Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[JamesNaismith]

I also find it weird how everyone (myself included) dismisses Lamb's performance in college as being poor. He still averaged close to 18 points.

Maybe its because our expectations of him are that high.

I said this about a hour ago in a thread discussing Lamb vs Beal in the Draft forum.

I think it really speaks volumes about how good Lamb is and can be when he is the TOP scoring wing prospect right now YET we are all saying he doesn't play aggressive enough. I said a while ago that I like JL as our pick but I won't lie I also had a hard time passing on Beal because he looks like a solid player as well.

maybe its our expectations? maybe its because beal plays with more energy/swag?

I really don't know. Lamb is going to a great player IMO and will be able to utilize his skill set much more in the nba than he did for uconn.

Probably.

I'm in a discussion with Ruzious in there about him and I think the issue also might be that Lamb is in love with his jumper as a lot of good shooters are. Does that mean he's not aggressive or that he needs to learn to utilize more of his game?

The example I used was Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton...are they not aggressive? Of course they are and those are the comparisions a lot of sites make to Lamb. The problem is unlike those 2 guys Lamb has a better ability to create his own shot and better ballhandling much like Durant.

So that's whats so intrguing and frustrating about Lamb at the same time. I feel by drafting him you are at least ensuring yourself another good young scorer like Hamilton BUT there's the opportunity to mold him into more like a SG Durant.

When Lamb mixes up his game he looks flat out DOMINANT and the KD comparisons just fly out so really I think he just needs to learn/be taught to continue to mix up his game. He's still my favorite pick out of the wings especially when I just think a coach needs to curve his addiction to the jumper because he really doesn't need to be taught ballhandling skills or shooting....just to use BOTH consistently. IF whoever takes this kid and realizes that has stolen the draft.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbtin3UBjw[/youtube]

[fredericklove]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

It's never about his hype, its about the skillset he does have which you entirely ignore, sunny.

[fredericklove]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

Could be Barnes' game is more suited as a pro than an amateur college ball player ?

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

[sunny]

I'm not arguing about his skillset (hence why I am ignoring it). Barnes is the most popular prospect. Everyone loves him. All my friends who don't follow the draft very closely all want Barnes. All the media loves him. Heck, even on this board, he is the most popular prospect outside of Davis.

[sunny]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

Could be Barnes' game is more suited as a pro than an amateur college ball player ?

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

Ya, I understand the differences between the nba and the college game and how it helps/hinders some prospects. I just personally don't understand the argument for Barnes.

Not hating, but can you explain why you think he will be more successful in the nba game than college? I really don't see it at all and would love to hear your opinion.

[Undefeated]

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

Exactly. You and I have explained about the paint being crowded like a billion times, and you'd hope that people would actually pay attention to it. But nope. Just spewing the same old.

[sunny]

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

Exactly. You and I have explained about the paint being crowded like a billion times, and you'd hope that people would actually pay attention to it. But nope. Just spewing the same old.

But Barnes doesn't drive that much. Are you expecting him to suddenly turn it on? Additionally, he will have a defender his size that he has to get by in the nba, something that he doesn't have in college.

I understand how he doesn't get the ball a lot because of Zeller and Henson, but I don't see him being able to drive through the paint at will in the nba.

[CunningLinguist]

I'm not arguing about his skillset (hence why I am ignoring it). Barnes is the most popular prospect. Everyone loves him. All my friends who don't follow the draft very closely all want Barnes. All the media loves him. Heck, even on this board, he is the most popular prospect outside of Davis.

I'm not sure that's true. He's certainly one of the more discussed prospects, but that's probably because small forward is a potential need for the team.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

You can make the crowded paint argument for Lamb at UConn but UNC's PFs can step out, particularly Henson this year, and Zeller can seal help when he wants. They're they best frontcourt in the NCAA, all they do is help Barnes, and hey don't clear the paint for him because having Harrison Barnes isoing/driving is a terrible idea. If Roy wanted that, it would happen. Stop with that nonsense.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

Exactly. You and I have explained about the paint being crowded like a billion times, and you'd hope that people would actually pay attention to it. But nope. Just spewing the same old.

lol relax, most of the regulars in this post watch just as much college ball as you. We're not blind. Sure, the paint in college is more crowded, and the defenders are also MUCH weaker, not to mention the game being a molasses pace compared to the NBA.

[fredericklove]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

I hope I don't leave the impression that I think he's the be all and end all. He's not even in my top 5 prospects in the draft. I just object to the fickleness demonstrated after any of these players have a good or bad game. I try to look at a player's strength and weaknesses objectively. Barnes has his weaknesses but he's not just this spot up shooter that he's often characterized as.

By the way, does anybody else wish they could create a super small forward by combining MKG and Barnes?

Exactly what I felt too, people are so bias using one game to make overall conclusion of a player, its indicated by so many posters here from last night. Even as a Barnes fans, I don't use one game to analyze him, I use all games to overall demonstrate his ability/weaknesses. This is why I hardly use a youtube highlight of one game to do so. He's rarely just limited to spot-up shooter. If he is, I wouldn't even want to draft him then.

[Marlo Stanfield]

If we draft Harrison I will be behind him 100%, just like I've stayed behind DeMar. I just don't feel like he's the best guy for this team. He's a great kid, I'm not trying to hate at all btw.

[fredericklove]

I should say translatable skill to the NBA. With a more open court he should be able to shoot very well in my opinion.

