Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[tontoz]

Mcgee/6th pick for Dwill, which was reportedly available before the draft last year, looks pretty good right now. I remember that the majority of the board was against this.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

When James died on Good Times, Florida said, "Damn, damn, damn."

The more I think about this ...

The Kings refuse a deal that would send Cousins to Denver. The Wizards send McGee to the same team that drafted Faried and who also wanted Cousins....

What if the Wizards had traded McGee to the Kings along with the lottery pick for Cousins? It's not like they don't KNOW the dude plays well with John Wall. It's not like Cousins isn't a tremendous rebounder. It's not like Cousins cannot play with both Booker and Seraphin. Maybe the Wizards could have had Cousins and saved FA money. He's 9 years younger than Nene and already better and much cheaper.

"Damn, damn, damn"

And if you want to improve the backcourt, the Kings were trying to move Tyreke Evans. Could have tried Nick Young and the lottery pick for Evans. That option would have been Evans and FA money. SMH, who wants those guys on rookie deals. The Wizards need a veteran presence.

Instead of the pick, just go all in for Batum or Ilyasovo are Anderson. Ehh, what do I know?

[BanndNDC]

1. very grunfeldian trade. sad to see it looks like he's not getting fired in the offseason.
2. the trade was ok. my only real complaint is that they didn't get one of the clippers or nuggets late firsts (in exchange for one of our 2nds). i dont think he did a good job squeezing a little bit of extra value out of the situation considering that based on LAC's needs and Nene's salary we seemed to have more leverage then he assumed.

On Faried. Yes we should have drafted him instead of Singleton. There many people (like me) on here who wanted him with that pick just as there were many people on here who wanted Blair before. It was a bad choice but Singleton did drop which threw a wild card into the mix. Just like Nick Young before when confronted with the opportunity to pick a guy who was projected higher (and probably not scouted extensively) it can be hard to resist. An NBA GM is paid to resist those perceived bargains but as a human being I can understand how difficult that actually is.

[closg00]

1. very grunfeldian trade. sad to see it looks like he's not getting fired in the offseason.
2. the trade was ok. my only real complaint is that they didn't get one of the clippers or nuggets late firsts (in exchange for one of our 2nds). i dont think he did a good job squeezing a little bit of extra value out of the situation considering that based on LAC's needs and Nene's salary we seemed to have more leverage then he assumed.

On Faried. Yes we should have drafted him instead of Singleton. There many people (like me) on here who wanted him with that pick just as there were many people on here who wanted Blair before. It was a bad choice but Singleton did drop which threw a wild card into the mix. Just like Nick Young before when confronted with the opportunity to pick a guy who was projected higher (and probably not scouted extensively) it can be hard to resist. An NBA GM is paid to resist those perceived bargains but as a human being I can understand how difficult that actually is.

THIS!!!! Why do we always get the short-end of the deal this-way??? The Clippers made-out like bandits especially.

[fishercob]

The Clips were only in the deal because Nick had leverage. The way I am reading things Nick said "no" to going to Denver, so bringing in a third team that he would agree to go to was necessary. The Clips clearly weren't after Nick, he just fell in their laps for free so they said "hey, why not?"

[Ruzious]

Mcgee/6th pick for Dwill, which was reportedly available before the draft last year, looks pretty good right now. I remember that the majority of the board was against this.

Yeah, I think it could have been a realistic scenario to have gotten both DWill and Faried last offseason - to go with a high pick and a ton of free agent money into this offseason.

[hands11]

Nivek, you make the point that we can't justify trading for an expensive player by saying we aren't going to attract a good free agent. Without arguing whether Nene makes any sense, it does make me think again about all of the things we had hoped that Leonsis would do when he bought the team that might make us seem more attractive to free agents -- Revamping the training and medical staff for example.

The more we invest in externally visible factors that create an impression of the Wizards as a stable well run organization, the less we hopefully will have to overpay players in the future. Dallas had a crappy reputation before Cuban took over, but I remember hearing stories about dvd players and screens in every locker, hiring twice as many coaches for player development than anyone else, etc.. As a result they're a free agent and trade destination for better players now. I wish we were seeing more of that here. Beyond the argument over Nene's value, I'm celebrating that we won't be on the negative highlights on ESPN as often now the cinnamon kids are gone.

And that doesnt show up in the stats line. They are a better team now then they were before the trade. Bottom line. They are way more mature and now have a solid post player.

When it the last time the Wizards had a post player as good as Nene ?

