Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[hands11]

What really bothers me about Nene isn't his age. It is not really his contract. It's that they traded him.

Nene's Achilles and calf injuries this season and their wanting to deal him as soon as they extended him reminds me a lot of the Philadelphia Eagles letting go of Donovan McNabb. Nene was a Nugget 9.5 seasons. They feel he's on the way down or they never would have dealt him. The Eagles saw the decline before they traded their franchise QB.

Nene's deal is potentially and albatross unless he can regain his form from just over a year ago, and maintain it for the next 2 years. He really only has to be good 2 years--while Wall hopefully continues to improve, along with the talent level on the Wizards.

I wonder if Denver was pretty sure he has played his best ball already? That is what bothered me the most. Achilles injuries are no joke. I ruptured my Achilles in 2007. You don't come back from that 100%, unless medicine has really come farther than I think.

If he can come back to form, however, and play well for 2 years then EG was right.

Health really is the deciding factor on it Nene was the right move, but the move in general was good for this franchise. Even just bringing in he vet presence. But if it turns out to be like Mo, Lewis and Ronny where he doesn't play, then it won't be nearly as good. But he is more in his prime then any of them.

It may be best that they really dont play him much at all this year. Let him heal up for next year. I wouldnt be very surprised if they did that.

[Ruzious]

Fwiw, don't be surprised if Javale doesn't play a lot in Denver. Mozgof is their starting center, and don't sleep on Kostas Koufas. He's coming back from an injury and had a surprisingly good rebound rate before the injury - and he's always had a very nice shooting touch and works well in the pick n roll game. Plus they can play Anderson at C.

I'd go as far as to say - if Denver re-signs Javale, the Wiz should consider making an effort to get Koufas.

[DCZards]

After thinking about the trade for Nene and reading almost all of the posts in this thread, I've gone from lukewarm on the trade to liking it. A healthy(?) Nene gives the Zards a proven low post defensive presence and scorer, as well as, and most importantly, mature and vet leadership on the court and in the looker room. These are all things that many of us said the Zards lacked and desperately needed.

I'm also not buying the view that a soon-to-be 30 years old Nene is over the hill or that his career is in rapid decline. Others here have noted that some players have played well--and indeed won championships --at age 30 and beyond. Even Nene's big contract doesn't bother me anymore since it's about the going rate for a quality NBA big man.

[jivelikenice]

Love the deal. I'm sure its been said here but I do think McGee will get an offer of at minimum $10 MM/ y for 4 yrs, if not a couple million more. What are you getting for that $10 MM? Nothing. We had 9 wins w/ McGee and he continued to embarrass himself & the team. The alternative to paying him would have been to let him walk. Then what? We have cap space for two free agents but who would have come here? We would have had to overpay to bring anyone in and there's still no guaranty we could have convinced anyone to sign.

Nene gives us a legit post presence. Yes he's been injury prone but you also have to keep in mind that a condensed schedule probably has contributed to some issues this year and that won't be the case next year. He also plays for a very deep team with multiple scoring options. I think in Washington her will be looked at as a primary option and you'll see his numbers move in a positive direction. Nene also gives us legitimacy. We now have a more NBA vet on the roster who can play efficiently and understands how to play the game. We've set now at PG & C w/ cap room to spare. We're not in play for a max free agent, but we're alot more attractive to tier 2 FAs now. We have more legit pieces. Before the deal I considered Wall & Booker to be it.

I also think Fegan plays a key role in this. I wonder if he'd be more receptive to directing a FA piece to Washington considering two high profile clients are on the roster. Does he rep any good free agents this offseason?

Just my two cents but i like it. You can argue there are only 20 gams left but in a tight window to develop Wall & Co., every game matters and this move sets a tone.

[hands11]

Fwiw, don't be surprised if Javale doesn't play a lot in Denver. Mozgof is their starting center, and don't sleep on Kostas Koufas. He's coming back from an injury and had a surprisingly good rebound rate before the injury - and he's always had a very nice shooting touch and works well in the pick n roll game. Plus they can play Anderson at C.

I'd go as far as to say - if Denver re-signs Javale, the Wiz should consider making an effort to get Koufas.

Denver was the perfect place for him. Birdman is getting old and McGee is a good option to replace him. That is McGee best roll for now if they can teach him to defend. But McGee has way better offensive potential. If they can get his head turned around, in 2-3 they could have a really good player. A risk they can take that the Wizards could not afford. They have the team structure to do it more then the Wiz did.

