Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[veji1]

I think the key element in this trade regarding long term team potential is that suddenly FAs will look at the Wiz and see a young team, with flaws for sure, but that looks like a team and plays like one, with a potentially positive trajectory. Add a good pick and guys like Batum might think "if they offer me 40/5, I will sign, i would make a good combo with Wall and with Nene + the draft pick that is a promising team", while until the trade all those potential FAs would think "the WIZ ? hell no, this is not a team, but a joke, a bunch of young guys jumping up and down with no idea of what Basketball is, I a am not going to bury my carreer there..."

At some point a team cannot keep rebuilding with youth and has to start mixing it up with more experienced players and good pros. It was time for the Wiz to do this, and their good play in the last 3rd of the season might play a decisive role in convincing FAs that this team has changed. Whether the McGee/Nene was the best way to achieve this is open to discussion, but it was time to jump the boat and give "phase 2" of the building of the team a try... You can't stay stuck on phase 1 for 3 or 4 years, because then your young players don't improve, worse they regress, want to leave and the image of the team becomes stained with no FA wanting to sign there..

[MDStar]

In my opinion, a proven commodity today is worth more than the hope of one tomorrow.

By this standard, the Wizards should trade Wall and their 1st round pick for Duncan and Ginobili. Duncan and Ginobili are proven commodities, whereas Wall and the 1st round pick still have a lot of development to do. Shoot, we don't even know who that 1st round pick is going to be. Talk about "hope."

Point taken. However, that type of trade wasn't in the spirit of my comment but I understand where you were going with it.

In regards to Nene, when I say proven commodity I'm looking at stuff like this:

2010-2011 - 20.49 Per (5th best among centers)
2009-2010 - 18.95 Per (11th best among centers)
2008-2009 - 18.83 Per (8th best among center)

And more specifically, my post was more about the contradiction of assumptions. Either way, it really doesn't matter, as we still have enough cap room to sign almost any free-agent we want.

I guess I'm just not in agreement with the premise that we won't be good enough to compete for 3 years and by then Nene will be "done". If (and not a big if) Nene plays at his level next year and Wall takes another step to becoming a star and we add a player like Ryan Anderson to play PF. Why can't we be good with that core? That would be 3 players in the top 10 of there respective positions, with a top 5 draft pick and a handful of young but talented players (Booker, SIngleton, Seraphin, Vesley) who should make some improvement. I just don't think that the team is setup as bad as some nor that the move was shortsighted and Grunfeldian. I'm really looking forward to next year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You get it!

Wizard fans let emotional reactions fuel their decision making. They were so furious with Javale. They couldn't stand the idea of resigning Javale. They also didn't want to lose him for nothing. Last, they ASSUMED no FA would sign in DC.

Despite all those valid concerns, they missed the fact that EG was making a classic, EG trade. Tie up much cap space on an older player, and one with an injury history. Yeah, it looks good in the short run, but... The better move might have been to wait. Let McGee walk, if someone overbids. Sign a Batum or Anderson or Ilyasova-- OR 2 -- with the cap space.

eathb_au, I can't understand why that wasn't obvious to more fans but I know they're going to see it soon.

Correct me if i'm but isn't the point you've made an assumption as well? There's no reason to think that any of those guys, especially not 2 of them together, will sign with us in the off-season. Not saying they won't but I believe it to be unlikely.

I just don't get how you can say that some of us don't get it because we make an assumption about the prospects of our future but then in the same post, use an assumption to justify why we're wrong for thinking that.

In my opinion, a proven commodity today is worth more than the hope of one tomorrow.

I made an assumption, too. Good catch, MDStar.

Where you and I disagree is with the proven commodity part.

Proven means veteran to some. Proven to me is actual productivity.

To trade away a guy like Javale at a time when people are worried about being called a laughing stock, and when Pam McGee has criticized the organization made me really upset. Proven veteran Nene proved to miss a lot of games in Denver. He played with Kenyon Martin and Bird Anderson, with Carmelo scoring a ton; and Nene proved to be what? Worth more than Kevin Love's deal?

