Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

phailing101 · Post #621 » by **phailing101** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:22 pm

Lawnmower Man wrote:Not sure if this was brought up, but has anyone seen NBADRAFT.net's latest mock draft update?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

It has the Raptors selecting the following players with their 1st round pick and two 2nd rounders:

5. Andre Drummond
35. Quincy Miller
52. Myck Kabongo

Can someone say DREAM COME TRUE? LOL.

Dr Positivity · Post #622 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:27 pm

I would hate that draft, lol. Miller and Kabongo at those spots is real good value, but screw taking Andre Drummond.

Anyways, I'm really selling myself on the idea of a Thomas Robinson pick at 2 or 3. One thing this video shows is decent ballhandling skills for a big man. That's huge for his upside because he's definitely not a post player in the NBA. I'm selling myself on his face-up offensive potential due to his combination of power around the rim, explosiveness and good ballhandling ability. I think he could be a tough matchup offensively, especially if his jumper comes along.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDHhnNDEBw&feature=related[/youtube]

I'm loving the idea of how rebound dominant, high energy and tough a Robinson/JVal frontcourt coudl be long term

phailing101 · Post #623 » by **phailing101** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:32 pm

Robinson has a lot of Bosh in him, without the height advantage. He's obviously quite a bit bigger at this stage of his life though.

I would rather take Drummond over him and see what he turns out to be.

That being said, I'm not confident he'll even come out.

thunderforce · Post #624 » by **thunderforce** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:37 pm

I wouldn't touch Drummond with a ten foot pole . I am sure that BC knows a top 5 pick can't be just wasted or thrown away you have to get a star or super star and if you pick right with a top 5 pick the chances are good . If I wanted to draft only on potential do it with a second round pick .

thunderforce · Post #625 » by **thunderforce** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:40 pm

I am not saying Drummond will be crap but there are too many Oden's and Thabeet's out there to risk a top 5 pick on a guy like that .

Dr Positivity · Post #626 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:44 pm

Here's the thing. Drummond is bigger and more explosive than Robinson, but Robinson is still going to be a hell lot to handle in those areas. He's got that compact strength, it can be more difficult to deal with a guy who's in that 6'8 body with a low center of gravity than the nearly 7 foot one

That's not considering the fact that by way of mentality and aggressiveness, Robinsons USES his physical tools way way way more than Drummond does offensively. So now you have to wonder if there's a difference at all at the next level offensively in terms of the utility of their physical talent. Defensively Drummond has shotblocking potential that Robinson will never touch. But Drummond to me looks like a Javale, Deandre type of shotblocker. Meaning he gets the stats, but he leaves his position a lot and bites on fakes all the time to do it. +/- stats indicate those guys are actually bad defensively, and it makes sense to me why. Getting a block every once in a way isn't worth the missed rotations and free layups when you miss. It also usually hurts rebounding too as their man is open and not blocked out on those plays. Having smart and on point rotations even if it's on the ground, has more value than their chicken with its head cut off defense leading to 2-3 blocks a game. Strong defense, especially post handcheck, is all about the everyone in the system holding their fort while the rotations happen, all 5 players acting as one unit, with everyone being focused enough to read the play. A player like Drummond despite his physical tools, can ruin defenisve plays by having a low defensive IQ, wanting the block too much and jumping out of position/leaving his teammates out to dry, or simply being unmotivated on that end.

Then Robinson has more rebounding instincts, the difference between 11.8rpg and 7.6 comes down to more than just playing hard. He has better offensive instincts clearly, he understands how to play off the ball and in a catch and strike way, to see what his teammates are doing. He has much better hands and shooting fundamentals. He's clearly a better ballhandler. He has a better attitude and work ethic, which is key for us with all the douchbag enigmas we've gone through.

I don't think Drummond over Robinson would be a smart choice at all from our position. I don't see Drummond's athletic marginal utilty as high over TRob's, considering TRob is still a fantastically talented physical force and plays bigger than his size compared to Drummond's smaller, and TRob's basketball IQ and skill, while not exemplary, is still miles ahead of Drummond's. Robinson is going to go higher than Drummond in this draft and IMO it's absolutely the right choice.

StMikes31 · Post #627 » by **StMikes31** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:54 pm

I just don't see the Raps taking another PF unless it's Davis. I mean if they go with a Robinson, they would have to trade one of Ed davis or Amir Johnson and I don't think that gets you anything crazy. Raps would still be in the same situation, that's why I think if Davis, MKG, and Barnes are gone the pick is traded.

ballislife · Post #628 » by **ballislife** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:58 pm

StMikes31 wrote:I just don't see the Raps taking another PF unless it's Davis. I mean if they go with a Robinson, they would have to trade one of Ed davis or Amir Johnson and I don't think that gets you anything crazy. Raps would still be in the same situation, that's why I think if Davis, MKG, and Barnes are gone the pick is traded.

I agree. If we're in a position where the best possible guy is a PF, I see BC trading the pick with the capspace he just got for an established relatively young player that a team is trying to unload. If Barnes or MKG are on the board, we're probably going to take them.