[Rafael122]

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03 ... ine-moves/

[hands11]

Yes, there could be a silver lining IF Nene can stay healthy and they pair him with Seraphin, now THAT I would like to see. I hope Witt is smart-enough to try it.

Actually, all the combinations should be better.

Just watching them last night without Nick and McGee taking ill advices shots was a pleasure. The team looked more balanced even without the addition of Nene. Wall drove more. Mason shot more. KS rebounded and scored. Booker set up KS once and then KS returned the favor soon after. The ball moved without sticking as much.

This team needed to move forward and it wasn't going to do that with those two here. The drama of those two is done vs living through the rest of the season not knowing what would happen.
They needed a vet post player badly. They have had nothing since Haywood left. Nene is a solid vet and he should fit well with this group and help make them better. Finally, a leader for the young post players.

They were better yesterday then the day before simply by removing Nick and McGee, and when Nene gets on the court, they will be better yet.

[dobrojim]

miller

The big gamble here is whether or not Nene is regressing. I happen to think that he'll be a productive center for the Wizards throughout his contract and that big-men are the most overpaid position in basketball. Getting a near All-Star-caliber center for two players who lower our collective I.Q and generally embarrass the franchise is just fine in my book.

This sums up my current take on the deal. Can Nene revert to something closer
to his average over the last 3-5 years. He's not THAT old so I don't see this as out
of the realm of possibility.

The 2 goofballs had to go. I assume Cook is expiring or near expiring. The 2nd pick
is WAY down the road and not of much value.

It is ironic that GMEG traded for a guy Kev had just done some analysis on
which would have suggested not to make this move.

ccj

This move should be more embarrassing than McGee, who has been low-balled and who is much, much, much better than most DC fans know. I am beyond disappointed at this trade.

At this point, I think most Wiz fans have a very good idea of what kind of player McGee
is. It's past time to move on. It's pretty unlikely that McGee, because of his lack of
defensive acumen, will ever be a rotation player on a really good team. He simply
handicaps the team defense too much.

Ruz

I would much rather have Spencer Hawes at 9 mil a year (if he gets a clean bill o health - and he did play yesterday) than Nene - approaching 30 and obviously declining - at 13 mil a year.

Injury issues? Plus who cares what anyone of us might rather have? The NBA
doesn't work that way.

Dallas

We would have had to overpay to retain McGee and Young. They aren't winners and while there is a chance they both could still become productive players for winners, they both would have combined to make more money than Nene. Also, we need bbiq more than young talent, as shown with the lack of improvement this team has shown in the last 2 and a half years.

B-

+1

Hermitkid

CCJ, concerning his PER I'm not overly worried about his production primarily because I don't think scoring matters as much anymore at that position with the way the game has changed.

(some snippage)
As frustrating as McGee was to watch on defense, I still like the kid and I'll be watching a lot of late games from now on, but if we look back at this trade a few years from now, count me in the camp of naysayers.

I think his deficiencies on defense are beyond fixing.

PER discounts defense IIRC. Defense is really the main reason we could no longer
afford to have McGee be a major rotation player.

CCJ

I would pay McGee $9M because he's as effective as DeAndre Jordan and he's 24, not almost 30.

I disagree that McGee is as effective as Jordan and that's not even say /that/ much.
Defense!!!

7Day

If we were going to abandon this rebuilding plan, I would’ve traded for a player like Dwight Howard (even though is wasn’t possible), or someone who’s worth all their contract. We traded young for old, and we’re far from ready to compete.

hypotheticals are fine for internet BBs. But they're kind of like reality TV.
Not much real there.

nivek

What were the options? Be still. Sometimes the best move is to not make one. I think this is one the Wiz will regret down the road. By the end of this contract, they're likely to be looking for way to dump it on someone.

Quite possibly. But the prospect of having McGee and Young simply wasn't tolerable.
If Juwan Howard can be traded, so can an aging and ineffective Nene in 3-4 years.

mmat11

Yep. Agreed 100%.

Anyone who believes this is a good trade is being emotional and not rational.

and the folks on the other side aren't being emotional at all. SMH. How rational
would keeping the low BBIQ guys around for more embarrassment be?

CCJ

Oh, by the way, the Nuggets were so desperate to get rid of Nene they tried to trade for DeMarcus Cousins, but the Kings refused.

Proving exactly what?

fugop

I give this trade an A+ -- it's far better than anything I thought possible. With one move, we've gone from having the worst collective IQ in the league to above average.