What I do is look at the bigger picture. Javale just turned 24. He has played with a MISERABLE organization. Yet, in terms of productivity, he's among league leaders in blocks, field goal percentage, and offensive rebound percentage. Not too many players can give you 12 points, 10 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks but McGee does that in under 30 minutes.

But what has he proven? That he is a low IQ player who can make blooper reels. That he is HORRIBLE at pick and roll defense the way the Wizards played him. He's proven to be a guy who has an alter ego and sense of humor that grates a lot of people. Yet, none of that stops what is in bold print: actual production. Also, what McGee proved was situational. He was with the Wizards under Wittman, who played certain lineups at a time when the team was young and lacking talent. Situations change when a player is traded or new coaching and/or teammates are acquired.

This is what Tyson Chandler had "proven" at age 23-24:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2006.html

In the 2006 playoffs (when Tyson was the age Javale is now) Chandler averaged 1.8 points, 4.5 rebounds and nothing else in 17.3 minutes over 6 games.

Chandler's PER was 12.2

After that, the Bulls traded Tyson Chandler to New Orleans for a proven veteran. PJ Brown (and also, JR Smith)

July 14, 2006: Traded by the Chicago Bulls to the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith.

MDStar, I bet the Bulls' GM thought like you. The proven commodity, PJ Brown had been in many playoff wars, similar to Nene.

In retrospect, Tyson Chandler for PJ Brown was the very same kind of deal Ernie Grunfeld just did trading Javale McGee for Nene. ONLY, McGee's PER is 19--way higher than Chandler's was. McGee is arguably a better player at the age of 24 than Tyson Chandler was. ALSO, PJ Brown didn't cost nearly as much as Nene.

I don't associate "proven" with "veteran". I prefer to look at advanced metrics.

McGee is way better than the perception and Nene is not as good as perceived (by most) if you take actual production into account. For those who say certain things don't show up in box scores, I say nerdnumbers.com takes those things into account. Use that and a lot of other metrics.

Don't go by words like "proven".

Nene is a good player, don't get me wrong. He plays the right way. He's got experience and a good spirit about him. My point is if you think of McGee as an asset and you take the emotions and agendas out of it, IMO Ted should have fired Ernie and made Sam Cassell the coach before those two jettisoned McGee in the deal they made.

Every one of you who thinks I have been wrong about McGee just remember the Tyson Chandler/PJ Brown deal and watch McGee over the next few seasons.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

MDStar, McGee was the hope IMO.

[tontoz]

Before the trade the Wizards were giving up 102.3 ppg. In the 5 games without McGee (only 2 of which Nene has played in) the Wizards are giving up 92.4 ppg. Small sample size obviously but it is clear the other teams no longer get a free pass to the basket on a pick and roll.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Before the trade the Wizards were giving up 102.3 ppg. In the 5 games without McGee (only 2 of which Nene has played in) the Wizards are giving up 92.4 ppg. Small sample size obviously but it is clear the other teams no longer get a free pass to the basket on a pick and roll.

Booker and Seraphin, plus Nene with Singleton really coming into his own.

McGee's PnR defense was atrocious.

It is paradoxical that the team is better without Javale. Yet, the trade IMO will bite the Wizards.

[tontoz]

Before the trade the Wizards were giving up 102.3 ppg. In the 5 games without McGee (only 2 of which Nene has played in) the Wizards are giving up 92.4 ppg. Small sample size obviously but it is clear the other teams no longer get a free pass to the basket on a pick and roll.

Booker and Seraphin, plus Nene with Singleton really coming into his own.

McGee's PnR defense was atrocious.

It is paradoxical that the team is better without Javale. Yet, the trade IMO will bite the Wizards.

The size of Nene's contract could definitely bite them. However i believe getting rid of McGee definitely won't.

