Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[hands11]

Saw this posted on another board. Are these numbers accurate ?


But this is trading a player who has a 19.3 PER but allows opposing centers a 22.0 PER (net -2.7) for a player that has a 17.1 PER while playing center but only allows opposing centers a 10.1 (net +7.0). That’s a 9.7 PER differential right there! Granted, Nene’s numbers are much worse when playing PF, but there’s a solution for that – don’t play him at PF!

[hands11]

Forget it, nate.

You say I am talking out of both sides of my neck and now you say I'm stupid.

I say you are a mod and you need to act like one.

Coaches get paid in the millions. So does the GM. The owner is a billionaire. I was a fan about 33 years before any of the current guys came on the scene. Probably, you were in diapers around 1974.

All I have is an opinion. If you don't like it, just ignore my posts.

I don't need to do is go after you personally over your opinion. I am going to avoid name calling. I think ideas are public domain and up for debate. I think opinions about coaches are up for debate. We have threads where we admit when we are wrong. We debate. It is much ado about nothing.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of trade checker trade ideas, probably 1 in 300,000 or some other near-astronomical number comes true. This is about as relevant as fantasy sports. Not much matters.

One thing that does matter to me is people. I don't really need to get in flame wars or personal attacks. They happen. Had a real good one with tontoz. Even in the midst of it, he didn't go the "You're stupid" rout.

You are entitled to your opinion of me. Doesn't really matter so long as I don't violate TOS or cross the line on this forum. I just have ideas, some are wrong.

Classy response. Not sure I could have mustered that up. The internet name calling stuff get real old. People don't act like that when they talk face to face. If they did, there would likely be a fight.

This format provides an opportunity for us to interact about a common topic we take an interest in. There should be a little more self control given the behind the curtain nature of it.

[JonathanJoseph]

Wow has this thread gone off the rails...

As I said in my earlier post, this thread will prove to be an argument against the stat heads. Nivek, my business is data and I believe wholeheartedly in the value of data but it will never be useful outside of the context of human interpretation.

You show various data sources that claim that players rapidly decline by 24 or 27, yet all recent NBA history shows NBA titles being won and best NBA players all being significantly older than that age range. Billups, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Gasol (both), Derek Fisher, Tyson Chandler, Dirk, etc. Not a single one of those players had noticable decline in EFFECTIVENESS at 27, even if their statistics may have suggested a decline. They may not have rising PERs but they have wins and losses and playoff series and championships. It's a truism that young teams don't win in the NBA. That age data is simply put, misleading. It's a false positive.

Now, could Nene be on the decline? It's possible. But the determining factors are specific to Nene, not having to do with the average age of NBA statistical decline. The data would say that Steve Nash isn't possible.

Even if McGee blows up, the Wizards just locked up a solid NBA center by giving up 2 players who are literal jokes around the league. The Warriors are dancing a jig that they got a real NBA center (at a similar annual salary to Nene) and they gave up a franchise mainstay who is a legit offensive weapon (the fans are furious) and a promising 2nd year big man. To reiterate, the Wizards gave up 2 two players at the end of their contracts who were so awful that multiple media outlets are making them the butt of recurring jokes.

Those of you who think Nene is old, consider that he's younger than Tyson Chandler. I don't think anyone would suggest that Chandler is on the decline and it appears he is just hitting his stride.

If Nene stays healthy, it's a hugely successful trade.

[dangermouse]

JJ we dont always agree but that was very well said and I +1 it all the way.

Just at the height of "Jafail McGee anti-Highlight" Youtube reels, we manage to trade him for an established guy, directly after he made it known he is looking for a huge double figure pay day. I just hope that the Nuggs dont know something about Nene health-wise that our medieval druids and shaman that we employ as "team doctors" will/have missed.

The only negative that comes with this is that we might become too good the rest of the year, go on one of those patented "Wizards latter half win streaks" and end up with the f****ing 6th pick again. At least this time around we could get someone like Beal or Zeller though which is good. Moultrie. Lots of good names there that could help us.