People are reacting to this as though it's a bad move based on Nene's fit with the future roster, his age etc. From my perspective, that's an irrelevant consideration; we're just starting the rebuild, and this is the final clearing-house move. The players we drafted with longshot hopes that they would realize athletic potential after seasoning on a veteran Arenas-Butler-Jamison team are finally gone (except Blatche, unfortunately).

+1

tontoz

I have mixed feelings. My big reservation is the size of that contract. Ugh. I am not as concerned about his injury history although i don't know what this years injury was. I am not too concerned about his age either since his game isn't based on his athleticism. It is based on strength, skill and IQ.

His rebounding has always been pretty weak too. Someone needs to really step up their rebounding.

Defensively he is a light year better than Mcgee. I think people will start to realize just how bad McGee's defense was after watching Nene for awhile.

I do share these reservations but I was simply done with watching
athletes who were better athletes than they were basketball players.

Benjammin

One other point to this would be that it should eliminate Sullinger as a possible pick because Nene and Sullinger are both floor bound guys who work well in the paint offensively so they don't mesh well together.

I might go a little further than that and say it eliminates Cs from draft consideration,
unless you consider AD a C and we win the lotto. I don't see us looking at Zeller
anymore. The possibility of trading down in a 2 for 1 deal and addressing SG AND SF
is intriguing. And rather than close the door on Seraphin, I think he (KS) will get at least
as many minutes as he got with McGee around.

CCJ

McGee is going to have more impact on big games than Cousins in the very near future.

...

McGee is a stud

Positive impact? What makes you say that? Why should he suddenly become a winner
when he's shown no signs of it so far? McGee has the BBIQ of a stud horse with a brood
mare in heat in the next corral.

Nivek

Nah. There's always another move that comes along. Having to pay Someone to play center doesn't make it smart to pay THIS GUY $13 million. More options would have been available in the offseason.

I don't disagree but would simply point out that a move on our part now
doesn't preclude more moves later. Your argument works both ways.
Kind of like when we got Hinrich...we didn't like how much he was
getting paid since it didn't make sense for our team at that time.
Worked out OK though.

LR

My excitement isn't about Nene per se (although I do like him as a player). But it's more about the signal this sends - that the Wizards aren't just going young and hoping for the best, but they are now seeing that they have to start winning games and they are prepared to spend money to do it.

And anybody who believes that tanking is the ultimate answer is also being emotional in the sense that you're hooked on hope. "Maybe this time the ping pong balls will bless us with a star." Is banking eveyrthing on luck really rational? The tanking had to stop and now it looks like it's going to.

2 good points

nivek

Trading Blatche for anything would have been addition by subtraction. This deal: not addition by subtraction.

I normally have a hard time disagreeing with you. This will have to be an exception.
We had to get rid of the knuckleheads.

OK. This is too long...sorry.

[hands11]

Ruzious, no.

I never would have picked Faried 6th in this past draft. But that doesn't make me right. In fact, it makes me wrong.

Regardless of what Chad Ford, Jon Givony, ESPN or any GM said, Faired at 6 would have been the correct move. He's the best player in the draft other than Irving.

You are right in that the second whiff is more egregious because the salary there makes Faried an absurd steal. But if we had traded both picks for Faried we would be in a better spot than we are today.

Sad but true.

I completely disagree - even using the hindsight that you're using.

When you know that Faried could be had later in the draft - where you already have a pick, strategically it would have been the WRONG decision to pick him 6th. The whiff at 6 was not missing on Faried. It was in not using the pick smarter. BB would have been a smarter use of the pick then Faried or Vesely. Trading the pick could have been a much smarter use of the pick.

Which is what I wanted.

[dobrojim]

Raffy, Cousins is the guy I took so much crap for saying he'd be very good. Now you're saying he's more talented than Javale?

The crap you get primarily is about Cousins being a better prospect than Wall. I doubt you'd find anybody that wouldn't sign off on a McGee for Cousin's deal. Complete no-brainer.

The crap I get is from people who forget I never said Cousins straight up for Wall.

On draft day I did think Cousins was better. I thought that a long time. (I wonder if the Kings would trade Cousins and Isaiah Thomas for John Wall and Jan Vesely?)

I think most of you are not big enough to admit you said things like Cousins was a team cancer, he shoots a low eFG, he's no good, I want no parts of him. Sacramento wouldn't make the deal of Nene for Cousins. That should tell you something.

DeMarcus is floor-bound and he makes worse decisions than Javale. What he is is an elite rebounder. He can spot up and hit the open shot. He plays with raw aggression. He's refined his game. But he doesn't have the physical tools to be an elite player.