[DCZards]

Nene is a good player, don't get me wrong. He plays the right way. He's got experience and a good spirit about him. My point is if you think of McGee as an asset and you take the emotions and agendas out of it, IMO Ted should have fired Ernie and made Sam Cassell the coach before those two jettisoned McGee in the deal they made.

Every one of you who thinks I have been wrong about McGee just remember the Tyson Chandler/PJ Brown deal and watch McGee over the next few seasons.

This trade wasn't about who was younger and who had the better stats. It was about what player would make the Zards a better TEAM. Knowing how to "play the right way" is an important part of playing winning basketball.

The Zards needed mature, veteran leadership as much or more than it needed Nene's production. You get poise, leadership and maturity with Nene. You get just the opposite from McGee. I believe Nene has at least 3-4 solid years left in him. I personally hope that McGee (and Nick) go on to have great careers. But that still won't change my mind about the trade for Nene and how much it helps the Wizards....if only for the short term.

ccj, I don't think many posters here think you're wrong about McGee's immense potential. But, like me, they probably think you're wrong about Javele's value to the Zards.

As for PJ Brown, I've always liked him. While he may not have as "productive" a career as McGee, Brown was a smart, savvy player who has a championship ring with the Celtics, where he was a significant contibutor to the 2008 championship.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nene is a good player, don't get me wrong. He plays the right way. He's got experience and a good spirit about him. My point is if you think of McGee as an asset and you take the emotions and agendas out of it, IMO Ted should have fired Ernie and made Sam Cassell the coach before those two jettisoned McGee in the deal they made.

Every one of you who thinks I have been wrong about McGee just remember the Tyson Chandler/PJ Brown deal and watch McGee over the next few seasons.

This trade wasn't about who was younger and who had the better stats. It was about what player would make the Zards a better TEAM. Knowing how to "play the right way" an important element of winning, imo.

The Zards needed mature, veteran leadership as much or more than it needed Nene's production. You get poise, leadership and maturity with Nene. You get just the opposite from McGee. I believe Nene has at least 3-4 solid years left in him. I personally hope that McGee (and Nick) go on to have great careers. But that still won't change my mind about the trade for Nene and how much it helps the Wizards....if only for the short term.

ccj, I don't think many posters here think you're wrong about McGee's immense potential. But they probably think you're wrong about Javele's value to the Zards.

As for PJ Brown. I've always liked him. While he may not have as "productive" a career as McGee, Brown was a smart, savvy player who has championship ring with the Celtics, where he was a significant contibutor to the Celts 2008 championship.

I bet Nene does have 3-4 good years left and he will provide mature, veteran leadership.

Javale's value to the Wizards should have been as a restricted free agent. Having the right of first refusal means the Wizards could have simply waited to see who offered what, and just how badly they wanted McGee. Washington could have matched or even signed-and-traded McGee. (I think, but don't know CBA all that well). Washington had more options than the trade deadline deal. Even losing McGee for nothing and pursuing guys like Asik might have been better. Forget the most-prized FAs, there are a ton of guys like Ray Allen, Billups, Nash, who are unrestricted this summer. I could think of a lot of things besides this Nene deal.

What I think made the most sense was to just start Seraphin at C and sit McGee if his PnR defense was such a travesty. PLAY SERAPHIN AND TANK AT THE SAME TIME--DO NOT WORRY ABOUT PLAYING THE WRONG WAY THIS SEASON. To me, it was really dumb to get Nene and possibly hurt the tank effort.

Nene will help and he HAS MADE THE WIZARDS BETTER, already. I just don't think he was the only option. You really don't know what will go down this season. Tying up cap space on Nene isn't what they should have done. Before the deal I thought at least the Wizards have NOT done the wrong thing. I noticed the contracts of Nene and Afflalo and thought Denver's GM was tripping. Nene misses games, big time.

Any way, DCZ, it's done now and I love watching Nene play. His first game was great. Love his passing and unselfishness. He definitely is here to give his all. I hope he turns the team around.

