Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[tontoz]

Players age differently. Going by Nivek's numbers Nash should be falling off badly at age 38.

I have no evidence to back this up but it is my impression that skilled bigs tend to age better than most. Guys who rely heavily on athleticism (Iverson for example) generally don't age well.

I am thinking the 30s won't be kind to Josh Smith.

[Rafael122]

Ya know what - while I'm not real excited about the trade - it's certainly not awful, and it could turn out well. And it's a lot safer than if the Wiz had saved the money to use mostly on McGee - which could have turned out to be awful. So I will try to keep an open mind and be optimistic.

At least we're not the Nets, so things could be worse.

[thinker07]

Evaluating this past draft Ves/Singleton/Leonard/etc. leads me to the conclusion that that there are VERY FEW young players that aren't better on good teams and worse on bad teams. There aren't many players who wouldn't do better playing in the set up they have in San Antonio than what we've had here in DC. You wonder what Vesely would have looked like on a well organized and coached team and a more specific limited role. For the Wiz though, Vesely, hasn't yet overcome the circumstances. He had really never even played against Americans. No Summer League, abbreviated camp - much of which he missed anyway, no in season practice, change in coaches, everything in disarray -- all made it hard for him to do well this year. The timing of the whole lockout really hurt him more than anyone on the team.

While most on this board hated picking Vesely (me too), the pundits mostly loved it and labeled him as a likely early star. Even now, most analysts figure him to ultimately "get it" and become a lot better fairly soon. I really believe that he will be better than he has shown.

[Rafael122]

I don't like what I see from Vesely but give him an actual offseason, camp and preseason games and then get back to me this time next year.

[The Consiglieri]

JAR -- I think it's reasonable to think Nene might have 2-3 good years left. Unfortunately, he's signed for 5. Which is why I don't think it's the right move for the team long-term. I think by the time they have enough talent with enough experience to think about contending for a title, they'll need a replacement for Nene. I think he's at just wrong age for the Wizards at this stage in their rebuild.

If he has 2-3 good years left, then we're only going to be getting screwed for 1-2 years, and since one could be a marketable asset. That's not so bad. My fear is that he looks over as a long term prospect in late '12-'13, or early the following season, now that would hurt. If he can finish out this year, and give us 2-3 more good years I'd be fine with the deal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here is what should have happened:

1. Coaching should have noticed what we saw in 2010-2011 when Javale and Andray were suspended for fighting each other. Defense was much better with Booker and Seraphin.
2. Instead of allowing McGee's mistakes to cause a negative vibe, he simply should have been benched in favor of Seraphin.
3. A wise coach, and not one who tolerates shot jackers, should have praised Seraphin's emergence and at the same time praised McGee for continuing to play with 100% effort off the bench.
4. McGee being a bench player would not be credited with bogus contract demands that never were validated.
5. People who want a defensive C would realize Seraphin might be a better defender already than Nene. Denver traded Nene for a reason.
6. Instead of allowing an inept GM and a lame duck head coach to make long-term decisions, no move should have been made until someone like Kevin Pritchard made the call, and Dave Joerger was the coach.

Good grief, CCJ. You talk out of both sides or your mouth so much it makes my ears hurt. It was you who screamed from the mountaintops all last season that McGee was much better than people give him credit for and that he deserved more minutes and less reprimands from the coaches. Indeed, you rightfully pointed out that McGee led the team in PER and on/off differential. Now you're trying to say that management made some kind of colossal screw up by not playing Seraphin more? WTF?

You're only hearing in one ear. You've also got selective memory. I also can't help it if you cannot keep pace with dynamically changing events. I knew when Seraphin's PER was 8 that he was a better defender than Javale. What made Javale was the rebounds and his top ten NBA FG%. What made Javale was his shotblocking. What I figured out was the greatest thing about Javale being up and down is the backup is getting better and better.

I posted many times I thought Seraphin was overtaking Javale. Javale was last in on/off this season and first last season. The reason was Seraphin's defense improved quite a bit. I kept posting play Seraphin with McGee but you ruled that out, saying it was absurd.

