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2012 NBA Draft - Part II

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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#601 » by doclinkin » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:26 am

theboomking wrote:How do you guys feel about Royce White and Patric Young? Young will probably be available later and could be another bully inside. I think he has Kendrick Perkins potential. What is Royce White's NBA position?


Royce White is a power forward in the NBA. Beast strong, good rebounding, room to get even more powerful given access to big league training. Long arms, good standing reach and max lift. He looks lethargic at times but is currently carrying a bit of bodyfat, in large part due to his anxiety issues that prevent him from over-exerting. The question is whether this emotional disability can be managed, will it level off with maturity and time or will it increase under the pressure of big league expectations and large dollar contracts.

To me though he's definitely among the top 5 most talented players in the NCAA. HIs offensive numbers suffer somewhat in the Cyclones' system (and his turnovers look high) in large part because he has no quality ballhandlers on the perimeter to forcefeed him on the blocks. Hoiberg needs his creativity in the highpost to initiate any sort of offense. But he has a pro low-post game he shows when given a chance to challenge big time opponents. And on defense he's solid, makes great plays, very smart, takes responsibility, and is way tough to move once he establishes position.

I'd love to see him on the Wizards-- though I expect we'd be torched yet again in the national media as a laughingstock. As of 2 weeks ago his value-for-pick was low. After this tourney though he'll likely climb enough to consider coming out this year. I know he's got some hardship issues on the one hand, on the other hand his anxiety issues etc and the likelihood of bettering his draft position might mesh to keep him in school another year. He's an unusual cat. Smart, iconoclastic, unpredictable.

Unlike other knuckleheads this one is a competitor. If you follow his twitter feed he seems pretty focused on defeating the opponent, seeking whatever motivation can be given to fire himself up to face them. I expect this sort of mindset will only help him handle his emotional issues. Personally I like the kid. A team with a good foundation gets a major steal if they land him late. Teams in turmoil, maybe, not so much. Here? I think we've gotten smarter, calmer, more focused, I think he might thrive here -- though our coaching situation would ultimately go a long way towards determining that.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#602 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:15 am

Can't say I really understand how and why. What fascinates me is that Ford, polling GM's, said he was in the 6-10 range (maybe 8-12, memory is a little fuzzy). I can only imagine he's upped his value with how he's played since the beginning of February. It's utterly baffling to me that GM's would rank Barnes ahead of Beal. Baffling.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#603 » by tontoz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 am

theboomking wrote:I feel like you are watching a different guy if you think Barnes looks clumsy. Barnes has great body control. It is one of his best traits. I agree about his lack of ability in driving and ball handling.




I said he looks clumsy taking it to the basket, not clumsy overall. If there is anyone in his way he will throw up some pretty awkward shots that have no chance of going in. He seems to lose his balance pretty easily.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#604 » by hegotgame132 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:33 am

Seems like Jeremy Lamb and John Henson are slipping a little. I'd love to maybe trade Vesely or possibly a protected future first and get back in the mid first round for one of those two. We could use some of their length, athleticism and bball iq.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#605 » by DCZards » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:45 pm

The Consiglieri wrote: Beal needs help with nothing, the big problem at Florida appears to have been integrating him into the system. It doesnt appear to be a big problem anymore, and Beal outproduces Barnes on seemingly every measurable other than point production and he's closing in on him there. If you like Barnes, you should love Beal because he basically combines all the assets of MKG (Mental Makeup, BBIQ and associated intangibles, all around game markers (rebounding, assists, defense), and all the assets of Barnes (spot up shooting, range, and while not the efficiency of Barnes, he's already getting there, and it was considered one of his assets coming out of High School). 2.


Got to admit that I haven't seen a lot of Beal or Florida so it's hard for me to judge him. But if Beal has the skills/IQ/intangibles that you claim he has, I could see myself liking him as much (or more) than I like Barnes. I'd just like to see the Zards draft a wing player who can shoot, rather than a low-post player like T. Rob or MKG, who I expect to turn out to be more of a PF than a SF. Nothing against either T.Rob or MKG, but I don't know if either of them is an elite enough talent to take over an equally talented player who fills a critical need, such as Barnes or Beal.

I'm going to check Beal out this week when Florida plays Marquette.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#606 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:01 pm

doclinkin wrote:
theboomking wrote:How do you guys feel about Royce White and Patric Young? Young will probably be available later and could be another bully inside. I think he has Kendrick Perkins potential. What is Royce White's NBA position?


Royce White is a power forward in the NBA. Beast strong, good rebounding, room to get even more powerful given access to big league training. Long arms, good standing reach and max lift. He looks lethargic at times but is currently carrying a bit of bodyfat, in large part due to his anxiety issues that prevent him from over-exerting. The question is whether this emotional disability can be managed, will it level off with maturity and time or will it increase under the pressure of big league expectations and large dollar contracts.