[DCZards]

Javale's value to the Wizards should have been as a restricted free agent. Having the right of first refusal means the Wizards could have simply waited to see who offered what, and just how badly they wanted McGee. Washington could have matched or even signed-and-traded McGee. (I think, but don't know CBA all that well). Washington had more options than the trade deadline deal. Even losing McGee for nothing and pursuing guys like Asik might have been better. Forget the most-prized FAs, there are a ton of guys like Ray Allen, Billups, Nash, who are unrestricted this summer. I could think of a lot of things besides this Nene deal.

Nene will help and he HAS MADE THE WIZARDS BETTER, already. I just don't think he was the only option. You really don't know what will go down this season. Tying up cap space on Nene isn't what they should have done. Before the deal I thought at least the Wizards have NOT done the wrong thing. I noticed the contracts of Nene and Afflalo and thought Denver's GM was tripping. Nene misses games, big time.

I think EG and the Zards front office decided it was wiser to use some of that cap space to get an experienced, low-post player capable of being a team leader (Nene), rather than hold on to that money with the HOPE that they could sign such a player during the offseason. It's the old "bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush" thinking that I don't necessarily disagree with.

[youngthegiant]

i think you guys should draft a good pf or center. nene would serve as a good mentor.

[Zonkerbl]

A dollar spent in a trade is, on average, worth two dollars spend on free agency. I totally agree that if you have a type of player in mind you are going to get much better value for your money by acquiring the player via trade vs. via free agency.

So I totally get the reasoning -- if the player I want is available via trade, screw free agency.

Now, was Nene the right player/contract? Well, we'll see.

[tontoz]

i think you guys should draft a good pf or center. nene would serve as a good mentor.

We already have a center which may be better than McGee. Our pf Booker is also one of our best players.

Our weakness is at the 2/3.

[MDStar]

A dollar spent in a trade is, on average, worth two dollars spend on free agency. I totally agree that if you have a type of player in mind you are going to get much better value for your money by acquiring the player via trade vs. via free agency.

So I totally get the reasoning -- if the player I want is available via trade, screw free agency.

Now, was Nene the right player/contract? Well, we'll see.

Agreed Nate.

I just believe that letting McGee stay a wizard until the end of the year would have been a bad move and would have but the team in a no win situation.

If he signs the QO, sure financially we're better off but we still have McGee and everything that entails and it is obvious that management (like most of us) doesn't believe in him but because he's young and is talented, he would be the starting center for the Washington Wizards next season.

If he gets an offer that reasonable and signs. The we have to decide to match or not. The contract is reasonable but no one feels like we can be a "winning" team with him as one of our cornerstones, so what do we do? If we don't match, then all everyone will talk about is how we let a young, stud center, sign with someone else for money we could have easily paid. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

If he signs a ridiculous contract somewhere, while no one will blame the team for not matching but then the team is stuck with another glaring hole to fill. Not having a starting caliber center, when the initial priorities going into the off-season would be the wing positions. Again, no win and we'd be setting ourselves up for another losing, lottery bound season.

And sorry CCJ but the Chandler thing is not really flowing for me. The season before the trade, Brown was averaging 9pts and 7 rebs, with a per of 12.7 and was already 35 years old. So I can't really equate him and Nene being similar situations outside the fact that they were both veterans of the league.

[Induveca]

You know Induveca, I am real. I want to be a good Christian and treat people right. I feel better being meek and in the Word vs being of the world. At the same time, I've lived this life and I celebrate who I am. I can't fake the funk.

I could try and medicate more and be a real docile, cat.

Or, I could read the bible all day long. Maybe, I'd get to the point where I see a woman and not "lust in my heart". Maybe God will send this Proverbs 31 woman just for me, and she won't actually see just what she's getting into.

Or, I'll just deal with life. It's actually very entertaining. Drama. I'm actually lovin' this.

(Induveca, I still believe and need to really reflect and go back to what had me being likable and full of grace.)