Seraphin doing well has nothing to do with not taking on Nene. I said many times I would be happy for McGee to do well elsewhere. I hoped the Wizards would get a late first for him. I figured if they were really so worried about his price tag the smart (but not necessarily ethical) thing to do would have been to bench him for Seraphin and praise Kevin while driving Javale's demands down.

The number one thing should have been to keep track of the real issue: FEAR of signing knuckleheads drafted by Ernie because he wants to keep his job. He already is STUCK WITH BLATCHE, the one guy they should have traded Nene for. Instead, he gave up a player out of FEAR of what McGee might ask for.

Last thing, you might want to look back at some game threads where I did say bench McGee. Unlike some of you, I could see keeping him as even a bench player for $8M. Ernie has already given Blatche almost that much. Javale is more gifted and useful, EVEN IF SERAPHIN IS A BETTER DEFENDER.

What I wanted was Seraphin with McGee and a new coach smart enough to figure out how to make it work.

[Silvie Lysandra]

I fully expected that another organization would think that they could rescue a 24 y/o talent and help him reach his full potential. Watch JaVale in 2-3 years, not now.

Name one guy like Javale McGee who a coach has "rescued" from a bad organization and turned into an All-Star. Closest I can think of is Rasheed Wallace, and he was an All-Star-level performer before he went to Detroit.

No matter how much you wish for the Development Fairy to be real, she isn't. McGee is what he is, and what he is was clear by year 3.

[pancakes3]

No matter how much you wish for the Development Fairy to be real, she isn't. McGee is what he is, and what he is was clear by year 3.

bears repeating in bold

[popper]

I don't mean to dis Vesely. It's not his fault he was picked at #6. Every player on my son's high school basketball team shoots better than Ves (and they are 15,16,17 yrs old). You don't have to be a sophisticated basketball scout/gm to understand that if you can't shoot at age 20 or 21 then subject player should be slotted as a second round-type pick at best. It's mind boggling EG made this choice over the best rebounder in college basketball.

[closg00]

No matter how much you wish for the Development Fairy to be real, she isn't. McGee is what he is, and what he is was clear by year 3.

bears repeating in bold

Because bolding and repeating makes-it true. None of us knows for-certain what kind of player JaVale will be in three years, but we do know that big-men take longer to develop.

For now I will side with the Nuggets organization and their development "faries"

[Cramer]

Well, obviously. Had you forgotten that I am a f*cking genius?!?!

Well, I had forgotten that. In fact, I don't even remember thinking it.

But you just made some damn good points.

[Cramer]

No matter how much you wish for the Development Fairy to be real, she isn't. McGee is what he is, and what he is was clear by year 3.

bears repeating in bold

Because bolding and repeating makes-it true. None of us knows for-certain what kind of player JaVale will be in three years, but we do know that big-men take longer to develop.

For now I will side with the Nuggets organization and their development "faries"

Oh good lord, you still expecting it to click for Blatche?

Sooner or later it becomes time to **** or get off the pot. McGee just got kicked of the pot. If he blossoms, I'll be happy for him.

No I won't, but I'm not going to lose a moments sleep worrying about it.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Following the trade for Nene departing McGee and Young, this is what I am now seeing in my Wizard's crystal ball for another Ernie Grunfeld offseason...


#1 New coach hire:

This will obviously be D'Antoni. Grunfeld and D'Antoni are a perfect match. Ernie will view him as a "proven" and well respected head coach with an uptempo style of play perfect for Ernie's roster. Nene, Wall, Vesely, Booker, Crawford, etc can all benefit from an uptempo style.

#2 Draft:

What is lacking from the roster than D'Antoni will require are shooters. Enter SF Harrison Barnes who adds another young player to market with Wall, fill the SF void and his strong point is his shooting ability.

Free Agent:

Again easy. With the departure of Nick Young we need help at SG. A perfect Grunfeld/D'Antoni guy who is an unrestricted FA is Marco Belinelli. 26 yrs old, shooting 40% from 3 this season, and a euro. He will be Ernie's big FA signing, who can be had because Washington is viewed as a major city internationally, and after playing in New Orleans will be impressed with DC.


