Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[sunny]

you lost me a bit. At the next level, how do you think Barnes will produce most of his offense? Moreover, in what ways will this skillset be better utilized with more spacing in the paint?

[sunny]

for the record, I will cheer and support Barnes 100% if the raptors draft him. If we take him 2nd or 8th, I'd trust BC.

The only player on the raps I hate is Jose and I don't think that list will change anytime soon.

[Leolovinliberal]

And all of those players had similar stats to Drummond? Got the links handy?

quote="Leolovinliberal" Man, you love over hyped under performing players, huh? Can you name me one college player of similar size and stature to Drummond that put up similar stats who was drafted in the lottery and went on to become an NBA All Star or at least have a very long and productive career? Just one.

My what a very long and interesting list of criteria you have there.

Well how about the freshman years of these gentlemen for starters:

Tim Duncan
Akeem Olajuwon (as he was then known)
Rasheed Wallace
Antonio McDyess
David Robinson

And, no I'm not comparing Drummond to them as players, just comparing freshman stats to point out the warptness of your criteria.

The point is, you have to look at how a player is likely to translate to the next level rather than relying simply on production in college. Drummond has a lot of potential. Whether on not he reaches it is anyone's guess.

[Saciid11]

Barnes is still better prospect then MKG and Beal and will be better pro then both of them...

[nahom1319]

Barnes is still better prospect then MKG and Beal and will be better pro then both of them...

What will the winning lottery numbers be next week oh great seer?

[Marlo Stanfield]

Barnes is still better prospect then MKG and Beal and will be better pro then both of them...

I HIGHLY doubt that, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[fredericklove]

To be fair, a whole season playing with a legit point guard and suddenly having the FIRST game without him would change the environment completely. It takes more than one game to get used to not having a real good point guard. Think of the logic here, if rose plays all year, and suddenly he doesn't play this one game, you really think other players can get used to not having him right away. It takes times. I acknowledge the importance of Marshall to everyone in UNC. Last season, Barnes rely heavily on Marshall to feed him open shots (like u said, open SPOTS), but the numerous of games this season Barnes mostly create on his own from outside of 3 point line from p&r and dribble drive. What I saw last night is true that he struggles creating his own shots, but this one game doesn't overall ignore what he's been doing all season, which is the ability to create his own shot through other ways without Marshall.

One game is not enough to consistently evaluate everything, it takes more than 5-6 games sample to do that. But if he continues to struggle like that next game, I will start to have concern for Barnes then.

That's a weak excuse. Zeller had a monster game. Henson was great, too. Pretty much the whole team was dragged down by Barnes' choke job.

How is that a weak excuse? That is a fact and logic. Zeller doesn't have to create from a congested lane, just get the ball to him down low, uses his size and score, this is why you see alot of bigs with decent post skills tend to score better than the perimeter players. Can I ask you, Is Barnes choking every game? This is the one game he chokes. If he chokes every single game and I still use excuses, then I should hang myself.

[fredericklove]

You can make the crowded paint argument for Lamb at UConn but UNC's PFs can step out, particularly Henson this year, and Zeller can seal help when he wants. They're they best frontcourt in the NCAA, all they do is help Barnes, and hey don't clear the paint for him because having Harrison Barnes isoing/driving is a terrible idea. If Roy wanted that, it would happen. Stop with that nonsense.

It's not nonsense but for you to a weird argument comparison for Lamb, his style is different even if the bigs don't have outside game like the unc bigs, it doesn't affect his game, Lamb never really attack to the rim but what he has differently from barnes is his iso ability, which is well-known. Crowded paint or not doesn't impact his game, cos he always stays away from the lane and paint to get his shots so this is entirely irrelevant comparison. The UNC bigs are the best frontcourt but part of what they do is being stationary at the paint calling for shots down low, this automatically crowd the whole paint, like Ed Davis said. The only times they initiate pick and roll are the only times the paint is not congested, this is the only free space that Barnes can use to drive.

[Leolovinliberal]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

It's never about his hype, its about the skillset he does have which you entirely ignore, sunny.

Yea, but the point is, if one were to objectively look at his advanced stats, there is absolutely nothing about his skillet that stands out, nothing. I truly believe it is a case of bandwagon group think.

[Indeed]

Barnes is still better prospect then MKG and Beal and will be better pro then both of them...