And Nick at LAL is a good fit as well. This could work out for all the teams. All the teams took on some level or risk as well.

[thinker07]

A team is greater than the sum of its parts. In a lot of ways, McGee was a fantastic part. The same way that McGee often delivered stats that didn't translate into real winning, though, I think Vesely delivers winning plays that don't translate into stats. Last night there was a play that was illuminating in this regard. Atlanta shot an airball or a bad shot that was headed out of bounds with no Atlanta player nearby. Mack was the nearest Wizard and he easily could have tried to grab the ball - AND the rebound stat. Instead he let the ball simply go out of bounds. This was the smart play and we have seen this play many times where McGee fights his own teammate for the rebound and ends up losing it out of bounds.

In addition, a guy like Vesely is often more focused on boxing out his opponent and letting another teammate get the rebound than he is getting the stat for himself. So how many of McGee's "good" stats were the result of "stupid" decisions? How many of McGee's rebounds came when he took the ball away from his own teammate who was better positioned to get it?

Individual stats often tell a different story than what your eyes tell you watching the floor. I will bet a big sum that Nene won't get a rebound or inbound the ball and throw it right to an opposing team player who then gets a quick basket like McGee will do every game or two. How many of McGee's missed shots or turnovers or goaltends were so awful and unnecessary? Even if McGee doesn't have that many turnovers, how many of them were "bad" turnovers instead of "good" turnovers? Basketball doesn't have a stat for WTF plays and PER doesn't take these into account. But WTF plays are disproportionately damaging to a team - WELL beyond what would show up in the stats. Amazing dunks are just worth 2 points - the same as a simple fundamentally sound post up basket that Nene will give us. But a WTF turnover or bad shot or a rebound fumbled away or a ridiculous goaltend are WAY more damaging that a regular missed shot or mistake because they were totally unnecessary.

So the biggest thing I like about this trade is that we sent out one guy who is a lot worse than his stats and brought in another guy who is probably a lot better than his stats because he just won't do all of those stupid things and probably isn't focused on building his stats for no winning reason.

[sashae]

The Wizards just gave away a guy who is worth 8-9M probably 10M. I say that knowing what i said about Seraphin, too. Marcus Camby had many of the same defensive issues McGee does now. He was no better rebounder than McGee. To read Ted's statement mention Nene is a good rebounder showed me just how misinformed the owner has been by EG and his people.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... yma01.html

Whoah whoah whoah... Marcus Camby was a great defender from the day he stepped in the league -- check out his defensive win shares from your link -- first 5 seasons, he posted DWS scores of 2.3, 1.5, 2.0, 3.2, 5.5. JaVale posted DWS of 0.9, 1.3, 2.5, and 1.1. To call them equals as defenders is preposterous.

JaVale is a talented offensive player with not a lick of sense on defense. Camby was near the opposite.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Camby played with Patrick Ewing and guys like Anthony Mason and Anthony Bonner. McGee played with Andray Blatche.

If you want to see DWS be influenced by a teammate, look at the great DeAndre Jordan before and after Blake Griffin became his PF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Camby as a defender could be attacked by physical bigs. He was always a (way) better defender than Javale, but Marcus has been credited with being a great defender; when, in fact, he is not and has not been a Ben Wallace-type defender.

My only point in bringing up Javale is he is getting better as a rebounder and now he will have better teammates--I expect his DWS will rise and the problems he had at Washington will not be too bad at Denver. I expect he will be a huge success in Denver.

[jivelikenice]

1. I don't see McGee blowing up. Just my opinion

2. It doesn't even matter at this point in time. Right now, the Wiz FO can't responsibly invest $10-12 mm per/yr into Javale based on what they've seen. He might be more effective w/ a strong PF but we just don't know. He was gone either through a trade or as a RFA.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_20 ... z1pOva9EcZ

"We're going to have a new Lob City here," said Nuggets point guard Ty Lawson, who has Kenneth Faried and newcomer JaVale McGee to oop the alleys. "It's going to be fun — (McGee) is a young athletic big (man) who blocks shots and gets down the court. He plays the way we want to play."

