Lakers trade Fisher/1st to the Rockets for Hill

[yows]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAL2.HTM

actually supports the notion that Fisher was better than Blake

If true, this only cements further in my mind stats arent to be trusted.

numbers don't lie, they just dont tell the whole story.
stats imo, just supplement what we see

[crazy8ights]

looks like we got vetoed twice this year!

The Lakers were minutes away from acquiring Michael Beasley, but Minnesota owner Glen Taylor blocked an agreed upon three-team trade before the deadline, according to a source.

Portland also would have been involved with Derek Fisher and Jamal Crawford being other trade components.

The Lakers responded by agreeing to trade Fisher to the Rockets.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1pIDO8dVK

[RamonSessions7]

looks like we got vetoed twice this year!

The Lakers were minutes away from acquiring Michael Beasley, but Minnesota owner Glen Taylor blocked an agreed upon three-team trade before the deadline, according to a source.

Portland also would have been involved with Derek Fisher and Jamal Crawford being other trade components.

The Lakers responded by agreeing to trade Fisher to the Rockets.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1pIDO8dVK

Yeah why don't the owners just handle trades since they clearly don't trust their GMs.

[Anklebreaker702]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAL2.HTM

actually supports the notion that Fisher was better than Blake

...how? offensively they are basically having the same impact, but Fisher is clearly a step behind defensively. he cant guard anybody ever. blake can at least be pesky.

blake has the slightly better defensive/offensive on/off numbers. blake has been playing pretty terrible as of late though, early in the season he was clearly the better player.

I can agree with all of this doormat

[Anklebreaker702]

This is like a fight between which tastes better a dog **** sandwich or a horse **** taco.

Guess I'll take the taco since they are vegetarians lol

[Anklebreaker702]

After they got Sessions, one of Blake or Fish had to go (because they can't really play together effectively).

The first choice was to trade Blake ... but could not.

Plan B was trading Fisher it had to be done in the sense that one of Blake or Fish would have been "expensive" for the Lakers third string and out of the rotation.

Kupchak is forever trying to clean up his mistakes (and he does a pretty good job at it).

Blake was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by dumping a 1st rounder and Fish to make room.

Walton was a bad signing, corrected (after five years) by dumping a 1st rounder.

Radmanovic was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by getting cheaper w/Morrison and better w/S.Brown.

Brian Cook was a bad signing, corrected (after a year) by acquiring Ariza.

Vujacic was a bad signing, corrected by getting cheaper.

I guess my only problem is that after making this bad contract decisions it takes soooo damn long to correct them.

He's got to get better at signing guys though. If Blake had never come at his price, we'd either still have Fish as the spiritual leader or a much better player than Blake.

All that being said, Blake will adaquately push Sessions, and be a good backup ... I'm confident in that.

It just must be said that the Lakers went into yesterday's deadline trying to dump Blake, not Fish, it had to be done because of the bad decision to sign Blake to that contract in the first place.

Good stuff All Hail. Obviously the front office saw it the same way because they tried to dump Blake 1st. Once it fell through they had no choice but to dump Fish

[Sofa King]

looks like we got vetoed twice this year!

The Lakers were minutes away from acquiring Michael Beasley, but Minnesota owner Glen Taylor blocked an agreed upon three-team trade before the deadline, according to a source.

Portland also would have been involved with Derek Fisher and Jamal Crawford being other trade components.

The Lakers responded by agreeing to trade Fisher to the Rockets.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1pIDO8dVK

Yeah why don't the owners just handle trades since they clearly don't trust their GMs.

They need the GMs to do the dirty work to present the deals. That's what being a real GM is all about.

[Sofa King]

After they got Sessions, one of Blake or Fish had to go (because they can't really play together effectively).

The first choice was to trade Blake ... but could not.

Plan B was trading Fisher it had to be done in the sense that one of Blake or Fish would have been "expensive" for the Lakers third string and out of the rotation.