No! I like the new personality....you have indeed been dead on usually with talent predictions. We've seen eye to eye many times (but I missed Brooks). I'll think of us lobbying for Faried when he does indeed get a 30/30 game in his career.

Keep being an ****, if anyone deserves an "I told you so!"....it's you my friend.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You know Induveca, I am real. I want to be a good Christian and treat people right. I feel better being meek and in the Word vs being of the world. At the same time, I've lived this life and I celebrate who I am. I can't fake the funk.

I could try and medicate more and be a real docile, cat.

Or, I could read the bible all day long. Maybe, I'd get to the point where I see a woman and not "lust in my heart". Maybe God will send this Proverbs 31 woman just for me, and she won't actually see just what she's getting into.

Or, I'll just deal with life. It's actually very entertaining. Drama. I'm actually lovin' this.

(Induveca, I still believe and need to really reflect and go back to what had me being likable and full of grace.)

No! I like the new personality....you have indeed been dead on usually with talent predictions. We've seen eye to eye many times (but I missed Brooks). I'll think of us lobbying for Faried when he does indeed get a 30/30 game in his career.

Keep being an ****, if anyone deserves an "I told you so!"....it's you my friend.

Thanks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And sorry CCJ but the Chandler thing is not really flowing for me. The season before the trade, Brown was averaging 9pts and 7 rebs, with a per of 12.7 and was already 35 years old. So I can't really equate him and Nene being similar situations outside the fact that they were both veterans of the league.

The idea is people gave up on Chandler when he was 23-24 also.

One year he wasn't playing much at all in the playoffs. Chandler played less than Mike Sweetney in the playoffs. He was then traded for an older player, PJ Brown.

Chandler went on to become the anchor of the Hornets playoff teams. Bounced around from Charlotte to Dallas, where he won a ring. Now, he is a Team USA guy who beat out McGee. (And to hear McGee haters talk, Javale is no good for it.??) Now, Chandler has a championship ring that the Mavs would NOT have without him. Now, Chandler is the key defensive guy on the Knicks.

I don't know any other way but to put this Barney simple: Javale is probably going to be better than Tyson Chandler is now, within 5 years. No. I think he'll be better next year, if he isn't already better at a lot of things.

McGee is a young guy and I am sure his best basketball is ahead of him.

Washington has made yet another HUGE blunder.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Chandler could actually play defense at 24. McGee can't. That's the difference. If your starting C can't play defense, the other stuff doesn't matter unless he's a big time scorer.

[Dat2U]

i think you guys should draft a good pf or center. nene would serve as a good mentor.

We already have a center which may be better than McGee. Our pf Booker is also one of our best players.

Our weakness is at the 2/3.

The fact that Booker is one of our best players is not praise of Booker but a damning indictment on our current roster. Booker is still likely a backup at best on most teams.

As far as Seraphin being better than McGee... I wouldn't go that far just yet. He's shown improvement but he's still a verifiable hack box.

We still need a starting PF or C IMO. It's still a huge priority if were planning on ever being serious contenders.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Chandler could actually play defense at 24. McGee can't. That's the difference. If your starting C can't play defense, the other stuff doesn't matter unless he's a big time scorer.

All the Wizards needed to do was play McGee with Seraphin--with Kevin playing PF on offense and C on defense.

Nene cannot defend the post better than Seraphin, IMO. If the Wizards had done due diligence, they would have known Nene prefers to play PF.

Washington never even explored all options. To say a C cannot play defense ignores the defense he did play last season. If you watched McGee on Denver, he played hellacious defense his first game.McGee can't stop physical guys who fly at him, and Javale's lateral movement is slow. However, he and Seraphin should have been tried. They could have dominated defensively and on the offensive glass.

Chaos, if you look up 3 years from now and McGee is on an NBA All-Defensive team, don't be too shocked. The best PF Javale played with on the Wizards was Trevor Booker. His guards didn't help him on defense.