Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[ANics21]

Bradely Beal bandwagon.

[Los Manos]

This would be how I see the 2012 draft board groupings for most teams on draft night for the first 15 or so picks (and then in the order that I would draft them). I'm not one to get too excited or down on a prospect because of their tournament play. You can only use it to reinforce the positives or negatives of a player that your team has already scouted their entire career already. So here goes, let me know your thoughts:


Anthony Davis


Jeremy Lamb
Thomas Robinson
Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal


Michael Kidd Gilchrist
Jared Sullinger
Andre Drummond

John Henson
Austin Rivers
Myers Leonard
Kendall Marshall


Terrence Jones
Damian Lillard
Perry Jones
Quincy Miller
Tony Wroten

[Next Coming]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

[Brinbe]

This would be how I see the 2012 draft board groupings for most teams on draft night for the first 15 or so picks (and then in the order that I would draft them). I'm not one to get too excited or down on a prospect because of their tournament play. You can only use it to reinforce the positives or negatives of a player that your team has already scouted their entire career already. So here goes, let me know your thoughts:


Anthony Davis


Jeremy Lamb
Thomas Robinson
Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal


Michael Kidd Gilchrist
Jared Sullinger
Andre Drummond

John Henson
Austin Rivers
Myers Leonard
Kendall Marshall


Terrence Jones
Damian Lillard
Perry Jones
Quincy Miller
Tony Wroten

Not bad at all, solid list. Though I'd personally push Drummond/MKG into that 2nd tier and leave people to list out those five/six players (depending on if you want to include T-Rob or not) in their own personal order. Everyone will have their preferences, and I'd probably go

Drummond -Can't ignore that potential, just can't

Barnes -Think there's a real dearth of 3s with his size/skill-set. Someone in that Deng/Gay mold, very valuable in this league. Guards are a lot more plentiful. Can shoot the ball, and be a great fit next to DD.

MKG -Just a winner. I love this kid. And think he'll do well in the league. Wouldn't surprise me if he returned because he's just that kind of person.

Lamb -Seems like people either love him or hate him as a prospect. I'm a bit in-between, not totally sold, but I think he's shown enough glimpses that I'd be comfortable taking him. UConn talent almost always excel at the next level.

Beal -Really love his game too, but a bit concerned about the size of a Beal/DD combo. Would feel better if he were more of a 1, but can't deny that talent, and would be happy to draft him.

[Marlo Stanfield]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

Because he's 6'5"

[Los Manos]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

He is getting an ridiculous amount of rebounds for a guard. I always think guard rebounding is a bit overrated in the NCAA though and i'm sceptical to how it will translate for someone like Beal. Put him on the raptors and Casey has everyone but one big running back on shot attempts, you don't have the freedom to just attack the boards at will.

I'm not knocking him, I really rate him but I would be intrigued to see some stats on how well guard rebounding translates to the pros in general. I could be very wrong but I just can't see it being likely to translate.

[nahom1319]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

Because he's 6'5"

Because he plays bigger then his size. I watched him boxout Anthony davis and out jump him on several ocassions.

[Truthrising]

We already have Derozen, we don't need another project at the wing... either Anthony Davis or you draft more complete wings who can create on their own at the offensive end like Barnes or Lamb ...

my mistake for not highliting my remarks green. He seems like he's kinda clueless and not really the BC type of guy. Frankly I think the Demar project needs to end and therefore draft an sg that can shoot and facilitate, so i'm all for drafting Lamb or Beale.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Glad you mentioned Siva. I didn't watch the game, but I'm interested in him as a back-up point. The guy seems to have that JJ Barea heart and little man game, with bounce to go along with it!

All I can say about Peyton Siva is that he's got that swagger in his game. I watched the Louisville-Davidson game, and this guy can toy around with his defender any time he wants and gets to the paint on demand. I'm trying to find this sick clip Siva pulled off. Two defenders on him he does a thru-the-leg cross, retreats his dribble with a behind the back then explodes forward with a jumpstop all on the move. **** this guy does with the ball is crazy.

EDIT: The play is at 2:00. Too nasty lol.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMxROuggKMI&feature=plcp&context=C468a07aVDvjVQa1PpcFMZKn_apo422Gi3478S8xL19mfYzIZ50EY=[/youtube]

The guy is nice, no doubt about it. Guys who play with that much confidence and have that much swagger are usually successful even if undersized. Think Isiah Thomas, JJ Barea, Nate Robinson, etc.

[fredericklove]

Undefeated, I did a recap on Barnes' performance.