To stress this is not MY plan, that would be drafting T.Robinson and signing Batum, and bringing in a heady up and coming new coach not a retread.

But this is what the crystal ball forecasts for Ernie Grunfeld's offseason.

Wizards 2012/13

Coach D'Antoni

C - Nene, Seraphin
PF- Vesely, Booker
SF- Barnes, Singleton
SG- Belinelli, Crawford
PG- Wall, Mack


Hope you all like it!!

[hands11]

Ted's take:

Yesterday’s Trade Activities for the Wizards
Posted on March 16, 2012
If you can believe it, the trade deadline ended at 3:00 pm and our 3 team trade was finally approved via conference call by all parties and the NBA at close to 9:00 pm. The trade was a very complex one with Nick Young having to approve the team that he eventually would play for as he held Bird rights and the dollars having to line up team by team.

The docket was full at the league offices. There were many trades throughout the league and we weren’t official until late into the evening. We couldn’t comment on the trade until it was officially blessed by the NBA and we didn’t send out a press release until late into the game against the Hornets last night. This is the reason we weren’t able to comment or blog about the trade yesterday. I apologize if this caused any of you any inconvenience.

I had the chance to speak to one player last night – Nene – at about 10:00 pm. I look forward to also speaking to Brian Cook later today.

I wish to thank Nick Young and JaVale McGee for all of their contributions to our franchise. Ronny Turiaf as well. I wish them well and I am sure they will flourish with their new teams.

The trade was made for the several reasons. We have been crystal clear with our rebuild plan. We are celebrating young players and we have a commitment to add to our young players with picks this coming off season. We needed to add some certainty to the line-up via a veteran presence. Both Nick Young and JaVale McGee were free agents or restricted free agents this coming off season. By adding Nene – who is under contract – and is a mature and proven player, we now have secured a point guard (John Wall) and a big man – post player (Nene) – for a reasonable and certain period of time. We can build around these two positions via the draft and via additional trades and via free agency.

We will have a high first round pick this coming off season as well as a high second round pick as well. We haven’t altered our rebuild plan in the least. We will be one of the youngest teams in the NBA. We have more moves to make certainly but this set of trades positions us well to continue to re-craft our team and refocus our culture to one that is serious and is about winning.

Nene is coming to us from a winning program. He has played in a system that we admire. It is up tempo and high scoring and he has good hands; runs the floor well; and is very strong. He is a team first kind of player. He is about winning and is a respected teammate.

He is a family man; a player who is secure in who he is; and a player who has battled through adversity and is dependable and strong in spirit. I very much enjoyed my conversation with him last night and know our fans will appreciate his brand of intensity and the way he plays the game. It was nice to hear analysts on NBA TV call him a “Top 10 center” in the NBA.

As you saw last night in the game against the Hornets this is John Wall’s team to run and having a polished big man who likes to move; sets hard picks; plays defense; is humble, mature and blends in a team setting will help us to segue to a next generation of player and culture for our franchise.

We have a lot of work to do still. I understand that fact. We made a big move and made a big investment in our future yesterday. Help us to welcome our new players to our great city and to our community in the coming weeks. Thank you for caring so much.

One last point: In reading some emails and some blog posts, it is apparent to me that the new CBA and some of the rules regarding how trades are made are perhaps not fully understandable. Would it be helpful if one day we held a chalk talk to explain how the rules work and how trades get made so that you as opinion leaders are more informed about process and methodology around trades? Let me know. Thank you.

I would suppose with this blog post that maybe our interests on draft day are pretty transparent. We're gonna go for help at the 2 or 3 on draft day. Thorpe suggested that basically if we can't get one of the big 3, we should be looking at Barnes and Beal as the next best options considering our needs. So I imagine our draft board is Davis because he's Davis, or barring that, the best 2's and 3's in the draft. Guys like MKG, Barnes, and Beal.

I wonder where Drummond is on their board?

I continue to pray for Beal then. 2 and 3 help is what I have been targeting for us all along. Though Robinson, Henson and Tyler are interesting also. Barnes fill a need, I'm just not a fan.

Nene makes sense because he adds maturity to a front line that desperately needs it. KS and Ves are still youngins.