[Jimmy Recard]

Agree on all accounts, JJ and DM.

The way I look at it, ernie had 3 options:

1. Re-sign javale for something close to what he's seeking (10-12 mil). As ludicrous as that is, he'll be getting that this off-season from someone.

2. Let him walk. In which case, we go into next year with a void at C. Lose a 12 and 10 guy for nothing. Four years spent developing a young, talented prospect is wasted.

3. Trade him. The right move.

Ernie absolutely made the right move here. Nene may have reached his ceilIng already, doesn't have the length, athletIcism and shot blocking prowess that javale has. But he's a consistent 15 and 8 guy, with postseason experience, a great attitude, who you can count on to understand his role/limitations and be mentally ready and focused every night. Something that can't be said about Javale.

[no D in Hibachi]

Wait a second, was McGees counterpart PER really 22.0? Not only that but his PnR conterpart PER must have been 25.0+ and people are sad we dumped him? Sure, I understand why many may not be happy with Nene, but getting rid of McGee is such a huge step towards turning this thing around. He's the captain of th tank, not Blatche.

[nate33]

Forget it, nate.

You say I am talking out of both sides of my neck and now you say I'm stupid.

Sorry CCJ, that came out wrong. I used the term stupid for brevity while making my point. I don't consider you stupid at all (and you didn't actually accuse the coaches of being stupid either). "Mistaken" would have been the more appropriate term.

I'm just calling you out because you had a longstanding position that McGee was the best player on the team and now you are trying to argue that the coaches should have recognized that Seraphin was better. That's a cognitive dissonance that I don't think you are fairly acknowledging.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, I think what Nate was referring to there was that you said over and over again (and I remember this because I would often post in response to you, and you would just ignore me) during the offseason and last season that Flip was an idiot because he wasn't giving McGee enough playing time - when he played - if I remember correctly - 27 minutes a game last season. I pointed out several times that there were other starting centers - like Hibbert - that played essentially the same amount of minutes, that McGee had trouble getting winded, and McGee often got in early foul trouble. Remember that? We had that series of posts several times. I don't think you ever responded to me - but I would point it - if nobody else did - every time I saw you post your familiar rant.

Anyway, now the coaches did exactly what you said they should do - played him more minutes - and you're saying any smart coach should have known that Javale should have been... a bench player.

Hopefully, that gives you some perspective on why some people react to your posts the way they do.

[closg00]

Agree on all accounts, JJ and DM.

The way I look at it, ernie had 3 options:

1. Re-sign javale for something close to what he's seeking (10-12 mil). As ludicrous as that is, he'll be getting that this off-season from someone.

2. Let him walk. In which case, we go into next year with a void at C. Lose a 12 and 10 guy for nothing. Four years spent developing a young, talented prospect is wasted.

3. Trade him. The right move.

Ernie absolutely made the right move here. Nene may have reached his ceilIng already, doesn't have the length, athletIcism and shot blocking prowess that javale has. But he's a consistent 15 and 8 guy, with postseason experience, a great attitude, who you can count on to understand his role/limitations and be mentally ready and focused every night. Something that can't be said about Javale.

Ernie had other options, he just chose the riskiest and most expensive one.

Other options:

Option 4. Promote Seraphin to starter (That is why we drafted him, no?)
Option 4a Save cap space and sign one of the other available UFA Centers: Seraphin/?

Spencer Hawes
Aaron Gray
Hamed Haddadi
Greg Stiemsma
Semih Erden
Omer Asik

Option 4b Bring back Hamady as a back-up

Option 5: Sign a foreign center.
http://www.eurobasket.com/freeag.asp?Posit=5

Option 6: Draft another center
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

Now that we have Nene, I hope that we shift-gears and move towards having a better mix of vets to rookies. John deserves to go to the playoffs next-year.