First half

- Harry did an in & out move and pull up for 3 (missed badly, it didn't even touch the rim)
- First 10 mins, Harry didn't get any touches but he isn't making himself available for touches, being a participant rather than demanding the ball, going through screen but not moving hard enough to get open.
- he also only got one rebound cos he was so focused on covering his defender at the perimeter and didn't go near the rim to get reb.
- Marshall is locked in, he's scoring alot, and only passing it to bigs down the low block, he really completely ignores Harry but can't blame him he's on fire.
- Harry finally showed his aggressiveness, used his superior strength to crash the offensive board in traffic and gather himself in traffic and went up strong at the rim for a bucket (2 pts)
- Harry got the ball in his hand at the wing, spot up for the 3, all net (5 pts)
- Harry got the ball in triple-threat at the right wing, jabstep, dribbles, tries to drive but there's no space in the lane cos Hairston is standing in the far right corner not even getting out of the way to let Harry iso. Harry forced to pass it back out
- Harry just scored another bucket from a mid-range jumper (7 pts)
- McDermott says he's Harry's driver, always drives him to everywhere, and says Harry is a super hard-worker, always in the gym working out his game and getting stronger.
- Harry caught the ball from Marshall and quickly drove and pull up a well-contested jumper and missed the shot, not a high FG% shot.
- Harry triple-threats again at the top of the key, drove to the right, did a wonderful spin to left and tried to lay it up, missed it badly but there was contact but he didn't get the call.

2nd half

- Harry gets no call on several play, especially this time he was going up strong, the defender had hands over him still got no called, rebounded right after the miss, and got foul, no call again
- Harry drove at the top key, there was space in the lane, he got up and lays it in easily. (9 points)
- Harry struggles big time making layups, he missed another easy one close to the basket uncontested
- Harry runs through screen, got himself open for the 3, knocks it down with perfect form release and elevation (12 pts)
- Harry hits back to back 3 (15 pts)
- Harry cleans up the rebound after Mcadoo's miss (17 pts)

The good and the bad

The good is that he still had a calm demeanor despite struggling in the game, he did what he often does in late game, scoring points and being abit more aggressive. He got numerous of plays where he was bumped in the lane but there were no calls. He showed his strength in this game in alot of occasions.

The bad - everyone played well in the entire game so he became more submissive, not demanding the ball and just letting his teammates go on a scoring spree. He made a few contested shots, but really struggled to get to the foul line despite attacking the lane, and really missed a lot of easy uncontested layups. So far this year's lineup had an impact on his tourney play, unlike last year's tourney he was being the focal of UNC offense but now cos of many other players stepping up he just didn't step in the right way like yo u saw in the first few games of the tourney. I hope to see him showcase more in games facing elite teams in late march.

[CunningLinguist]

the draft board has been completely altered this weekend. Most top prospects had a disappointing week.

I don't see why a couple of games should radically change one's opinion of a player if they've seen him play several times before.

Does anybody not remember what a crappy tournament James Harden had before he declared for the draft? Would anybody not want him on our team right now?

[fredericklove]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

He is getting an ridiculous amount of rebounds for a guard. I always think guard rebounding is a bit overrated in the NCAA though and i'm sceptical to how it will translate for someone like Beal. Put him on the raptors and Casey has everyone but one big running back on shot attempts, you don't have the freedom to just attack the boards at will.

I'm not knocking him, I really rate him but I would be intrigued to see some stats on how well guard rebounding translates to the pros in general. I could be very wrong but I just can't see it being likely to translate.

It will be an adjustment, but knowing his style of rebounding is not by out-muscle the weaker defenders but more of picking his spot and knowing where the ball bounces off from the rim. Your question raised about his rebounding whether it could translate or not is a pretty legit question, but it's nice to have someone to have a rebounding instinct, which will do a very huge favor to our lineup since u know how our current guards rebound lol.

[Dr Positivity]

How is a 6'3 Beal such a factor on the boards?

He is getting an ridiculous amount of rebounds for a guard. I always think guard rebounding is a bit overrated in the NCAA though and i'm sceptical to how it will translate for someone like Beal. Put him on the raptors and Casey has everyone but one big running back on shot attempts, you don't have the freedom to just attack the boards at will.

I'm not knocking him, I really rate him but I would be intrigued to see some stats on how well guard rebounding translates to the pros in general. I could be very wrong but I just can't see it being likely to translate.

Rebounding usually translates the best of all NCAA stats. For eg. Turner was at 9.1 a game in 35mpg and currently does 8.6 per 36 in the NBA

I think Beal has a great chance of 6rpg+ in the NBA

[fredericklove]

This would be how I see the 2012 draft board groupings for most teams on draft night for the first 15 or so picks (and then in the order that I would draft them). I'm not one to get too excited or down on a prospect because of their tournament play. You can only use it to reinforce the positives or negatives of a player that your team has already scouted their entire career already. So here goes, let me know your thoughts:


Anthony Davis


Jeremy Lamb
Thomas Robinson
Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal


Michael Kidd Gilchrist
Jared Sullinger
Andre Drummond

John Henson
Austin Rivers
Myers Leonard
Kendall Marshall


Terrence Jones
Damian Lillard
Perry Jones
Quincy Miller
Tony Wroten

I would say Robinson is ranked too high, he's having a stellar season, with his skillset I do see him being a solid big but maybe too high, but it all depends on where teams ranked in lottery. Beal has definitely raises his stock so I won't be surprised if teams draft him higher than his stock projected (6-8). MKG really struggles offensively right now but he still does other things well, but I can't expect him to be drafted in top 4 but I also don't see why he shouldn't be drafted top 4 (4 or 5)tho.