Kupchak is forever trying to clean up his mistakes (and he does a pretty good job at it).

Blake was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by dumping a 1st rounder and Fish to make room.

Walton was a bad signing, corrected (after five years) by dumping a 1st rounder.

Radmanovic was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by getting cheaper w/Morrison and better w/S.Brown.

Brian Cook was a bad signing, corrected (after a year) by acquiring Ariza.

Vujacic was a bad signing, corrected by getting cheaper.

I guess my only problem is that after making this bad contract decisions it takes soooo damn long to correct them.

He's got to get better at signing guys though. If Blake had never come at his price, we'd either still have Fish as the spiritual leader or a much better player than Blake.

All that being said, Blake will adaquately push Sessions, and be a good backup ... I'm confident in that.

It just must be said that the Lakers went into yesterday's deadline trying to dump Blake, not Fish, it had to be done because of the bad decision to sign Blake to that contract in the first place.

Everything that you said, it's like you completely understand me.

[semi-sentient]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAL2.HTM

actually supports the notion that Fisher was better than Blake

If true, this only cements further in my mind stats arent to be trusted.

As dcash mentioned, it supports the opposite.

Top Five-Man Floor Units

Code: Select all

   Lineup                                 Min    W-L    Win%
=============================================================
1. Fisher-Bryant-Ebanks-Murphy-Gasol      17.5   3-0    100%
2. Blake-Bryant-Barnes-Murphy-Gasol       57.5   8-3    72.7%
3. Blake-Bryant-Barnes-Gasol-Bynum        37.1   7-3    70.0%
4. Blake-Goudelock-Barnes-Murphy-Bynum    95.0   8-4    66.6%
5. Blake-Kapono-WorldPeace-Murphy-Bynum   23.6   2-1    66.6%
6. Blake-Bryant-Kapono-Murphy-Gasol       19.4   2-1    66.6%
7. Goudelock-Kapono-Barnes-Murphy-Bynum   39.3   3-2    60.0%

Here are the 5 worst rotations, based on winning percentage:

Code: Select all

   Lineup                                 Min    W-L    Win%
=============================================================
1. Morris-Bryant-Peace-McRoberts-Gasol    17.1   0-4    0.0%
2. Fisher-Bryant-Barnes-Murphy-Gasol      32.7   5-11   31.2%
3. Blake-Goudelock-Peace-Murphy-Gasol     33.3   1-2    33.3%
4. Fisher-Bryant-Kapono-Gasol-Bynum       20.2   3-5    37.5%
5. Fisher-Bryant-Barnes-McRoberts-Gasol   17.4   2-3    40.0%

Here is how the team performs when both players are playing the big 3:

Code: Select all

   Lineup                                 Min    W-L    Win%
=============================================================
1. Blake-Bryant-Barnes-Gasol-Bynum        37.1   7-3    70.0%
2. Fisher-Bryant-Barnes-Gasol-Bynum       303.2  14-12  53.8%
3. Fisher-Bryant-WorldPeace-Gasol-Bynum   351.5  12-11  52.1%
4. Blake-Bryant-WorldPeace-Gasol-Bynum    32.7   4-4    50.0%
5. Fisher-Bryant-Kapono-Gasol-Bynum       20.2   3-5    37.5%

Anyway, offensively neither of these guys is anything to write home about, but as mentioned Blake plays with scrubs for the most part whereas Fisher is typically out there with the starters. How much worse would Fisher be if he had to play with the reserves? Can you imagine? For all the silly lob passes that Blake attempts, how many times does Fisher take an ill-advised shot or try to drive against 2 or 3 defenders? Fisher is a horrible decision-maker as well, and his passing has always left much to be desired. He's a great crunch time performer, but that's where his advantages end.

Blake sucks, no doubt about it, but he's better (or less of a negative) than Fisher.