It depends on how Beal measures out. Right now, some teams might think he is slightly undersize at 6'4/6'5 and lack explosiveness. I see Beal as a very good fit for the Raptors, but it doesn't mean others would value those qualities.

As for MKG, I think he can be good on an offensive team that needs lock down and energy at SF, but I see Lamb can do similar thing and with better offensive talent when motivated.

[Marlo Stanfield]

My mancrush on Peyton Siva gets stronger every time I see him play.

[nahom1319]

My mancrush on Peyton Siva gets stronger every time I see him play.

Same with me and Beal

[Marlo Stanfield]

My mancrush on Peyton Siva gets stronger every time I see him play.

Same with me and Beal

If my mancrush on Beal grew any bigger my heart would explode, I gotta spread it around

[5DOM]

Two years in a row I find myself completely agreeing with sunny

[RapsFanInVA]

I've seen Barnes in person and he didn't impress me at all.

Here was his stat line against my school, UVA:

3-15 7 points 9 rebounds 0 assists 2 TOs and he got his shot swatted out of bounds by Joe Harris, a 6'6 fundamentally sound white guy playing with a cast on his broken hand.

The other game against UVA @UNC that I watched he went 4-15 but did grab 11 rebounds

Basically, the 2 games I watched him most closely he looked like absolutely nothing special.

I've watched other UNC games and I've never been blown away by Barnes. I guess I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing.

[fredericklove]

I don't understand the desire people have for Barnes. It isn't about his basketball abilities, for whatever reason, people just yearn to like him.

Maybe its because he was hyped in highschool and compared to Kobe that some people have been on the bandwagon for too long, they don't want to get off of it.

Boggles my mind.

It's never about his hype, its about the skillset he does have which you entirely ignore, sunny.

Yea, but the point is, if one were to objectively look at his advanced stats, there is absolutely nothing about his skillet that stands out, nothing. I truly believe it is a case of bandwagon group think.

Objectively looking at advanced stats alone is not the best way to analyze a prospect. You have to look at all things on a prospect, stats alone isn't going to help you. Its just numbers, not a legit consistent observing analysis of a prospect. A poster earlier on in this thread did the same thing, he just looks at numbers and quickly prematurely pick on his skillset. Look at Beal's unspecticular assist ratio, but all of you that watches him live can clearly witness his playmaking ability.

[Marlo Stanfield]

[fredericklove]

My mancrush on Peyton Siva gets stronger every time I see him play.

Same with me and Beal

If my mancrush on Beal grew any bigger my heart would explode, I gotta spread it around

As much as indifference I have with u guys at times, especially with you nahom, but we all share the same belief that Beal is an outstanding asset to have on a raptors lineup. I've shown my love for Beal already (e.g. beal wallpaper)

[Undefeated]

you lost me a bit. At the next level, how do you think Barnes will produce most of his offense? Moreover, in what ways will this skillset be better utilized with more spacing in the paint?

Honestly, I see Barnes scoring majority of his points off the screen-and-roll in which he's shown to have great success whenever UNC decides to run some on-ball screen actions. While not deceptively quick on his feet, he has an arsenal of fakes such as a deadly jab step misdirecting his defender into one direction leading the ball with the jab then quickly changing directions, and a good pump/shot fake setting up in a triple-threat position. Barnes won't have Henson or Zeller standing stationary under the basket blocking his way to the basket when he drives unlike the NBA where one of the bigs is expected to step out to clear the driving lanes. Hence he'll have an easier time turning the corner rather than dribbling side-to-side for a pull up jumper.

[Mascot]

Take Drummond and ship out Bargnani for Tony Parker
Trade Jose for a 2nd rounder and draft Jae Crowder
Waste some Money on OJ Mayo cause face it DeRozan cant create to save his life.
Draft Fab Melo and Kris Joseph
Val is a PF not a C
sign Scoop Jardine if hes goes undrafted
re- sign bayless for 3 years and 12 million or 4 years and 16 million.

PG: Tony Parker/Jerryd Bayless/Scoop Jardine
SG: OJ Mayo/DeMar DeRozan/Gary Forbes
SF: James Johnson/Linas Kleiza/Kris Joseph
PF: Jonas Valanciunas/Ed Davis/Jae Crowder
Cc: Andre Drummond/Amir Johnson/Fab Melo