[tontoz]

Hate to interrupt this but I just wanted to ask:

What can we expect with Nene? Ive seen him play a handful of times but i didnt really take much notice because Melo was the focal point of that team.

Is he a good p'n'r guy for Wall or is he more of an iso/back to basket guy?

When we gonna see him in a uni, next game?

His calling card is defense. He has the size and strength to hold his ground against anyone but is quick enough to make good rotations. He has no IQ problems like the guy he replaces.

He is an efficient scorer but has never shown the ability to be a volume scorer. He is like rich man's Booker. maybe he could be more of a volume scorer here since he isn't playing with a lot of scorers like he was in Denver.

[GhostsOfGil]

Wait a second, was McGees counterpart PER really 22.0? Not only that but his PnR conterpart PER must have been 25.0+ and people are sad we dumped him? Sure, I understand why many may not be happy with Nene, but getting rid of McGee is such a huge step towards turning this thing around. He's the captain of th tank, not Blatche.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS15.HTM

82 games has his counterpart per of 22 but that site has been slow to update as of late. Not sure how accurate those numbers are.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Forget it, nate.

You say I am talking out of both sides of my neck and now you say I'm stupid.

Sorry CCJ, that came out wrong. I used the term stupid for brevity while making my point. I don't consider you stupid at all (and you didn't actually accuse the coaches of being stupid either). "Mistaken" would have been the more appropriate term.

I'm just calling you out because you had a longstanding position that McGee was the best player on the team and now you are trying to argue that the coaches should have recognized that Seraphin was better. That's a cognitive dissonance that I don't think you are fairly acknowledging.

No, I have said coaches and Ernie are stupid--and worst.

I said he was most effective, and that was up until earlier this season, when Booker took that spot.

I said Seraphin has always been the better post defender. I said Seraphin actually scores on the block better than anybody on the team. That I only said recently--probably a month back--as Kevin finally got some burn after Flip was fired. His offense is what has come a long way this season. I really didn't think that last year.

My main point about supporting Seraphin and even making comments that Seraphin was overtaking McGee is all of this concurred with Javale's increasing WTFs. The who thing happened dynamically. Even with McGee's offensive efficiency high, a very clear trend happened this season that wasn't as pronounced last season. However, things got worse for McGee when Wittman took over. As Javale'e PER rose to around 19.5, and his rebounding rate grew far greater (about 2 more per 36 minutes) than the recently acquired Nene's, Javale's PnR defense got worse. He made more highlight reels for the wrong reason. The rapport between Wittman and McGee appeared to be very bad. This is when I began to post play Seraphin more.

Honestly, my standing statement about McGee is that 4 or 5 WTFs still do not replace the fact that he's one of 4 players in the NBA averaging over 11 points, 8.5 rebounds, and 2 blocks IIRC. I believe Nivek's efficiency is on point and I also believe nerdnumbers is very clear on his effect.

The Wizards just gave away a guy who is worth 8-9M probably 10M. I say that knowing what i said about Seraphin, too. Marcus Camby had many of the same defensive issues McGee does now. He was no better rebounder than McGee. To read Ted's statement mention Nene is a good rebounder showed me just how misinformed the owner has been by EG and his people.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... yma01.html

My comments about Seraphin overtaking McGee remind me of when the Knicks had Mark Jackson as reigning rookie of the year. They drafted Rod Strickland. Did one PG being on the bench make the other bad? Did Strickland have a good career elsewhere? Likewise, Kevin Johnson was behind Mark Price. Likewise, Steve Nash was behind not only Kevin Johnson but at one point Sam Cassell and later Jason Kidd. Those guys, however, all played one clear position. I think McGee and Kevin could have played at the same time.

