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Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9

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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#281 » by Indeed » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:28 am

fredericklove wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:You think Beal's overrated?

People are a bit worried about his size but I'm not. He's either the same height as Eric Gordon or slightly taller and projects to be the better playmaker, rebounder and maybe even defender. If we can agree that Gordon's a player than I think Beal could be even better.


He is overrated in creating his own shot in the elite league.
He doesn't have the quickness, but he is smart enough to do other things to make up for it.
He defense is good, but compare to lock down like Lamb and MKG, he won't be elite. Steals wise, both Lamb and MKG can get more steals with their wingspan.


I wanna step in and ask how Lamb's defense is lock down type? Lamb was actually heavily criticized for his inconsistent defensive effort while Beal has been putting alot of effort on defense game after game, he actually shut down his opponent evidently seen from the tourney. Even on tools, Beal's footwork/reflex/hands are better and quicker than Lamb. Wingspan can physically help you get more steals, but its also heavily based on anticipated play (defensive iq), Beal in that area is so much better than Lamb imo.


Strength. Lamb should have no problem against perimeter players, but his strength getting through screens and defending in the paint might not be that effective. Lamb is a more patient person, he showed that last year with Walker. Lamb has a better defensive IQ.

Beal looks good against college PG and SG, but I still have little doubt.

Anyway, many things are unclear until we get the draft measurement.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#282 » by ballislife » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:29 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw7RXNc75Rw[/youtube]


Lamb has a fluid game. And his arms are freakishly long... I think he has just as much/more potential than Beal and Barnes. I definitely agree that he's going to land in the top 6 on draft night. He can shoot, play D, handle the ball, and is athletic. He needs to be considered highly for our pick. Take him, and move DeRozan to the 3... tell him to bulk up.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#283 » by Indeed » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:34 am

One reason why I like Beal more than Lamb is the Free Throw Rate.
Beal is willing to drive all the way. Lamb might settle for jump shot.
If a team is using Lamb mainly on the defensive end and as a shooter, he can be a really good player (Doug Christie comes to mind). He can be a top 6 in a regular draft, but this draft is so deep that he might be fighting against teams that need bigs.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#284 » by ty123 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:45 am

Damian Lilliard is another intriguing prospect with a late pick.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#285 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:52 am

Lamb looks taller than 6'5. I think I take Lamb over Beal.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#286 » by fredericklove » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:53 am

I know this article was old but it showed Beal's character during the tourney. He wants to "fit in", I'm sure that won't be a problem for Raptors. With Val's intense vibe and Bargs and Demar's passiveness, he can fit right in and lead by performance on the floor, absorb Val's intensity and take control over the other two's flaws, lead this team through grit and play-making abilities. He'll definitely gain more confidence considering he'll get the ball in his hand alot on the Dino's roster.

PHOENIX — With Marquette bowing out late on Thursday night and Michigan State having done so earlier in the evening, the West Region is all about Louisville’s Rick Pitino and Florida’s Billy Donovan — if it wasn’t already. The storytelling about the potential mentor/mentee, player/coach matchup in the Elite Eight began on Wednesday, in the first press conferences when the teams arrived in Phoenix. Pitino told the tale of when the two met: Just after he’d taken the Providence job in 1985, Donovan “waddled” into his office, a fat (by basketball standards) guard looking for permission to transfer, hopefully to Northeastern or Fairfield. “He left the meeting,” Pitino said, “and I said a Hail Mary and thanked God he was leaving. Because he averaged four minutes a game as a freshman and sophomore.”

There was a problem: Northeastern and Fairfield didn’t think Donovan was good enough for them, either. Pitino didn’t want to hurt the kid’s feelings, so he made him an offer. If he could lose 30 pounds and get into all-out pressing shape by the fall, he’d have a shot at the back end of Providence’s rotation. Donovan did it, was the Friars’ third guard in 1985-86, then blossomed into an All-America in ’86-87, making what Pitino called the greatest improvement he’d ever seen out of a player in 35 years of coaching. Pitino went to the extent of putting Donovan on the cover of a Providence program in a cowboy hat, spurs and boots, and despite his protests, the Billy The Kid nickname was born. “That,” Pitino said, “was the start of his college legend.”

The next two days are bound to be all about the Rick-and-Billy legend, from Providence to the Knicks to Kentucky to the present. When Louisville and Florida meet on Saturday, the storyline will be focused on a Hall of Fame coach and his plucky, unwanted guard who worked his way to stardom.