[hands11]

Since you're talking about Singleton, I can only really speak on what I know from his college days but Singleton improved dramatically when he became "the man" and vocally led them on defense and offense. I think as his rookie jitters wear off, you'll see some significant improvement on defense at least as he becomes a veteran. He's definitely not a guy that doesn't try and improve and just rests on his laurels.

Lets hope so. Because of now, it isnt looking like a good pick. I have more faith that Ves will take a big leap then Singleton at this point. He needs to get that outside shot falling just to be a good bench player. SF help is on the way. He will not be starting next year.

[hands11]

The $13M per year thing is troubling. Two buts, though.

1) The fact that it's a flat $13M is nice. If the cap grows, his hit relative to the cap obviously shrinks and we wont be in the stupid situation we were with Jamison where his game was declining and his salary was increasing

2) For the next couple of years the money shouldn't matter. Next season Nene is going to make $13M. Nene is going to be taking minutes currently occupied by Baltche, Turiaf and Mcgee, who this year combine to make about $13M. McGee is obviously going to get a significant raise from someone this summer. Booker and Seraphin are locked in dirt cheap for two more years.

The final two years of the deal is when it could get really dicey -- the new CBA will be kicking in, we'll want to give extensions to Booker, Wall, and maybe Seraphin.

Damn, I hope they know what they're doing. And as nate says, Anthony Davis could fix a lot of this angst.

See, this is the kind of analysis we need. Fish, you've really captured the discussion. This is a significant upgrade for us in the near-term. And in the long-term...well, let's cross that bridge when we come to it IMO.

When Gil's deal looked like a millstone that couldn't be moved, we were able to get significant savings by swapping him for Lewis. The Spurs were able to swap Richard Jefferson for a guy in SJax with a shorter contract. Heck, Portland just got a high lottery pick to unload Gerald freaking Wallace. There are always opportunities to make moves in the NBA.

Basically I'm saying let's get good first, and then we can worry about the cap 3+ years down the road. By then the contract may not even be an issue. But it certainly could be, that risk does exist. Or we could have a team poised to take the next step and are able to add the final piece because we've got a still-decent big man on a large expiring deal to offer in trades. Let's see how it plays out.

This is nothing new. I have been saying this for a while in the rain of tank talk. It is nearly impossible to rebuild and change a team culture using just young players. It can be done but it is really hard and could take forever. You have to get good and have maturity to grow around.

They have enough young talent. What they were missing was mature vet talent that fit the rebuild. And as we have seen, you can draft good young player almost anywhere in a draft. Specially in the 9-15 range.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here is what should have happened:

1. Coaching should have noticed what we saw in 2010-2011 when Javale and Andray were suspended for fighting each other. Defense was much better with Booker and Seraphin.
2. Instead of allowing McGee's mistakes to cause a negative vibe, he simply should have been benched in favor of Seraphin.
3. A wise coach, and not one who tolerates shot jackers, should have praised Seraphin's emergence and at the same time praised McGee for continuing to play with 100% effort off the bench.
4. McGee being a bench player would not be credited with bogus contract demands that never were validated.
5. People who want a defensive C would realize Seraphin might be a better defender already than Nene. Denver traded Nene for a reason.
6. Instead of allowing an inept GM and a lame duck head coach to make long-term decisions, no move should have been made until someone like Kevin Pritchard made the call, and Dave Joerger was the coach.

Good grief, CCJ. You talk out of both sides or your mouth so much it makes my ears hurt. It was you who screamed from the mountaintops all last season that McGee was much better than people give him credit for and that he deserved more minutes and less reprimands from the coaches. Indeed, you rightfully pointed out that McGee led the team in PER and on/off differential. Now you're trying to say that management made some kind of colossal screw up by not playing Seraphin more? WTF?

nate, just so you know where I stood, I posted this on February 28, 2012:

The Wizards never try to go big using Seraphin with McGee. Instead of getting frustrated with Javale's defense they could try for more points in the paint at the other end by going big. Seraphin defends better but can also score inside and with hook shots. He and McGee would score even better than Booker with McGee IMO. At times, Booker could be with the two of them at SF.