Javale on Denver is going to be interesting to watch. He won't have to deal with guards who don't know a bad shot from a good one, guards who cannot pass to bigs, guards who do not have to defend, or a bad head coach.

We shall see about McGee.

I think people were justifiably afraid that Couz could be a cancer not
that they KNEW he would be. The potential was and still is there.
Many of us, myself included, thought Couz should have gone 2nd or at
worst 3rd in that draft. There is no question of his talent.

[hands11]

Mcgee/6th pick for Dwill, which was reportedly available before the draft last year, looks pretty good right now. I remember that the majority of the board was against this.

Yeah, I think it could have been a realistic scenario to have gotten both DWill and Faried last offseason - to go with a high pick and a ton of free agent money into this offseason.

I still dont want D Will on this team. Not a fan.

[dobrojim]

Oh, and I love that they made the deal the night on the Hornets game. No way the Wiz have enough bodies to win - and that's a two-game swing in the tank race. We'll need those games once Nene starts playing down the stretch, we might actually win some games.

best laid plans of mice and men

[dobrojim]

Watch Mcgee blow up now. Like all wizard big men traded away young.

when did brain transplants become successful?

[Illuminaire]

You don't make long-term roster decisions based on the media making fun of the team. The way to tell the team needed to make changes was the record and the team's overall performance. And, the need to make changes does not mean that this change is the right one.

I'm still waiting for the list of reasonable options to get an average to above-average center on a good deal, Kevin. (I actually expected you to really find some and show me I was wrong, lol!)

Without establishing reasonable probable future options over the next two seasons that would be clearly superior to Nene, at least in efficient use of cap space, the anti-trade argument lacks teeth.

[Nivek]

...the prospect of having McGee and Young simply wasn't tolerable.
If Juwan Howard can be traded, so can an aging and ineffective Nene in 3-4 years.

If keeping McGee and Young wasn't tolerable, there was an easy solution: let them walk after the season. Then use the cap space to acquire other players.

The worry I have about trying to trade an aging/ineffective Nene in the future is that the Wiz may end up having to eat another crap sandwich to unload the contract. It seems like they're in a bottomless pit of bad to iffy contracts, and this is yet one more. I don't think the trade they just made creates good opportunities and flexibility down the road -- especially the way they're talking about it. Every comment from Ted and Ernie is about "certainty." I think that "certainty" is fool's gold.

[miller31time]

You don't make long-term roster decisions based on the media making fun of the team. The way to tell the team needed to make changes was the record and the team's overall performance. And, the need to make changes does not mean that this change is the right one.

I'm still waiting for the list of reasonable options to get an average to above-average center on a good deal, Kevin. (I actually expected you to really find some and show me I was wrong, lol!)

Without establishing reasonable probable future options over the next two seasons that would be clearly superior to Nene, at least in efficient use of cap space, the anti-trade argument lacks teeth.

Agreed. The only two I've seen thrown out are Anderson and Batum. Both are best-case arguments because both are likely to be locked up by their respective teams. But we still have enough capspace to get one of them on the off-chance they aren't re-signed.

So, again, I fail to see the argument from the side that believes in pure cap-space.

[fugop]

People here are bickering over sunk costs. I understand the impulse, and it's necessary to evaluate historical performance of a guy like EG, but the sense of loss or frustration evident here is not productive.

Faried is a great guy and appears to be a very good player. As I said when the Jeremy Lin phenomena was at its peak, this year is going to produce a bunch of statistical anomalies, especially rookies who are able overperform as unknown quantities. Faried may be a Ben Wallace caliber player, but his performance this year should be heavily discounted in evaluating his future prospects.

The same logic applies to players who haven't shown much, like Vesely and Singleton. They look horrid, like complete busts. But they are both system players, and there hasn't been time for a system to be built here given the compacted schedule, a problem compounded by coaching turnover and general organizational dysfunction.

If they still look terrible in a year, we'll know that the last draft was a whiff. The timing of EG's contract renewal is bad, and I think that his overall record of mediocrity justifies a new direction, but I don't think last year's draft should figure into the decision calculus.

[fugop]

I should add, I grew up in Kentucky, and went to the University of Louisville. My mother went to Morehead, and my father is involved in secondary education at the state level back home. I took my dad to the Big East tournament last week, and he couldn't shut up about how excited the Morehead guys were about Faried's performance. The community around the school really likes him and is proud of him.