Any way, this might not have cleared much up. Just know that McGee is strong scoring with efficiency and rebounding, and blocking shots. Kevin is nasty, can defend the post, can score inside, and he's a nice shotblocker, too. I compared him to Big Dog Antoine Carr and McGee to Larry Nance. Javale is way too uncoordinated for that to hold up, but he does resemble him when he's fluid with the ball.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I think what Nate was referring to there was that you said over and over again (and I remember this because I would often post in response to you, and you would just ignore me) during the offseason and last season that Flip was an idiot because he wasn't giving McGee enough playing time - when he played - if I remember correctly - 27 minutes a game last season. I pointed out several times that there were other starting centers - like Hibbert - that played essentially the same amount of minutes, that McGee had trouble getting winded, and McGee often got in early foul trouble. Remember that? We had that series of posts several times. I don't think you ever responded to me - but I would point it - if nobody else did - every time I saw you post your familiar rant.

Anyway, now the coaches did exactly what you said they should do - played him more minutes - and you're saying any smart coach should have known that Javale should have been... a bench player.

Hopefully, that gives you some perspective on why some people react to your posts the way they do.

I do remember Oberto playing and McGee on the bench. I do remember Blatche playing big minutes and stinking it up under Flip. I do remember saying over and over Flip was and idiot and that he wasn't playing McGee enough.

You pointed out Hibbert's minutes and you said McGee got winded. I don't recall specifically, but I am sure I pointed to Javale's PER or his WS/48 and said it really doesn't matter what he looks like out there, the instruments or metrics say he's way more effective than Flip's boy, Andray Blatche.

I do remember saying what if Javale played 32 minutes and took X amount of shots.

I think Javale's minutes were far less destructive than Jordan Crawford's and the Wizards coaching staff, their GM, their owner, and most of their fans are misguided. They think McGee was a problem. I think he was an asset. We will alway disagree on that one.

The thing I wanted most was a coach that was not guard/small ball oriented. When you see teams combine two huge guys and make it work, you have to wonder why Washington never did. Blatche plays small and Javale plays soft. Never did try McGee with Seraphin and just minimize the play book. I see Kevin and I see a guy who DEFINITELY can play PF. He's listed as a forward in France and on wiki.

My posts after the deadline were incessant. They were negative. They were cynical. They were condescending. They were spoken in absolute terms. I was disappointed about them jettisoning McGee, while taking on a bad contract, while keeping the worst two contracts. For the Wizards sake, I hope I was wrong and this turns out right.

Here is what I have POSITIVE to say:

--I recall wanting Nene on the Wizards in a post because of his FG efficiency. But that was before I looked at his contract extension.

--I have actually spoken to him before and he seems charismatic, humble, and nothing but classy from what I could tell in probably 1-2 minutes of a fan getting an autograph in an informal setting. My thoughts then were "That guy is going to be a star."

--Nene's got the same temperament and feistiness that Seraphin and Booker, along with Wall, Crawford, Vesely, and Singleton exemplify.

--IF Hilario is healthy this makes the Wizards tougher and maybe better in the short run. They will be taken seriously now.

[VictorPage44]

The only issue I have with this trade is how Nene's salary impacts our cap situation. Otherwise, picking up Nene for NY and mcGee is a no-breainer because Nene knows how to play team basketball -- which btw is the only way to win. Nene is a guy who has led the league in FG% a couple times (he wont take bad shots) and has a good defensive reputation. If he doesnt mope around now because he's on a bad team, his style of play could be infectious in a positive way. A trade had to be made anyway, Mcgee and NY were never gonna get it, they were gonna get benched every time there was a coaching change, and then they were gonna mope around about it afterwards and wonder how someone as gifted as them could get benched. You cant win in the NBA with a team full of toddlers, and it was good for NY and McGee too because they both needed a reality check. If they dont change, they'll just be minimum salary journeymen the majority of their careers.