The trade of Nene was a strategic move on many fronts by Denver's front office. Nene was not playing at his highest level this season, though he had just signed a huge contract. He continued to be plagued by injuries. His intensity was questioned. And he was under contract for four more seasons. So, Denver sent him to Washington and received a budding (but sometimes head-butting) young center in McGee, who doesn't cost much this season — and if Denver likes him enough to re-sign him long-term, he probably won't cost as much as Nene did.

That is the other side of the coin, Wizard fans.

[fishercob]

I'm warming to the trade. It's a risk, but seems a worthwhile one. Of the guys we discussed -- Bogut, David Lee, Okafor, etc -- I think Nene makes the most sense.

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that we had all of two guys on the roster who could both play the game (talent/skill) and think it (BBIQ) in wall and booker. Well, we have a third now.

And holy cow, look how much better positioned we are getting for the summer of '13 when we'll have 8-10 guys already under contract and around $30M in cap room.

Dwight -- a Dan Fegan client (someone asked) -- will be unrestricted and the new CBA gives him little incentive to stay put versus moving. Harden will be a RFA and OKC will have a tough time keeping him and Ibaka. Hell, if we don't win a top-2 pick I might trade it straight up for Harden this summer. OKC would have to look at something like that versus losing Harden for nothing.

Having another good player raises the stakes for the next two summers. I think it opens up some doors that weren't previously there.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

1. I don't see McGee blowing up. Just my opinion

2. It doesn't even matter at this point in time. Right now, the Wiz FO can't responsibly invest $10-12 mm per/yr into Javale based on what they've seen. He might be more effective w/ a strong PF but we just don't know. He was gone either through a trade or as a RFA.

Based on what I've seen, Ernie Grunfeld shouldn't have been allowed to make this decision. Randy Wittman is an interim coach. It might have been better to wait and see what another GM/Coach said. However, the plan could be to keep EG and Wittman. This is what I expect from the Wiz FO, jivelikenice.

What I think is McGee, even as a role player, is worth 9-10M, to the right coach. Doesn't matter now.

I will be very curious to see how McGee performs the rest of this season, and his career moving forward. Likewise, who signs him and for how much is really going to be interesting. I would be willing to wager (a very small amount ) he will resign in Denver for less than $10M.

[Ruzious]

Fwiw, don't be surprised if Javale doesn't play a lot in Denver. Mozgof is their starting center, and don't sleep on Kostas Koufas. He's coming back from an injury and had a surprisingly good rebound rate before the injury - and he's always had a very nice shooting touch and works well in the pick n roll game. Plus they can play Anderson at C.

I'd go as far as to say - if Denver re-signs Javale, the Wiz should consider making an effort to get Koufas.

Denver was the perfect place for him. Birdman is getting old and McGee is a good option to replace him. That is McGee best roll for now if they can teach him to defend. But McGee has way better offensive potential. If they can get his head turned around, in 2-3 they could have a really good player. A risk they can take that the Wizards could not afford. They have the team structure to do it more then the Wiz did.

And Nick at LAL is a good fit as well. This could work out for all the teams. All the teams took on some level or risk as well.

It could work out that way, though the Birdman still has 2 years left on his deal. I think it's interesting to look at the 2008 draft - Javale was picked 18th and Koufas - who I think people sleep on - went 23rd. But speaking of sleeping - Ibaka went 24th and Batum 25th, and Ryan Anderson went 21st. Minny got Pecovic 31st, LAC got Deandre Jordan 35th, and Portly got Omer Asik 36th - lots of good players - most eligible for RFA this offseason.

Denver's got options - because they have such a deep roster. If Javale gets an offer they don't want to match, they can re-sign Koufas. I doubt they re-sign both Koufas and Javale - given the cost of signing young centers on their first free agent contracts.

[closg00]

Fwiw, don't be surprised if Javale doesn't play a lot in Denver. Mozgof is their starting center, and don't sleep on Kostas Koufas. He's coming back from an injury and had a surprisingly good rebound rate before the injury - and he's always had a very nice shooting touch and works well in the pick n roll game. Plus they can play Anderson at C.

I'd go as far as to say - if Denver re-signs Javale, the Wiz should consider making an effort to get Koufas.

I was just going to post that Denver now has 4 centers, none of them green rookies. Something's got to give.

[jivelikenice]

1. I don't see McGee blowing up. Just my opinion

2. It doesn't even matter at this point in time. Right now, the Wiz FO can't responsibly invest $10-12 mm per/yr into Javale based on what they've seen. He might be more effective w/ a strong PF but we just don't know. He was gone either through a trade or as a RFA.

