regard. I view his size as a huge problem right now.


Beal has a strong build as foundation, the more weight he puts on, the stronger he will get. I wouldnt worry about his size because its obvious he plays much bigger than his size. If theres an undersize guy that I am afraid of, that would be River. Hes 6'4, tho he is blessed by handle and explosive first step however I can't see how he's going to attack the basket in the NBA level that easily. Beal on the other hand, picks his spot, he uses his smarts to score, its not like he relies entirely on his brute strength to score.

If we use Eric Gordon's size as comparison, roughly same size (6'4) and 210+ lb, he doesn't play bigger than his size and not typically strong yet he's able to get his shots off and defend pretty well. Beal's physique, smarts and solid defense are going to do more good than harm, especially for the NBA's level.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1418 » by Undefeated » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:52 pm

sunny wrote:Wade has massive arms that Beal does not have (similar to Lamb's). He does ok in college because he can out muscle players but I don't think he would have the same success in the nba in that regard. I view his size as a huge problem right now.


Maybe Beal won't have the type of success he has on the glass in the NBA, but his athleticism, quickness and motor should help him. His height doesn't bother me as much because he's got that instant "pop" on his lift when he elevates, extremely quick pick up and release, and good elevation on the jumper that he'll be able to get his shot off against any NBA defender when he wants.

And in regards to his strength, I don't see him out muscling other players at this point either, though keep in mind he's got a pretty solid NBA build for an 18 year old already. With more time, he should get even stronger since he seems to be ahead of his development curve in terms of building his physique.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1419 » by cdel00 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:54 pm

You finally have Lillard on your radar :). Good man! I have so much respect for the guy. He is the poster boy for class and work ethic!

Dr Mufasa wrote:I take Cammo in the draft forum's mock over Ford or DX's at this point. Where Ford gets really good and plugged in is after the lottery order is set. Cammo had this by the 12th:

1. Charlotte - Anthony Davis (6'10'', PF, Kentucky, Fresh.)
2. New Orleans - Andre Drummond (6'10'', C, UConn, Fresh.)
3. Washington - Thomas Robinson (6'9'', PF, Kansas, Jr.)
4. Toronto - Harrison Barnes (6'8'', SF, North Carolina, Soph.)
5. New Jersey - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (6'6'', SF, Kentucky, Fresh.)
6. Sacramento - Jared Sullinger (6'9'', PF, Ohio State, Soph.)
7. Detroit - Austin Rivers (6'4'', SG, Duke, Fresh.)
8. Milwaukee - Jeremy Lamb (6'5'', SG, UConn, Soph.)
9. Cleveland - Tyler Zeller (6'11'', C, North Carolina, Sr.)
10. Utah - Bradley Beal (6'3'', SG, Florida, Fresh.)
11. Phoenix - Perry Jones (6'11'', PF, Baylor, Soph.)
12. Utah - Kendall Marshall (6'3'', PG, North Carolina, Soph.)
13. New Orleans - John Henson (6'10'', PF, North Carolina, Jr.)
14. Portland - Meyers Leonard (7'0'', C, Illinois, Soph.)

So similar stuff.

This is mine from the 8th, I'm a little bit off the board with a few players, but I did the same last year with players like Knight, Thompson being much higher than DX/Ford had them at that point and I was right, so I trust my own projections:

1. Charlotte Bobcats - PF Anthony Davis
2. New Orleans Hornets - PF John Henson
3. Washington Wizards - SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. New Jersey Nets - PF/C Andre Drummond
5. Sacramento Kings - PF Thomas Robinson
6. Detroit Pistons - SG Bradley Beal
7. Toronto Raptors - PG Damian Lillard
8. Cleveland Cavaliers - C Meyers Leonard
9. Milwaukee Bucks - PF Perry Jones III
10. Utah Jazz (from Golden State Warriors) - PF Jared Sullinger
11. Phoenix Suns - SF Harrison Barnes
12. Portland Trailblazers - SG Jeremy Lamb
13. Utah Jazz - PG Scott Machado
14. Houston Rockets - PF Arnett Moultrie
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7 

Post#1420 » by DreamTeam09 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:04 pm

Unless we have the #1 pick, we are not passing on barnes if he is on the board. So i'm glad his stock is falling, that just makes it easier for us to get him.
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