Hibbert, Hill, Barbosa

[pacers70]

I'm just curious to see what opinions everyone has as to whether or not to resign our free agents.

Here is the information that I have come up with in my research.

The salary cap will be somewhere around $60 million, so to make it easy just use $60 million for the cap.

This summer the Pacers will have 7 players under guaranteed contracts totaling $34.6 million. Those players are Collison, George, Granger, West, Hansbrough, Pendergraph and D. Jones. I am assuming Jones will decide not to opt out.

The 1st round draft choice will get about $1.4 million his first year.

So basically the Pacers will have 8 players under contract for $36 million. That leaves $24 million to sign 4-7 players depending on if they want to carry 12-15 players on their roster.

It looks to me like the Pacers can not afford to resign all of their free agents.

What do you all think? Should they even try to sign all of their free agents?

I would be interested to see how you all would fill out the roster and why you would make the moves you suggest.

[granger05]

I don't really care about Barbosa. He had a nice first game for us and he's a solid veteran. Like any singing, if we get him at a good price to fill out the roster then great but he isn't a difference maker.

George Hill seems like the kind of guard that good teams need. I'd like to keep him, but not overpay him. He's been banged up this year with the ankle and shoulder and hasn't put up great numbers or had too many highlight moments so maybe he's under the radar of other teams and we can hang onto him.

I don't want to overpay Hibbert and bigs always get overpaid. In general, the answer to all three of these guys would be that I think a lot of teams get themselves into the most financial trouble (cap-wise) by overpaying their own free agents. It happens all the time. If a guy isn't putting you over the top then you can probably replace him with someone cheaper. Teams that want to maintain continuity of a mediocre roster are particularly susceptible to this. Our team is getting better but we're not contenders by any means.

So, back to Hibbert. I like him a lot, but I'll be surprised if he signed a contract I didn't think was ludicrous. If he really wanted to stay and take less to play here so we got him for something like $10 million per year then that would be great. I think he can be the interior anchor of a good team. He works hard, gets better, and holds himself accountable. If he isn't interested in resigning cheaply then you let him test the market and match if its not too terrible. Don't negotiate against yourself, take advantage of the "restricted" part of free agency (this is true of Hill as well but he's less important). If the money is too much then try to work a sign-and-trade with whichever team is after him. If they're singing him to a big money deal then they'll likely want to move some salary out and if we get back picks or young pieces then taking on some shorter term salary is fine.

Overall, I like these guys fine, but none of them are perennial all-stars or future all-nba players (OK, Hibbert has a non-zero chance of making a 3rd team all-NBA at some point just based on playing center but you know what I mean). I wouldn't want to give up financial flexibility to lock ourselves int the current lineup. The team is considered as up-and-coming mainly because we have a bunch of cheap good players. Once they become expensive good players then you better have arrived because you're unlikely to continue going up. I'd rather have capspace and bad players than good players with large contracts.

[Indy2thaWindy]

Hill needs to be back.

[Wizop]

So basically the Pacers will have 8 players under contract for $36 million. That leaves $24 million to sign 4-7 players depending on if they want to carry 12-15 players on their roster.

so that's four players at an average of 6 million. If Hibbert takes 12, the average of the other four drops to 4. putting names on it that's for Hill, Stephenson, AJ Price, Barbosa, and Amundson. neither AJ nor Lance have shown enough to get much more than the minimum and I don't think any other teams will be starting a bidding war for them. Hill deserves to get paid and I think I'd keep Barbosa too. the rest really depend upon who we draft. Lou has exceeded all my expectations but if we draft a Nicholson, there aren't roster spots for both. same with AJ, if we draft a point guard, AJ is gone.

we probably can't sign Hill to what he wants and Barbosa to what he has been getting but if they meet in the middle we're probably okay.

[Miller4ever]

We can also go over the cap...

[Scoot McGroot]

We can also go over the cap...

Exactly.

Hibbert and Hill will likely be re-signed. IF Barbosa plays VERY well here, and seems to fit, we would likely try and keep him, but likely at a less than MLE price. Over that, and we likely let him walk.

[basketballwacko2]

This is all assuming we don't make some kind of deal in the offseason for Granger or West our highest paid guys. Now that Foster has retired we need a back up Center if we are keeping Hibbert, I think it would be ill advised to let him go. If we were to trade him depending on what we get back I could support that but remember 7'2'' guys who can play don't grow on trees. I'd start at $10 million 4 yrs with a 8% raise and then move up to $12 million 5 yrs with a team option in yr 5.