[dockingsched]

man, just looking at those stats and it gets me riled up as how the hell the lakers two most used lineups, that happen to include kobe/gasol/bynum...are barely outplaying their opposition. the same lineups with just the addition of blake all appear to be a billion times more successful in most cases.

the lakers starters should not be playing the opposition to basically a stand still with kobe/gasol/bynum on the court. sucks to see fisher the man go, but boy did fisher the player need to get phased out in favor of sessions and even blake.

now if SF would've been upgraded too...argh.

[Kilroy]

Yeah, that seems to show MWP sucks pretty bad too... Hopefully Sessions can off-set some of that sulkiness too. If not, we still might be somewhat of a mixed-bag...

But clearly, Fish was a huge liability on D so with any luck Sessions can make a big impact there.

[desertlakerfan]

man, just looking at those stats and it gets me riled up as how the hell the lakers two most used lineups, that happen to include kobe/gasol/bynum...are barely outplaying their opposition. the same lineups with just the addition of blake all appear to be a billion times more successful in most cases.

the lakers starters should not be playing the opposition to basically a stand still with kobe/gasol/bynum on the court. sucks to see fisher the man go, but boy did fisher the player need to get phased out in favor of sessions and even blake.

now if SF would've been upgraded too...argh.

As long as Sessions fits in, I have a feeling everyone will magically forget about our SF "problems".

Metta can't hit shots, that's a given, however as long as we don't have 2 offensive voids in the starting lineup we're fine. Metta still brings lockdown defense, something that we'll need if we want to win in the post season and Barnes is also still our best bench player. SF is not a big problem, PG has always been the main issue with this team. It's always easy to blame Metta when the team struggles because of his offensive ineptitude, but the guy who cant shoot or defend has always been the real culprit.

[RocketPower23]

To be fair, Artest has shown signs of life in the second half of the season. His numbers aren't good, but they're almost sorta respectable compared to the first half of the season.

[kevin_405]

Every GM makes mistakes and almost every team has bad contracts.. The important part is how big are the bad decisions.. In case of Mitch his bad decisions are not something that have destroyed the franchise.. and most of the bad decisions were a result of pressure of the old CBA which allowed teams to throw money..

On top of that Mitch has done a great job using draft picks as bait to bring in serviceable talent to replace bad contracts..

With the current roster if we lose we cant say bad contracts screwed this team. We tried Fisher last at PG and did not work, a change was due.. The most important criteria in sending away fisher was to prevent issues for Mike brown.. You want your coach to coach rather than spend time deciding who is the starter and who is the bench player.
There was also the risk that Mavs would not give us the pick next year in which case there was no way for us to trade away Fishers contract.

The equation is simple Fish for Beasley would have been great.. Fish for Hill is getting rid of line up issues for Brown.

After they got Sessions, one of Blake or Fish had to go (because they can't really play together effectively).

The first choice was to trade Blake ... but could not.

Plan B was trading Fisher it had to be done in the sense that one of Blake or Fish would have been "expensive" for the Lakers third string and out of the rotation.

Kupchak is forever trying to clean up his mistakes (and he does a pretty good job at it).

Blake was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by dumping a 1st rounder and Fish to make room.

Walton was a bad signing, corrected (after five years) by dumping a 1st rounder.

Radmanovic was a bad signing, corrected (after two years) by getting cheaper w/Morrison and better w/S.Brown.

Brian Cook was a bad signing, corrected (after a year) by acquiring Ariza.

Vujacic was a bad signing, corrected by getting cheaper.

I guess my only problem is that after making this bad contract decisions it takes soooo damn long to correct them.

He's got to get better at signing guys though. If Blake had never come at his price, we'd either still have Fish as the spiritual leader or a much better player than Blake.

All that being said, Blake will adaquately push Sessions, and be a good backup ... I'm confident in that.

It just must be said that the Lakers went into yesterday's deadline trying to dump Blake, not Fish, it had to be done because of the bad decision to sign Blake to that contract in the first place.