StMikes31 · Post #629 » by **StMikes31** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:02 pm

ballislife wrote:
StMikes31 wrote:I just don't see the Raps taking another PF unless it's Davis. I mean if they go with a Robinson, they would have to trade one of Ed davis or Amir Johnson and I don't think that gets you anything crazy. Raps would still be in the same situation, that's why I think if Davis, MKG, and Barnes are gone the pick is traded.

I agree. If we're in a position where the best possible guy is a PF, I see BC trading the pick with the capspace he just got for an established relatively young player that a team is trying to unload. If Barnes or MKG are on the board, we're probably going to take them.

+1

ATLTimekeeper · Post #630 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:03 pm

I don't really see Drummond as a lesser project than, say, Biyombo, only AD has a hell of a lot more potential just based on size alone. I'd probably pass on him just because of the obvious risk, but it would be difficult. I'm usually more optimistic about guys that have been highly ranked for a few years.

dTox · Post #631 » by **dTox** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Oden and Thabeet should not be mentioned in the same sentence along with Oden and Drummond, unlike the other two Oden was a bonafied prospect who was very advanced for his age and development and was the best player on his team that had a successful NCAA tourny.

Dr Positivity · Post #632 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:06 pm

Biyombo was getting raves for his effort level and basketball IQ in Spain, apparantely he understood the game enough to discuss plays and strategy with the coach and to help teammates understand. I do think there was enough risk with BB a year ago to compare him to Drummond - But if 2011 Biyombo was in this draft he likely goes non lotto and a lot behind Thomas Robinson

phailing101 · Post #633 » by **phailing101** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:17 pm

We'll have to wait to hear Robinson's height/reach/length but 6'8 is simply way too undersized for the NBA. There have been a lot of skilled short big men who end up as bench players and promptly out of the NBA in the past.

He will struggle to finish around the basket and may be a liability on defense.

That being said, I love his game. He plays with great intensity and always looks to attack. Plus he has a nice jumper from 15.

Post #634 » by **Worm Guts** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Kevin Love and Blake Griffin are both around 6'8 barefoot.

Dr Positivity · Post #635 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:32 pm

He measured 6'10 in shoes with a 7'1 wingspan at the Amare Stoudemire skills academy apparantely. Definitely seems like he's shorter, but even if he is, hard to imagine him falling behind 6'9. I could see him being around Tristan Thompson who measured 6'8.75. Horford is 6'9.75.

I'm not hugely concerned about Robinson's size because I feel he will play above the rim in the NBA, and has as much strength as bigger players. Those are the two things undersized players struggle with.

McFurious1 · Post #636 » by **McFurious1** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:49 pm

I haven't watch too much of Robinson, but I just watched some of his highlights and the man is a beast. Trade Bargnani for Jennings. You then can ship out one of Davis and Amir to even out the roster. We must take BPA.

StMikes31 · Post #637 » by **StMikes31** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:55 pm

McFurious1 wrote:I haven't watch too much of Robinson, but I just watched some of his highlights and the man is a beast. Trade Bargnani for Jennings. You then can ship out one of Davis and Amir to even out the roster. We must take BPA.

2 unproven guys starting?? You think this year was bad, just wait.

Rapsfan07 · Post #638 » by **Rapsfan07** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Damn it would be hard to pass on Drummond...

Maybe not right now Val and Drummond would work but I think they have the potential to be an elite frontcourt in the future. Val would take time to develop and adjust anyways so If we drop or something and Drummond's on the board, I think I'd take him and get a big man coach to work with him day and night. Drummond could play C and Val could play PF.

I'm not quite sold on Robinson to be honest...I wonder mostly how much of that will he be able to do in the NBA.

Anyway, I sure hope BC makes a move for Miller. It would make sense to do so if Barnes is off the board and I'm not high on Gilchrist. Never really have been from the getgo. Looks a little too much like James Johnson for me.

McFurious1 · Post #639 » by **McFurious1** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:03 pm

StMikes31 wrote:
McFurious1 wrote:I haven't watch too much of Robinson, but I just watched some of his highlights and the man is a beast. Trade Bargnani for Jennings. You then can ship out one of Davis and Amir to even out the roster. We must take BPA.

2 unproven guys starting?? You think this year was bad, just wait.

Everyone at one point was a rookie everyone was "unproven".

elmer_yuck · Post #640 » by **elmer_yuck** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:04 pm

phailing101 wrote:We'll have to wait to hear Robinson's height/reach/length but 6'8 is simply way too undersized for the NBA. There have been a lot of skilled short big men who end up as bench players and promptly out of the NBA in the past.

He will struggle to finish around the basket and may be a liability on defense.

That being said, I love his game. He plays with great intensity and always looks to attack. Plus he has a nice jumper from 15.

People always say this nonsense about 6'8" PFs.
Apparently 6'9" is ok, but 6'8" is undersized.

Who do you want the Raptors to select in the 2012 NBA draft?