Which is all well and good, but it will obscure the story that’s driving Donovan’s current Gators. That one is about another young guard, who unlike Donovan was very much wanted and hyped, to the extent that he was the No. 4 recruit in Rivals’ Class of 2011 rankings and a projected lottery pick before even playing a college game. Brad Beal, a 6-foot-4 phenom from St. Louis, had a frustrating, cold-shooting start to his college career — “He had a lot of expectations,” Donovan said, “and he wasn’t having fun” — but is now threatening to take over this quadrant of the NCAA tournament.

In one of Marquette’s scouting sessions of Florida on Wednesday, coach Buzz Williams warned his team, “Beal is by far their most efficient player, relative to the things we study — the things that go into winning.” If the Golden Eagles didn’t take heed of it then, they can just look at the box score from their 68-58 loss, in which Beal scored 21 points on 8-of-10 shooting, grabbed six rebounds, dished out four assists, blocked two shots and had two steals. He did so many things that went into winning that his backcourt mate, junior Erving Walker, called Beal’s play spectacular. “He’s only a freshman,” Walker said, “but he’s been leading us.”

Before Beal could assume this role — and go for 14 points and 11 rebounds, then 14-and-9 and 21-and-6 in his first three NCAA tournament games, he had to come to terms with two things. The first was that he wasn’t valuable to the Gators as a one-dimensional gunner, which is what he started out trying to be. Beal only made 33 percent of his threes this season, and early on, Donovan said, “If his shot wasn’t falling, he wasn’t trying to do anything else.” Donovan talked to Beal about finding other ways to contribute, such as by driving the ball to the rim and rebounding. Beal responded by penetrating and dishing more often, and becoming the team’s leading rebounder, at 6.7 per game.

The second issue was more sensitive: It became evident to Donovan — and many around the program — that Beal was the team’s best player, but he was painfully hesitant to assert himself in a backcourt that already had two veteran starters in Walker and junior Kenny Boynton. Neither were providing the leadership that Florida needed to be a real Final Four contender, though, so Donovan told Beal: “Listen, I brought you in here to bring our team to another level, and you need to stop worrying about everyone else’s feelings.”

Beal didn’t want to come across as selfish, but Florida reached a point where it needed him to take over, or it was going to suffer an early exit in the NCAA tournament. And there seems to be a mutual realization in the Gators’ locker room, as they hunt the program’s first Final Four since 2007, that this is their optimal arrangement. “Brad wanted to fit in,” Walker said. “At this time of year, it’s not about fitting in. It’s about being the best player that you can be.”

That was the case for Beal on Thursday. He was a monster in the first half, hitting two threes, and in the second, he asserted himself with three drives to the rim against a Marquette team that came into the game with a reputation of being the aggressor off the dribble. Beal played three different positions — the 2, 3 and 4 — and guarded Marquette’s star power forward, Jae Crowder, for stretches, helping hold him to 15 points on 5-of-15 shooting. The Golden Eagles wanted to win a transition game and had the athletes to do so, but it was Beal who looked indefatigable.

Earlier in the day, Beal received a series of text messages from his skills trainer, Drew Hanlen, a fellow St. Louis product who just finished his college career as the two-guard for Belmont, which lost in the first round to Georgetown. This summer in St. Louis, Hanlen ran Beal through 100 hours of workouts in 30 days to get him ready for college. Hanlen sent a photo of Beal looking absolutely dead at the end of that stretch — bent over at the waist, heaving, with his hands on his knees. “If this pic doesn’t provide motivation,” Hanlen wrote, “I don’t know what does. Remember all the hard work you put in this summer, and remember how much fun we had. … You’re the best player in college basketball, and once you truly believe that, everyone else will too.”

There’s still a lot of star power left in the bracket, including Kentucky’s Anthony Davis, Ohio State’s Jared Sullinger and Kansas’ Thomas Robinson. All three had better regular seasons than Beal did, but over the past two weeks, Beal has elevated himself to their level. He is knocking down threes (he’s made 10 of his last 21), attacking the rim and leading without worrying about stepping on anyone’s toes. Florida is his team now.

After the SEC tournament, Beal told Hanlen that he felt ready to take over like Donovan had requested. Hanlen said he and Beal talked “about how legends are made in March.” Donovan’s college story concluded with a trip to the Final Four. Will Beal’s finish the same way before he (very likely) moves on to the NBA draft?