Instead of allowing guards to jack shots they really could try to let the bigs have a crack at it.

The Wizards lack imagination on how to use their personnel.

Here is a link to the Fire Grunfeld thread where I said the same things I've said yesterday and today. Be very clear: I don't mince words. I failed Calculus 1 the first time, but that didn't stop me from getting a math degree. I'm not as dumb as I act. (I tutored calc not too long ago BTW)

posting.php?mode=edit&f=35&p=30629926

[nate33]

Here is what should have happened:

1. Coaching should have noticed what we saw in 2010-2011 when Javale and Andray were suspended for fighting each other. Defense was much better with Booker and Seraphin.
2. Instead of allowing McGee's mistakes to cause a negative vibe, he simply should have been benched in favor of Seraphin.
3. A wise coach, and not one who tolerates shot jackers, should have praised Seraphin's emergence and at the same time praised McGee for continuing to play with 100% effort off the bench.
4. McGee being a bench player would not be credited with bogus contract demands that never were validated.
5. People who want a defensive C would realize Seraphin might be a better defender already than Nene. Denver traded Nene for a reason.
6. Instead of allowing an inept GM and a lame duck head coach to make long-term decisions, no move should have been made until someone like Kevin Pritchard made the call, and Dave Joerger was the coach.

Good grief, CCJ. You talk out of both sides or your mouth so much it makes my ears hurt. It was you who screamed from the mountaintops all last season that McGee was much better than people give him credit for and that he deserved more minutes and less reprimands from the coaches. Indeed, you rightfully pointed out that McGee led the team in PER and on/off differential. Now you're trying to say that management made some kind of colossal screw up by not playing Seraphin more? WTF?

nate, just so you know where I stood, I posted this on February 28, 2012:

The Wizards never try to go big using Seraphin with McGee. Instead of getting frustrated with Javale's defense they could try for more points in the paint at the other end by going big. Seraphin defends better but can also score inside and with hook shots. He and McGee would score even better than Booker with McGee IMO. At times, Booker could be with the two of them at SF.

Instead of allowing guards to jack shots they really could try to let the bigs have a crack at it.

The Wizards lack imagination on how to use their personnel.

Here is a link to the Fire Grunfeld thread where I said the same things I've said yesterday and today. Be very clear: I don't mince words. I failed Calculus 1 the first time, but that didn't stop me from getting a math degree. I'm not as dumb as I act. (I tutored calc not too long ago BTW)

posting.php?mode=edit&f=35&p=30629926

CCJ, you said that in February of freaking 2012. Your original rant laments that the coaches were too stupid to figure that out in the 2010/11 season. Well, I'm saying that YOU were too stupid to figure it out in the 2010/11 season as well, so how can you complain about the coaches? You didn't figure it out until 3 weeks ago.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Forget it, nate.

You say I am talking out of both sides of my neck and now you say I'm stupid.

I say you are a mod and you need to act like one.

Coaches get paid in the millions. So does the GM. The owner is a billionaire. I was a fan about 33 years before any of the current guys came on the scene. Probably, you were in diapers around 1974.

All I have is an opinion. If you don't like it, just ignore my posts.

I don't need to do is go after you personally over your opinion. I am going to avoid name calling. I think ideas are public domain and up for debate. I think opinions about coaches are up for debate. We have threads where we admit when we are wrong. We debate. It is much ado about nothing.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of trade checker trade ideas, probably 1 in 300,000 or some other near-astronomical number comes true. This is about as relevant as fantasy sports. Not much matters.

One thing that does matter to me is people. I don't really need to get in flame wars or personal attacks. They happen. Had a real good one with tontoz. Even in the midst of it, he didn't go the "You're stupid" rout.

You are entitled to your opinion of me. Doesn't really matter so long as I don't violate TOS or cross the line on this forum. I just have ideas, some are wrong.

[dangermouse]

Hate to interrupt this but I just wanted to ask:

What can we expect with Nene? Ive seen him play a handful of times but i didnt really take much notice because Melo was the focal point of that team.

Is he a good p'n'r guy for Wall or is he more of an iso/back to basket guy?

When we gonna see him in a uni, next game?