For Hill We traded Leonard for him so we need to keep him around plus he's a local guy. $5-6 million 4 to 5 years and make him the starter.

I'd Deal DC and Granger to move up in the draft and maybe get an SG, then pick a big in the draft unless someone at SG jumps out at me.

[pacers70]

Thanks for the interesting comments.

Keep them coming.

I think we need to keep Hill.

I don't think we can keep Barbosa.

I'm not sure what to do about Hibbert. There are some young guys with other teams that seem to playing fairly well but not getting the minutes. Ian Mahinmi for example. He is only playing 19 mpg but averages 6.4 ppg and 4.8 rpg. I know those numbers aren't as good as Hibbert or even project out to be as good as Hibbert, but he would also cost a lot less. I'm not saying to pick up Ian and let Hibbert go, I'm just saying there are other options.

[Gremz]

Hibbert and Hill will stay. Sucks that an extension for both couldn't be worked out, but I'm about 95% sure they'll both be on the roster next year.

[jowglenn]

I'm all for S&Ting Hibbert if it will get us a real impact player, preferably a PG (like Rondo, or Deron Williams) or someone like Josh Smith.

Fact is, there are a lot of good big man options out there in FA and via trade this upcoming summer. Hibbert is an asset, and if we could turn him into something, and then sign a pretty decent center(s) for way less cash, it's probably a good idea.

Like, trade Hibbert/Collison/1st for Rondo, and then sign Kaman and some backup.

[Boneman2]

^^ If we S&T Hibbert, I am pretty certain we can't add more players to the deal.

We had more flexibility before the deadline.

Geroge Hill is nice, but we cannot even come close to reaching his demands of 7.5/per. Now if Larry feels Hill will eventually start at pg. then the salary makes sense, but not in his current role.

[Miller4ever]

I do not see Rondo as the missing piece for this team. I think he is the point guard version of Scottie Pippen. Would be nice, but I want to see what that 1st is and also Hibbert is so rare.

[pacers70]

I may be changing my stance on what the Pacers should do this off season.

I'm thinking they should resign Hibbert for 5 years at $55-60 million with the first year being $10 million.

Let all the other non guaranteed contracts walk. Try to sign Ray Allen for $8-10 million and 3-4 years. I know he is 37 but he is still playing 34 mpg and is effective. We can cut his minutes down to around 30 which should help him stay around for another 3-4 years. His presence, experience and clutch play can help the team. Let George come of the bench at SG and SF and play him around 30 mpg.

If we can not get Allen, then look at Nick Young. Option 3 should be Eric Gordon. Gordon would be option 1 but since he is injured all the time he is option 3 and I would not pay him as much as Allen or Young.

The idea is to get a stud or semi-stud at SG. Bring George off the bench for 28-30 mpg at SG and SF until Granger's contract expires. You can then analyze what to do at that time.

Draft a PG with some size to back up Collison. Sign a cheap big man to back up Hibbert.

Or draft a big man to back up Hibbert and sign a cheap PG to back up Collison.

[8305]

I think the reason Hibbert and HIll weren't extended was to create a window of opportunity to persue a high impact free agent. Pacers could in theory thrown near max money at a free agent, get him signed and then resign Hill and Hibbert. It would take us over the cap but you've still got the range between the cap and the luxury tax threshold and the Pacers have in the past been fine with residing at that salary amount. This window of time (and I don't anticipate it being very long, probably a week or so) is a once in a rebuilding cycle opportunity get an impact guy without giving up assets. Not saying we should overpay someone but, if you wanted to persue a Steve Nash or Deron Williams the option exists.

[Wizop]

don't know about Hill but the reason Hibbert wasn't extended was that his agent convinced him not to sign an extension but to wait to see what he was offered when he becomes a free agent.

[8305]

That strategy may have had more to do with HIll not being extended than Hibbert. But, had they both been extended at say 12 mil for Hibbert and 6 mil for Hill the Pacer's would have been 6 to 8 mil under the salary cap. That wouldn't have been enough room to take advantage of a opportunity to get an elite or near elite guy. Not saying that guy will be there or that he should be persued, just that without Hill and Hibbert extended the Pacers have more options. And, they can always match whatever offer comes down the road for our guys.