To me though he's definitely among the top 5 most talented players in the NCAA. HIs offensive numbers suffer somewhat in the Cyclones' system (and his turnovers look high) in large part because he has no quality ballhandlers on the perimeter to forcefeed him on the blocks. Hoiberg needs his creativity in the highpost to initiate any sort of offense. But he has a pro low-post game he shows when given a chance to challenge big time opponents. And on defense he's solid, makes great plays, very smart, takes responsibility, and is way tough to move once he establishes position.

I'd love to see him on the Wizards-- though I expect we'd be torched yet again in the national media as a laughingstock. As of 2 weeks ago his value-for-pick was low. After this tourney though he'll likely climb enough to consider coming out this year. I know he's got some hardship issues on the one hand, on the other hand his anxiety issues etc and the likelihood of bettering his draft position might mesh to keep him in school another year. He's an unusual cat. Smart, iconoclastic, unpredictable.

Unlike other knuckleheads this one is a competitor. If you follow his twitter feed he seems pretty focused on defeating the opponent, seeking whatever motivation can be given to fire himself up to face them. I expect this sort of mindset will only help him handle his emotional issues. Personally I like the kid. A team with a good foundation gets a major steal if they land him late. Teams in turmoil, maybe, not so much. Here? I think we've gotten smarter, calmer, more focused, I think he might thrive here -- though our coaching situation would ultimately go a long way towards determining that.

He reminds me of another ex-George Karl player - Anthony Mason - though Mason had more of a body-builder build and seemed less team-oriented. Size/power and skills at the PF position were similar - they were both non-standard issue PF's. I think White stands a hair over 6'7, and he's strictly an inside scorer right now - so he's not going to go high. He might be better served staying in school for another year - work on his jump shot - and prove he's got his head on straight. Like I said a month or so about him - watching him, it seems like he has great intangibles, but he's got to prove that over a longer period to convince people.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#607 » by closg00 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:20 pm

No-reason White can't take his place among NBA under-sized PF's: Milsap, Booker, Maxiell, Samuels, and others. All of these guys are getting playing time.

Does anyone have his neasurables handy? He appears to be a smart rebounder and knows how to play. Dude really put himself on the radar holding his own against Davis. Seemed like a real winner.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#608 » by thinker07 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:51 pm

Royce White is a total red flag player. He may very well be an amazing talent but his emotional/psychological/anxiety issues make him too big a risk for the Wiz who have spent so much time and effort trying to rid the roster of "iffy" character/ethic/team players.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#609 » by doclinkin » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:04 pm

Source: Iowa State's Royce White headed to NBA

By Jeff Goodman | College Basketball Insider

Royce White is NBA-bound.

Sources close to White told CBSSports.com that Iowa State's versatile 6-foot-7, 270-pound forward has signed with an agent.

An official announcement is expected on Wednesday.

White, who didn't play his freshman season at Minnesota due to legal issues and sat out in 2010-11 after transferring to Iowa State, proved he was one of the most multidimensional players in the country.

White averaged 13.4 points, 9.3 rebounds, 5.0 assists this past season and was terrific in the Cyclones' loss to Kentucky in the NCAA tournament this past weekend. He finished with 23 points, grabbed nine rebounds and had four assists in the 87-71 loss.

White, according to several NBA executives, has likely worked his way into the first round of June's NBA Draft.


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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#610 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:39 pm

I heard something about the NBA not letting college players "test the waters" anymore - once they enter the draft; they're in. White might be making a mistake - in that he could go much lower in this year's draft than he would have gone in next year's. Despite having very interesting potential, I could see him slipping to the Wiz 2nd round pick.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#611 » by Nivek » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:49 pm

I'd love to see the NBA and NCAA do something that provides clarity, helps the game, and actually makes sense when it comes to kids declaring for the draft. This one-and-done thing is asinine. What I'd like to see is a system similar to baseball's. If a kid wants to turn pro straight from high school -- let him. The ones likely to enter the draft as HS seniors will come from the one-and-done pool anyway. Kids who opt to go to college wait until after their junior year to enter the draft.

The NBA should be in favor of this because (if the GMs have a lick of sense) it'll reduce risk in the draft. Three years in college should be plenty of time to see what guys can do and project them to the NBA. Plus, NBA teams would get the benefit of the NCAA tourney star-making machine.

The NCAA should favor this because the one-and-done would be over. Coaches would have kids for at least 3 years and they could build there teams sensibly.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#612 » by dobrojim » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:58 pm

You make a good case but I might draw the line at forcing only 2 years
of college rather than 3.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#613 » by tontoz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:13 pm

The whole reason for the one and done rule was to prevent GM's from making expensive mistakes drafting HS kids. Why would they change that? It would have to be collectively bargained and i don't see any reason for either side to push for allowing HS kids to be drafted.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#614 » by Nivek » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm

tontoz wrote:The whole reason for the one and done rule was to prevent GM's from making expensive mistakes drafting HS kids. Why would they change that? It would have to be collectively bargained and i don't see any reason for either side to push for allowing HS kids to be drafted.