Replacing NY, who kills offensive possessions, and McGee, who has no basketball IQ what-so-ever and will kill his own team a new way every night, might be worth it just for the impact it will have on the way the rest of the roster plays. This makes the team more professional. Now they can go out and draft an MKG or someone like that and plug him in right away and not worry about how young the team is. Nene kind of re-centers the team whereas mcGee and NY contribute the snowballing of the lazy brand of basketball that the wizards play. As long as they play the right way, their youth wont hurt them, at least until they get to the playoffs -- and we can worry about that when we cross that bridge.

I'm also hoping nene can mentor Vesely a bit. They have similar styles in my opinion, they both move without the ball and make quick decisions.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What really bothers me about Nene isn't his age. It is not really his contract. It's that they traded him.

Nene's Achilles and calf injuries this season and their wanting to deal him as soon as they extended him reminds me a lot of the Philadelphia Eagles letting go of Donovan McNabb. Nene was a Nugget 9.5 seasons. They feel he's on the way down or they never would have dealt him. The Eagles saw the decline before they traded their franchise QB.

Nene's deal is potentially an albatross unless he can regain his form from just over a year ago, and maintain it for the next 2 years. He really only has to be good 2 years--while Wall hopefully continues to improve, along with the talent level on the Wizards.

I wonder if Denver was pretty sure he has played his best ball already? That is what bothered me the most. Achilles injuries are no joke. I ruptured my Achilles in 2007. You don't come back from that 100%, unless medicine has really come farther than I think.

If he can come back to form, however, and play well for 2 years then EG was right.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, I think what Nate was referring to there was that you said over and over again (and I remember this because I would often post in response to you, and you would just ignore me) during the offseason and last season that Flip was an idiot because he wasn't giving McGee enough playing time - when he played - if I remember correctly - 27 minutes a game last season. I pointed out several times that there were other starting centers - like Hibbert - that played essentially the same amount of minutes, that McGee had trouble getting winded, and McGee often got in early foul trouble. Remember that? We had that series of posts several times. I don't think you ever responded to me - but I would point it - if nobody else did - every time I saw you post your familiar rant.

Anyway, now the coaches did exactly what you said they should do - played him more minutes - and you're saying any smart coach should have known that Javale should have been... a bench player.

Hopefully, that gives you some perspective on why some people react to your posts the way they do.

I do remember Oberto playing and McGee on the bench. I do remember Blatche playing big minutes and stinking it up under Flip. I do remember saying over and over Flip was and idiot and that he wasn't playing McGee enough.

You pointed out Hibbert's minutes and you said McGee got winded. I don't recall specifically, but I am sure I pointed to Javale's PER or his WS/48 and said it really doesn't matter what he looks like out there, the instruments or metrics say he's way more effective than Flip's boy, Andray Blatche.

I do remember saying what if Javale played 32 minutes and took X amount of shots.

I think Javale's minutes were far less destructive than Jordan Crawford's and the Wizards coaching staff, their GM, their owner, and most of their fans are misguided. They think McGee was a problem. I think he was an asset. We will alway disagree on that one.

The thing I wanted most was a coach that was not guard/small ball oriented. When you see teams combine two huge guys and make it work, you have to wonder why Washington never did. Blatche plays small and Javale plays soft. Never did try McGee with Seraphin and just minimize the play book. I see Kevin and I see a guy who DEFINITELY can play PF. He's listed as a forward in France and on wiki.

My posts after the deadline were incessant. They were negative. They were cynical. They were condescending. They were spoken in absolute terms. I was disappointed about them jettisoning McGee, while taking on a bad contract, while keeping the worst two contracts. For the Wizards sake, I hope I was wrong and this turns out right.

Here is what I have POSITIVE to say:

--I recall wanting Nene on the Wizards in a post because of his FG efficiency. But that was before I looked at his contract extension.

--I have actually spoken to him before and he seems charismatic, humble, and nothing but classy from what I could tell in probably 1-2 minutes of a fan getting an autograph in an informal setting. My thoughts then were "That guy is going to be a star."