Based on what I've seen, Ernie Grunfeld shouldn't have been allowed to make this decision. Randy Wittman is an interim coach. It might have been better to wait and see what another GM/Coach said. However, the plan could be to keep EG and Wittman. This is what I expect from the Wiz FO, jivelikenice.

What I think is McGee, even as a role player, is worth 9-10M, to the right coach. Doesn't matter now.

I will be very curious to see how McGee performs the rest of this season, and his career moving forward. Likewise, who signs him and for how much is really going to be interesting. I would be willing to wager (a very small amount ) he will resign in Denver for less than $10M.

I may take you up on that!:)

I'd like to throw out another FA. Lou WIlliams has an ETO and I would think he'd definitely opt to be a free agent. He's a pure shooter who can fill it up in a hurry. He might leave Philly for an opportunity to start (looks like he's been pegged as a 6th man there). His shooting can help spread the floor and he would probably come cheaper than an Eric Gordon type. That might leave us enough money to bring in a Jeff Green type on a 1-yr deal to prove his health...

[truwizfan4evr]

Another chucker. no thanks i rather draft a shooter

[Dat2U]

I'm warming to the trade. It's a risk, but seems a worthwhile one. Of the guys we discussed -- Bogut, David Lee, Okafor, etc -- I think Nene makes the most sense.

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that we had all of two guys on the roster who could both play the game (talent/skill) and think it (BBIQ) in wall and booker. Well, we have a third now.

And holy cow, look how much better positioned we are getting for the summer of '13 when we'll have 8-10 guys already under contract and around $30M in cap room.

Dwight -- a Dan Fegan client (someone asked) -- will be unrestricted and the new CBA gives him little incentive to stay put versus moving. Harden will be a RFA and OKC will have a tough time keeping him and Ibaka. Hell, if we don't win a top-2 pick I might trade it straight up for Harden this summer. OKC would have to look at something like that versus losing Harden for nothing.

Having another good player raises the stakes for the next two summers. I think it opens up some doors that weren't previously there.

So your warming to it, huh? Usually your first instinct is the right one. I think it's a defense mechanism all Wizard fans have. I've seen it with every deal Ernie has made, good & bad. In every case, after a couple of days, the board gets swept up in a groundswell of group think. The trade becomes an obvious positive until were clearly shown otherwise.

To me it's just a bit scary. I'd probably be more confident with the move if Ernie Grunfeld wasn't the one pulling the trigger on it. This has an Ernie style rebuild all over it. And reads nothing like what Teddy Leonsis had been preaching for the longest. It just screams a panicky & desperate GM making one last push to save his job. And McGee struck me as one of those types where the light goes on at some point in his career. Much like it did for for a guy like Tyson Chandler.

Now as I mentioned a few pages back, if this is followed up by an aggressive approach of trying to immediately build a contender by adding additional veteran pieces, then the move makes more sense. But if were simply continuing to rebuild by developing our remaining youth and remaining patient, then I really got to question the logic and timing of this trade.

[closg00]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

[Ruzious]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

My guess is Denver's decision came down to wanting more long term cap flexibility and realizing they could probably get as much production with their center by committee as they could with Nene - and with Faried likely breaking out at PF with a shooting option behind him in Harrington - they really didn't need Nene - especially at 13 mil a year. When you pay a guy 13 mil a year for 5 years, ya gotta NEED him. They don't NEED him.

[Illuminaire]

This is a trade where who "won" will probably be determined by relatively random events. Basically, if Nene stays healthy, we win the trade. He's a better defender and team player by far, he makes us look legitimate to free agents, and he's an efficient finisher on offense.

If Nene suffers one major or a few minor injuries, it's a wash. Maybe he looks like the right choice when he's on the court, but we'll always feel frustrated by the times he's not around, especially if those coincide with the playoffs.

If Nene misses a large chunk of games or suffers serious productivity decline due to repeated injuries, then we lose the trade.

It almost doesn't matter what Javale does, because we can pretty much all agree that he wasn't going to do it here. He was too entrenched in his ways, too sure that he'd already arrived. Maybe the trade wakes him up, maybe not, but it's not even a real factor for who's "right". It's just going to come down to if Nene makes us better, or if he shatters his leg in sixteen places three games in.