I know that was the reasoning, but it was bad reasoning. Many of the high schoolers turned out to be good (or better) professionals. There were busts, but there are busts who spend time in college. Picking elite high school players is actually a decent bet. GMs and owners didn't want to blamed for their bad judgement -- much better to pin it on the unpredictability of youth.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#615 » by tontoz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:47 pm

Nivek wrote:
tontoz wrote:The whole reason for the one and done rule was to prevent GM's from making expensive mistakes drafting HS kids. Why would they change that? It would have to be collectively bargained and i don't see any reason for either side to push for allowing HS kids to be drafted.


I know that was the reasoning, but it was bad reasoning. Many of the high schoolers turned out to be good (or better) professionals. There were busts, but there are busts who spend time in college. Picking elite high school players is actually a decent bet. GMs and owners didn't want to blamed for their bad judgement -- much better to pin it on the unpredictability of youth.



It is the same story as the max salary rule. GMs/owners are always going to look for a way to protect themselves from.... themselves.

Management isn't going to push for HS kids to be drafted. The players sure won't push for it either since the HS kids will be taking some of their jobs.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#616 » by Rafael122 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:53 pm

Couple of things, David Thorpe did an NBA Re-Draft from last year's draft and he would have had us taking Kawhi Leonard at #6, and Marcus Morris at #18.

Chad Ford has a chat today, question on Barnes:

Brian (Seattle)

Why is Barnes not rated higher by GMs? Seems to have everything except ability to create offense off the dribble. Other than that would be an ideal 3, and there are not many of those in the NBA right now.
Chad Ford (1:35 PM)

GMs would like their threes to create offense off the dribble and be more than just a jump shooter. His lack of assists and rebounding for his size also are red flags. No one questions his ability to be a shooter/scorer at the next level. But I think they're wishing he could do a bit more than that.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#617 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:53 pm

I think the solution would be for NBA teams to have the option of sending a player to the D-League for a season and postpone the start of his Rookie Scale Contract in the process. If you are a good enough player coming out of high school to earn NBA minutes, then great, go pro. There's no reason for Lebron James to play a year in college. But if you are a marginal prospect with a raw game, when you go pro, your team will probably stick you in the D-League for a season and you'll only earn a $35,000 for that year (or whatever they make). After you play a season in the D-League and become NBA ready, you then start Year 1 of your 4-year Rookie Scale Contract.

I'd even give teams the option to place a player in the D-League for 2 seasons, but they'd have to earn 1st season Rookie Scale money in their second year. (They then go pro and play 4 more seasons under the rookie scale.)

The whole goal here is to keep the NBA from having to be a developmental league where they're forced to pay unprepared players millions of dollars only to have them become worthwhile NBA players when their rookie contract expires (cough McGee cough). If you're not ready to play, don't bother declaring.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#618 » by tontoz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Couple of things, David Thorpe did an NBA Re-Draft from last year's draft and he would have had us taking Kawhi Leonard at #6, and Marcus Morris at #18.

Chad Ford has a chat today, question on Barnes:

Brian (Seattle)

Why is Barnes not rated higher by GMs? Seems to have everything except ability to create offense off the dribble. Other than that would be an ideal 3, and there are not many of those in the NBA right now.
Chad Ford (1:35 PM)

GMs would like their threes to create offense off the dribble and be more than just a jump shooter. His lack of assists and rebounding for his size also are red flags. No one questions his ability to be a shooter/scorer at the next level. But I think they're wishing he could do a bit more than that.



I am not too concerned about the rebounding given that he plays with Henson/Zeller. His inability to drive and finish is definitely a problem.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#619 » by fishercob » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:36 pm

Color me concerned.

There are lotto/draft scenarios that could play out very poorly for us.

For one, I think Beal's stock is going to continue to rise. I can see him going third overall. If Calipari doesn't successfully talk sense into MKG and he follows through on his stated goal on staying another year in college, Beal could go #2.

I really want to come out of this draft with Davis, MKG or Beal.

Let's hope that any team that picks in front of us prefers bigs to wings.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft - Part II 

Post#620 » by nate33 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:42 pm

fishercob wrote:Color me concerned.

There are lotto/draft scenarios that could play out very poorly for us.

For one, I think Beal's stock is going to continue to rise. I can see him going third overall. If Calipari doesn't successfully talk sense into MKG and he follows through on his stated goal on staying another year in college, Beal could go #2.

I really want to come out of this draft with Davis, MKG or Beal.

Let's hope that any team that picks in front of us prefers bigs to wings.

Nah, there's no chance Beal goes ahead of Thomas Robinson. #3 is a possibility if MKG doesn't declare.

That said, the draft board will probably change a fair amount once we get into the private workouts and measurements. Too many GM's foolishly weigh the measurements ahead of actual on the court performance. Beal probably won't measure out that well, which could keep his stock down.

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