--Nene's got the same temperament and feistiness that Seraphin and Booker, along with Wall, Crawford, Vesely, and Singleton exemplify.

--IF Hilario is healthy this makes the Wizards tougher and maybe better in the short run. They will be taken seriously now.

I'd like to let the post go, but I can't. Are you really saying that it doesn't matter that Javale looked winded - he should have played more since the metrics looked good - his being winded be damned?

And this season, Javale should have been benched for stupid plays, but last season it was a capital offense to do that? Do you realy not remember him making idiotic plays last season - and every season he's been here?

Oberto wasn't even on the team last season. The year before, he was a body - playing 11 minutes a game for 50some games.

[VictorPage44]

I think they traded Nene to make way for Faried. That might have something to do with his age and the chance to get out of his huge deal, but for the wizards, imo his experience is a positive. From his game logs at least, it doesnt look like that achilles is affecting him much. He probably has played his best basketball, however for a young wizards squad who's about to add another top 5 pick, as long as nene can stay on the court, I'll take him over NY+McGee (who, now that i think about it -- and its probably already been mentioned-- combined, will make what Nene's making) or any of those other dime a dozen FA centers mentioned on the last page.

[hands11]

Wow has this thread gone off the rails...

As I said in my earlier post, this thread will prove to be an argument against the stat heads. Nivek, my business is data and I believe wholeheartedly in the value of data but it will never be useful outside of the context of human interpretation.

You show various data sources that claim that players rapidly decline by 24 or 27, yet all recent NBA history shows NBA titles being won and best NBA players all being significantly older than that age range. Billups, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Gasol (both), Derek Fisher, Tyson Chandler, Dirk, etc. Not a single one of those players had noticable decline in EFFECTIVENESS at 27, even if their statistics may have suggested a decline. They may not have rising PERs but they have wins and losses and playoff series and championships. It's a truism that young teams don't win in the NBA. That age data is simply put, misleading. It's a false positive.

Now, could Nene be on the decline? It's possible. But the determining factors are specific to Nene, not having to do with the average age of NBA statistical decline. The data would say that Steve Nash isn't possible.

Even if McGee blows up, the Wizards just locked up a solid NBA center by giving up 2 players who are literal jokes around the league. The Warriors are dancing a jig that they got a real NBA center (at a similar annual salary to Nene) and they gave up a franchise mainstay who is a legit offensive weapon (the fans are furious) and a promising 2nd year big man. To reiterate, the Wizards gave up 2 two players at the end of their contracts who were so awful that multiple media outlets are making them the butt of recurring jokes.

Those of you who think Nene is old, consider that he's younger than Tyson Chandler. I don't think anyone would suggest that Chandler is on the decline and it appears he is just hitting his stride.

If Nene stays healthy, it's a hugely successful trade.

JJ

You need to post more man. You one of if not one of the best posters here. IMMO

We will see if this specific move was the right move but categorically, it was the right kind of move. I thought doing nothing and letting them walk was a good option but it does risk not knowing if you could get a similar level talent in the open market this summer. And it kept those bone heads poisoning this team just that much longer. And Nick wanted 9M and McGee 14M. Sense of entitlement comes to mind. I really don't blame the Wiz for keeping them as long as they did. I blame the players for not growing up and taking advantage of the opportunity. But a more vet team would have promoted that. Even when this team had Haywood, CB and AJ, they had their star as Gil and they had Stevenson acting a fool. Thats right. Mr I am the star but I don't want to be a leader or play defense Gil. Mr funny guy Im difference Gilbertology. Just one of he many reason I said trade him. Even when he was in his prime. That was the best time actually. Gil was never going to lead this team anywhere good. If you don't only look at numbers, you could see that.

But in general, adding some vet quality and ending the pure build through the draft for starters was what I wanted to see. That's why I was for adding a Ray Allen and why I was for a cashing in approach this summer.

