The class argument

[snaquille oatmeal]

ok so it is agreed we are all torn about Fish leaving, but most of us are happy he is gone.

I keep reading the word "class" being thrown around a lot by nostalgic posters and professional writers and even effin A Smith whom I don't consider either, but a human garbage spilling megaphone. But seriously folks is it really a question of class?

Steve Nash is staying in Arizona because of loyalty to the Suns and it is admirable, but most people would rather see him win a championship.

Kobe will have to decide if he wants to finish his career with the Lakers in a couple of years when the Lakers will no longer be willing to pay him a max contract.

so what is the "classy" alternative?

We have to keep in mind that professional sports are a subset of the entertainment business and as such it should be treated like one.

The bottom line on the Fisher situation is that The Lakers are not disrespecting Fisher by trading him. They are improving the team.

Fish will get his place in Lakers history and the Lakers will honor that. I have no doubt. As far as showing him respect, well he did start for the past 3 years when he would have been a bench warmer on any other team. we kept his ironman streak alive even when it hurt us (yes it did hurt us). If that is not class then I don't know what is.

The Nash situation is just dumb for the Suns and for Nash. If Nash is loyal to the franchise and the fans he should let them rebuild without him so they can win and if the Suns are so loyal to Steve let him go get a ring somewhere else. that would be the classy move imo.

The Kobe dilemma is trickier. We don't know how good Kobe will be in a few years and to complicate matters more Kobe himself won't see how good or bad he will be. I think that situation will be out of the Lakers hands. Kobe is the one that will have to decide if he wants to stay for a lot less money or go ring chase somewhere else. Either way it is hard to see what the classy thing to do is in that situation.

your thoughts?


EDIT- dammit I'll have to change my avi

[Gek]

The moment Jerry and Phil left, Fisher had to have a feeling his days were numbered. It's tough because even though we're all going to be happy seeing a competent starter, I don't think many of us wanted to lose his locker room presence.

[ShowtimeFan]

Most Teams show a certain amount of loyalty towards their players, but it should always be in the context of helping the Team, when the Lakers gave d Fish his last contract, no one objected, same with Luke's and Kobe's.

But when you see Luke NOT earn any of his money that last 3-4 years, when you see how much Fisher has slowed (at 37) it certianly looks bad now.

When Kobe is making $30mil, it may very well be impacting everything else the Lakers do. Kobe's next contract "OFFER" from the lakers will probably be in the $15mil range (give or take), so we will have to wait and see if he is insulted by that, if so he may very well leave..

Lakers will survive...

[miggs]

The moment Jerry and Phil left, Fisher had to have a feeling his days were numbered. It's tough because even though we're all going to be happy seeing a competent starter, I don't think many of us wanted to lose his locker room presence.

Agreed, it's going to be tough not seeing Fish there but as Snaq so well put it

Fish will get his place in Lakers history and the Lakers will honor that.

[miggs]

Most Teams show a certain amount of loyalty towards their players, but it should always be in the context of helping the Team, when the Lakers gave d Fish his last contract, no one objected, same with Luke's and Kobe's.

But when you see Luke NOT earn any of his money that last 3-4 years, when you see how much Fisher has slowed (at 37) it certianly looks bad now.

When Kobe is making $30mil, it may very well be impacting everything else the Lakers do. Kobe's next contract "OFFER" from the lakers will probably be in the $15mil range (give or take), so we will have to wait and see if he is insulted by that, if so he may very well leave..

Lakers will survive...

If Kobe leaves because he refuses to accept he's not the man any more and can't command the salary he's getting now then fine, good riddance. I adore Kobe, I truly do, I was just coming into my teens when Kobe hit the league. I'm not embarassed to say that reading about Kobe's work ethic as a kid made me realize his success had a lot to do with his insane work ethic. If you out work your competition any talent you have will flourish. However, I feel Kobe is one of those who thinks he will always be in his prime and probably tarnish his legacy with an ill-fated career elsewhere just like Jordan with the Wizards. For me, Jordan retired in 1998 and NEVER came back. I know Kobe will retire like Jordan, once he's got nothing left and no one is willing to pay him. It'll be very very sad indeed but I don't see Kobe accepting a bargain deal on his next contract and I for sure don't see him passing the team to someone else. Kobe isn't Duncan, nor KG/Pierce/Allen gotta be real.

[dockingsched]

yeah, i find it funny when people talk about class. its all business.

funny how it works out, anyone remember how fisher got that contract? he used the newly formed wade/lebron/bosh and the heat as leverage to get the lakers to pony up some more cash.

[kblo247]

Fish started because Blake's sucked the past two years worse than he has, and Jordan was Deron and every other PGs bitch in the playoffs. Phil not liking Jordan freezing out the bugs and wasting clock was also a reason. It isn't like Fish didn't earn his keep. Playoffs come and his minutes and averages went up. He was truly the lone playoff pg on the last finals teams here as Jordan disappeared hard most of the postseasons. He was the only guy besides Kobe whose road averages increased over decreasing in every round, as Pau, Lamar, and Andrew saw their averages dip away from staples in that second title run. He was the defacto secondary closing option in every big game. He also was dead even with Blake who people want to praise this year lol. Let's not act like he hurt us when his damn backups sucked and couldn't take the job or handle playoff pressure. Smush, Atkins, Tiere, Farmar, Shammond, McKie, and even Blake now hurts us more than Derek ever did.