I think the exact opposite. He can't create his own shot, he needs a great pg to find him his open spots. Last night he didn't have Marshall, ad it showed as he was shut down by 6'2 guards from the University of Ohio. In the NBA he will have a tremendously hard time getting his shot off.

To be fair, a whole season playing with a legit point guard and suddenly having the FIRST game without him would change the environment completely. It takes more than one game to get used to not having a real good point guard. Think of the logic here, if rose plays all year, and suddenly he doesn't play this one game, you really think other players can get used to not having him right away. It takes times. I acknowledge the importance of Marshall to everyone in UNC. Last season, Barnes rely heavily on Marshall to feed him open shots (like u said, open SPOTS), but the numerous of games this season Barnes mostly create on his own from outside of 3 point line from p&r and dribble drive. What I saw last night is true that he struggles creating his own shots, but this one game doesn't overall ignore what he's been doing all season, which is the ability to create his own shot through other ways without Marshall.

One game is not enough to consistently evaluate everything, it takes more than 5-6 games sample to do that. But if he continues to struggle like that next game, I will start to have concern for Barnes then.

[Indeed]

I would have Sullinger over Harrison if he can measure out having better height and wingspan.
Although Sullinger is slightly undersize, but I see Rasheed Wallace in him, where he can play the same role in Detroit (based on skill instead of athleticism).

[Undefeated]

But Barnes doesn't drive that much. Are you expecting him to suddenly turn it on? Additionally, he will have a defender his size that he has to get by in the nba, something that he doesn't have in college.

I understand how he doesn't get the ball a lot because of Zeller and Henson, but I don't see him being able to drive through the paint at will in the nba.

Barnes' lack of a first step bothers me, but I never saw him as a player who can breakdown defenses one-on-one like Austin Rivers can/will do. Granted he doesn't attack a lot because UNC can get the ball into the post for Zeller and Henson easily, but when they don't it results in Barnes catching the ball up top or the wing and UNC going into a pick-and-roll with one of Zeller/Henson and Barnes. That's when Barnes starts to drive to the basket. And with more driving space in the NBA, that's why I think he'll succeed.

lol relax, most of the regulars in this post watch just as much college ball as you. We're not blind. Sure, the paint in college is more crowded, and the defenders are also MUCH weaker, not to mention the game being a molasses pace compared to the NBA.

Marlo, I know you're a supporter of Barnes albeit on a lesser scale and routinely join game thread discussions which is why I never directed anything at you.

[ATLTimekeeper]

To be fair, a whole season playing with a legit point guard and suddenly having the FIRST game without him would change the environment completely. It takes more than one game to get used to not having a real good point guard. Think of the logic here, if rose plays all year, and suddenly he doesn't play this one game, you really think other players can get used to not having him right away. It takes times. I acknowledge the importance of Marshall to everyone in UNC. Last season, Barnes rely heavily on Marshall to feed him open shots (like u said, open SPOTS), but the numerous of games this season Barnes mostly create on his own from outside of 3 point line from p&r and dribble drive. What I saw last night is true that he struggles creating his own shots, but this one game doesn't overall ignore what he's been doing all season, which is the ability to create his own shot through other ways without Marshall.

One game is not enough to consistently evaluate everything, it takes more than 5-6 games sample to do that. But if he continues to struggle like that next game, I will start to have concern for Barnes then.

That's a weak excuse. Zeller had a monster game. Henson was great, too. Pretty much the whole team was dragged down by Barnes' choke job.

[fredericklove]

Even Ed Davis explains the problem with college setting, its more crowded in the paint and the college game slows him down. I am pretty sure Ed knows more college basketball than any of us.

Exactly. You and I have explained about the paint being crowded like a billion times, and you'd hope that people would actually pay attention to it. But nope. Just spewing the same old.

But Barnes doesn't drive that much. Are you expecting him to suddenly turn it on? Additionally, he will have a defender his size that he has to get by in the nba, something that he doesn't have in college.

I understand how he doesn't get the ball a lot because of Zeller and Henson, but I don't see him being able to drive through the paint at will in the nba.

Sunny, he's not the type that does it at will, he understands his own limits in terms of ball-handling, but he's consistantly able to create drives when he uses p&r with the bigs, so far last night's game none of Zeller or Henson set a pick for him. BUT Barnes makes alot of mistake last night, i have to admit that, he's facing a short yet quick guard, he really fails to call for a pick, nor does he post up for size advantage, what he did last night was certainly a dumbfound mistake the entire game. I hope this is the game he learns from it and learns to know he should use his size when he faces smaller defenders and try to use pumpfake rather than just pull up recklessly.

[ty123]

Barnes is too slow to get to the rim on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

He makes Derozan look like Dwayne Wade in comparison.

[nahom1319]

If we draft Harrison I will be behind him 100%, just like I've stayed behind DeMar. I just don't feel like he's the best guy for this team. He's a great kid, I'm not trying to hate at all btw.

Good on you Marlo your a better guy than I. If we draft HB and he doesn't immidiately pan out (he's not expected to be a project by any stretch) I would troll him like a muhfuka. If he does pan out I still won't get excited by him but will concede that maybe there was more then one "right" decision. I still don't like the derozan pick had jrue as my guy that year and have been looking for his replacement ever since lol. Last year was Alec Burks this year is Bradley Beal.

[ty123]

Bradley Beal is better than Barnes at every aspect of the game. Save for shooting 3's.