As for the draft, last year, I though a trade down may be better then using the pick. Top picks are more expensive and more risky. You take the top pick only if they are sure things like Kyrie. You dont take a D Williams at #2 or Ves at #6, but you take Faried at 22 or Brooks at 25 all day long. Top picks have to be about maturity and personality, not just talent. Wall looked like a sure thing. I wavered some once I saw some sides of his personality but I feel more confident now. Now Ves should work out in time, but this team had many more holes to fill and could have used two lower first better then one higher one.

Any of these young talents like Brooks or Faried or as we have seen even Wall are not going to turn this thing around unless you have some quality vets here also. That is true in general but it is even more true for this team which needs a culture change first because they had players like Nick, McGee and Dray. I hounded on smiley Nick from the very beginning saying it was a very bad sign of his personality. Vet mature culture needs to get established first. This team hasn't had that in years. Last time they had anything that was viably close to that was 95/96. And who blow that up ? Abe. He back stabbed his GM. Lynam left the following year. Pack got injured. And they blow the whole thing up and promoted Wes to front office. I said then that was a huge mistake and it would be a long road before they were good again. Well here we are 17 years later. After Abe, Wes and after EFJ.

If you want to see mature smart professional basketball, you have to have those kinds of players. Rarely is that a group of kids. Not in this league. Not given they are going up against team like Dallas, SA, Boston, Miami, Chicago, etc. Even OKC has Perkins and Nazr Mohammed. And as we have seen, talent that left here to more mature teams played well and contributed to wins and rings.

Adding Anthony Davis wasn't going to turn this aroun. Nor MKG. Not without some core of vet scorers/leaders to plug them into. Most the top 7 in this draft are overvalued IMO. Play it safe. For me the quality/value list for top targets is Robinson, Hansen, Tyler and Beal. With that, you add at least one more quality vet probably at SF. Keep Mason.. add another SG and move Crawford to the bench. Trade Crawford and Singleton if needed. I wouldnt mind trading down for a future #1 and grabbing Beal, Hansen or Zeller. We already have a star young top pick. Use the picks now to build it out. Supplement. I wouldn't swing for the fence again. And no more projects. Davis will be good, but he isnt good value. Not for a team like this that needs so much.

[hands11]

JJ we dont always agree but that was very well said and I +1 it all the way.

Just at the height of "Jafail McGee anti-Highlight" Youtube reels, we manage to trade him for an established guy, directly after he made it known he is looking for a huge double figure pay day. I just hope that the Nuggs dont know something about Nene health-wise that our medieval druids and shaman that we employ as "team doctors" will/have missed.

The only negative that comes with this is that we might become too good the rest of the year, go on one of those patented "Wizards latter half win streaks" and end up with the f****ing 6th pick again. At least this time around we could get someone like Beal or Zeller though which is good. Moultrie. Lots of good names there that could help us.

In my view, that may be the best case scenario. Only thing better would be a lot of close loses, more wins so we are slotted lower where we totally luck out from the lower slot and win a high draft position anyway but trade it down for a future #1 and still get one of those players.

[hands11]

Wait a second, was McGees counterpart PER really 22.0? Not only that but his PnR conterpart PER must have been 25.0+ and people are sad we dumped him? Sure, I understand why many may not be happy with Nene, but getting rid of McGee is such a huge step towards turning this thing around. He's the captain of th tank, not Blatche.

If those numbers I posted are true, McGee is what I thought he was. He was the AJ of centers. Even the other night when he was lighting it up, for ever point he scored, I saw SA turn right around and score on him. It looked to the naked eye like he was playing well, but he really wasn't. Sounds like classic AJ to me.

I loved the kids potential, but I was with Flip and Randy. I harped on doing job #1 first. He needed to defend the post. He never could do that well so I wanted him as a birdman coming off the bench. I wanted that this year in part to set his open market value properly. McGee at 5M off the bench would have been an asset. Minus is dumbness in the locker room. And with no Nick on the team.