[eckoner]

I get it....People simply have a hard time with change! I agree Fisher is a class act but so are many other players out there and many more who have come and gone.

He still gets paid and probably more than all of us put together on this board. If i were a player making millions and i got traded sure i might be a bit hurt but then i go home to my multi million dollar home via my two hundred thousand dollar car, have dinner cooked by my live in chef while watching a sreener copy of my buddy Will Smiths new movie while sipping a glass of $500.00 a bottle aged scotch, then get tired and go sleep with my ex-model wife who is wearing a million dollar ring i bought her.

Then i wake up in the morning and go to work with my new team.

We will quickly forget just as the professional bball player Fisher someday will.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Fish started because Blake's sucked the past two years worse than he has, and Jordan was Deron and every other PGs bitch in the playoffs. Phil not liking Jordan freezing out the bugs and wasting clock was also a reason. It isn't like Fish didn't earn his keep. Playoffs come and his minutes and averages went up. He was truly the lone playoff pg on the last finals teams here as Jordan disappeared hard most of the postseasons. He was the only guy besides Kobe whose road averages increased over decreasing in every round, as Pau, Lamar, and Andrew saw their averages dip away from staples in that second title run. He was the defacto secondary closing option in every big game. He also was dead even with Blake who people want to praise this year lol. Let's not act like he hurt us when his damn backups sucked and couldn't take the job or handle playoff pressure. Smush, Atkins, Tiere, Farmar, Shammond, McKie, and even Blake now hurts us more than Derek ever did.

now that we agree that Fisher hurt us let's talk about the class argument.

[LLcoleJ]

It's a sad day that we had to trade Fisher. I absolutely love the guy. He will always be a Laker IMO.

He has really never been good as a PG. Solid leadership and clutch shots. But as an everyday PG. Nope, never. I knew that when he was running with Shaq and Kobe. I knew that when he left for GS/Utah and I knew exactly who he was when he came back to the Lakers. He was needed on that second champ squad as a leader, a bridge. But now, we are a vet team that needs to win games and make a run for the title.

That being said, I am glad that we made a trade for "basketball reasons" and not emotions.

Fisher is fine, he is a professional. He has had a great career, made great money and will always have a home in LA/Lakers.

I love the guy and I wish him luck and can't wait to see him back with the Lakers in some capacity. Coaching staff, mentor, front office or cheerleader.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Phil XI just posted here, ish just got real!

[LLcoleJ]

[Rox_Nix_Nox]

we'll have to burn with Kobe, deal with it.

[semi-sentient]

If I wrote software as poorly as Fisher plays basketball my ass would have been fired a long ass time ago.

People get too emotionally attached to NBA players and treat them like gods, and that's why you have all these "class" arguments. Fisher started for the Lakers a lot longer than he should have, so I don't see what the complaints are about. We can all pretty clearly see that he hurts the team most nights, so the organization had to do what was best for them. Period.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Fisher had played in over 500 games for the Lakers when they decided not to retain his services after the 2003-2004 season. That was after three rings and the heroics. Where was the class then?

In fact, prior to that season, he had played in 544 games for LA. Since he came back, he's played in 371. The bulk of his career with LA was before he left for GS.

I don't buy the classless argument. It's professional sports.

[chefy]

gonna miss him because of chemistry...like i said before im big on team chemistry, never underestimate team chemistry...and hes a great locker room guy, a great glue guy. do i want him back? maybe, but like everyone said not as a player. maybe as a mentor, assistant coach, or maybe a playing coach (if hes ok w/ being a 4th string pg) or whatever. but really im done with fish being a player. the guy had cost us a lot of games already.

[crimsonkb24]

You are happy fish is gone? You are not a true lakers fan

[snaquille oatmeal]

You are happy fish is gone? You are not a true lakers fan

ok so now in order to be a true lakers fan you should not want the team to win?

[DEEP3CL]

This has nothing to do with class, as a GM you've got to be able to separate being sentimental to a player and how it correlates to a teams over all and long term well being. Even when the media asked Mitch if he called Fish......c'mon the man is working against a deadline, he doesn't have time to go on a back and forth with a player he's about to deal.

Yes the FO has made some bad tasting decisions with staffers and so on, but even in this case Mitch has no time to hit Kobe up for an "opinion". Kobe would be a dumb ass if he couldn't see we needed quick help at the 1. Even if Kobe dislikes it what the hell is Mitch gonna do ? Say, "OK Kobe we'll keep Fish" even though it was a point of need.

If the old trade/chill for 30 days was still in effect.....hell that would've benefited us to a tee. There would be no sentimental feelings, but thanks to teams abusing that sh*t Stern (Lord Vader) fix that.

Let me state, I only didn't like the deal from an internal point of view. But being good in the locker room wasn't going to improve us, wasn't going to win us nothing and wasn't going to fix and set this team up long term. On the court is where it was going to happen, we'll recover.

Being sentimental can set a team back for decades.......ask the Celtics about those last days of the late 80's and early 90's what that got them ?

Hanging on to things too long is the death of most teams in sports.

[Rox_Nix_Nox]

we traded him to cut salary. More than likely we didn't win this trade, as far as improving the team.