Sully has been somewhat a downer in past few games, and what I saw from ppl in nbadraft who follows him closely is right on him, he tends to get blocked easily and he's less stronger than last year so he really can't outmuscle ppl with equaled strength (saw his entire game vs. gonzaga) but it's a good sign that he has developed a range, it'll expand his game and spread the floor better for others. Drummond is a disappointment but as much as I hate him I still see him drafted in top 4 based on potential, while the rest are alright, Henson could get a shot at late lottery, and PJ3 definitely drops the most on the board. Marshall has the shot at late lottery due to a redefined offensive skill shown in the tourney.

[nahom1319]

Sully has been somewhat a downer in past few games, and what I saw from ppl in nbadraft who follows him closely is right on him, he tends to get blocked easily and he's less stronger than last year...

I at that!!! I didn't have a chance to watch any ncaa ball today how did the matches go? I read Fred's recap on Barnes. Any other good performances?

[fredericklove]

That other poster posted this on his thread, I'm definitely going to watch this on my phone tonight. Can't wait to see MKG's personality on this clip.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZGQJV8iHjk[/youtube]

[Los Manos]

Not bad at all, solid list. Though I'd personally push Drummond/MKG into that 2nd tier and leave people to list out those five/six players (depending on if you want to include T-Rob or not) in their own personal order. Everyone will have their preferences, and I'd probably go

Drummond -Can't ignore that potential, just can't

Barnes -Think there's a real dearth of 3s with his size/skill-set. Someone in that Deng/Gay mold, very valuable in this league. Guards are a lot more plentiful. Can shoot the ball, and be a great fit next to DD.

MKG -Just a winner. I love this kid. And think he'll do well in the league. Wouldn't surprise me if he returned because he's just that kind of person.

Lamb -Seems like people either love him or hate him as a prospect. I'm a bit in-between, not totally sold, but I think he's shown enough glimpses that I'd be comfortable taking him. UConn talent almost always excel at the next level.

Beal -Really love his game too, but a bit concerned about the size of a Beal/DD combo. Would feel better if he were more of a 1, but can't deny that talent, and would be happy to draft him.

Of those five as I group I put Lamb at the top because he has so many translatable tools, he has a dribble, decent first step, smooth jump shot, good athlete and then when he gets measured at the combine he is going to stand out as his wingspan is ridiculous and he looks likely to be measured more at 6'6" in shoes. Scouts have seen him be the go-to guy for USA under 19's and come through, he put that team on his back when it looked like the tournament could have been disastrous for them. And then I look at the UConn offense and think most scouts look at his usage and think they can utilise his strengths far more in the NBA as he has the ball handling to initiate the pick and roll. I don't think staying an additional year has done anything to progress his game, he looks stifled and hampered by the UConn offense but his potential hasn't changed. I think his ceiling is higher than most are seeing right now but I reckon once the combine comes round that will start to show in the mocks.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw7RXNc75Rw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbtin3UBjw&feature=related[/youtube]

Earlier on in the year I was higher on MKG and had him in the second group but he scares me. As you say, great kid, great attitude, high motor but he's still a jack of all trades and master of none. His defense is good but I wouldn't call it elite just yet. I'd be happy to draft him as he will undoubtedly have a long NBA career and his ceiling is still quite high. But I don't think it's appearing as high as it was 5 games into the season. The question marks over how impactful he will ever be at the offensive end are still there. I think scouts will on the whole get sucked in by the 2-way star potential of Barnes, Beal, Robinson, Lamb and he will drop behind them. That might be a huge mistake as MKG has a chance to be special but I think the odds have lengthened as the season has progressed.

Drummond is interesting, I still put him at top 5 as far as talent and there is a chance he goes back into the top 3 if a team believes his skills translate to their system. But I'm putting my money this year on teams going for the higher % picks before a project which Drummond clearly is. He is just so far behind the curve than where any scout thought he would be. He has shown flashes but very limited but again is he just very poorly used for an understandly limited big man skill wise? Though I'm questioning if he will ever utilise his athleticism even if you solely put him in pick and roll's over and over - where he could be a nightmare like that in the NBA with his speed and strength. The likelyhood is that he still shoots so poorly from the line that most scouts will question how you even begin to start developing a player like him so I think he drops to my next grouping.

[sunny]

why would you watch a video on your phone? seems crazy to me.

Anyways- Sullinger has been playing hurt all year and general managers know this. I think this bolds well for him. Last year Derrick Williams played half the season with a broken finger and GM's took it as a huge positive.

I think T-rob could go as high as the second pick and that GM's are really impressed with him. However, I think that he is a bit overrated from how I think GMs/scouts perceive him.

without marshall, UNC is screwed.

[sunny]

Anthony Davis

Thomas Robinson
Michael kidd-Gilchrist
Andre Drummond
Harrison Barnes
Jared Sullinger
Jeremy Lamb
Bradley Beal

everyone else

[Undefeated]

Just read your recap fredericklove. Really appreciate it. So, to me it looks like Barnes had an okay game without even checking the box score yet. Missed shots here-and-there, but mostly was created by him off the dribble. Was Doug McDermott defending Barnes by any chance?