The timeline for NCAA legend-making is shorter than it was in the ’80s. What were once four-year stories are often condensed into one. In just a few months, Beal has gone from pouty to transcendent, and in just a few weeks, he has gone from a question mark to a postseason star. When you only have one NCAA tournament in which to define yourself, you figure things out on the fly.


http://ncaa-tournament.si.com/2012/03/23/will-beal-leave-florida-a-legend/
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#287 » by Landomar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:04 am

Current top 10 for me:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Thomas Robinson
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Bradley Beal
5. Jared Sullinger
6. Andre Drummond
7. Perry Jones
8. Damian Lillard
9. Arnett Moultrie
10. Harrison Barnes (because I don't want people to think I forgot him :P)

Moultrie is my "reach." I think he's the total package, and will be a David West or Roy Hibbert type great value pick for somebody if he goes in the mid to late first. I have no high level arguments for this, but I like to trust my random hunches.

After Davis, this looks like a "red-flag" draft to me. Everybody's got a big reason to doubt them, and you just hope that whoever Toronto selects overcomes that particular issue.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#288 » by C_Money » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:30 am

We need a guy who can take over when the game is on the line and I think MKG and Beal can both do that. Harrison Barnes would just be another Demar Derozan on this team. Role player.


BTW this was my first time seeing Thomas Robinson and WOW! He is good.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#289 » by Saciid11 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:53 am

C_Money wrote:We need a guy who can take over when the game is on the line and I think MKG and Beal can both do that. Harrison Barnes would just be another Demar Derozan on this team. Role player.


BTW this was my first time seeing Thomas Robinson and WOW! He is good.



So let me guess Beal and MKG can take over games when the game is on the line and Barnes can't because of bad tournement??

Beal Chucked too in the tournament and MKG can't shoot and has much worse offense at the moment then Derozen, so how can they take over games. Barnes had bad tournament, everybody knows he will be much better pro then in college were he is playing in system that doesn't even use him right, hell the game today I didn't even see UNC run one pick and roll for Barnes ...
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#290 » by Saciid11 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:01 am

Best wing players in the draft

1. Barnes
2. MKG ... His upside is better then any wing
3. Lamb ... best scoring wing
4. Beal ... he is better overrall player then Rivers
4. River... Rivers is better scorer and second best purer scorer in the draft
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#291 » by gojoorange » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:12 am

Final Four Top 10 Draft Board:

1. Davis
2. Robinson
3. Beal
4. Sullinger
5. Barnes
6. Kidd-Gilchrist
7. Drummond
8. Lamb
9. Jones III
10. Henson
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#292 » by Mr. Perfect » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:20 am

Barnes showed more last year as a freshman than any of the other wings this year. Everyone was down on Rudy Gay too after his sophomore season. Barnes is gonna be a player, book it.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#293 » by C_Money » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:22 am

Saciid11 wrote:
C_Money wrote:We need a guy who can take over when the game is on the line and I think MKG and Beal can both do that. Harrison Barnes would just be another Demar Derozan on this team. Role player.


BTW this was my first time seeing Thomas Robinson and WOW! He is good.



So let me guess Beal and MKG can take over games when the game is on the line and Barnes can't because of bad tournement??

Beal Chucked too in the tournament and MKG can't shoot and has much worse offense at the moment then Derozen, so how can they take over games. Barnes had bad tournament, everybody knows he will be much better pro then in college were he is playing in system that doesn't even use him right, hell the game today I didn't even see UNC run one pick and roll for Barnes ...


He's got no 1 on 1 skills. He relies on other players setting him up and that is what you call a role player.

And you said it yourself. The system is bad? MKG, Beal and Lamb don't let a little thing like the "system" mess with their game because they can score without plays being called for them.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#294 » by Saciid11 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:38 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:Barnes showed more last year as a freshman than any of the other wings this year. Everyone was down on Rudy Gay too after his sophomore season. Barnes is gonna be a player, book it.


Rudy Gay is good example for Barnes... Barnes at worse will be legit second or third option and at best be will be 1st option like Paul Pierce...
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#295 » by Saciid11 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:41 am

C_Money wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
C_Money wrote:We need a guy who can take over when the game is on the line and I think MKG and Beal can both do that. Harrison Barnes would just be another Demar Derozan on this team. Role player.


BTW this was my first time seeing Thomas Robinson and WOW! He is good.



So let me guess Beal and MKG can take over games when the game is on the line and Barnes can't because of bad tournement??

Beal Chucked too in the tournament and MKG can't shoot and has much worse offense at the moment then Derozen, so how can they take over games. Barnes had bad tournament, everybody knows he will be much better pro then in college were he is playing in system that doesn't even use him right, hell the game today I didn't even see UNC run one pick and roll for Barnes ...


He's got no 1 on 1 skills. He relies on other players setting him up and that is what you call a role player.

And you said it yourself. The system is bad? MKG, Beal and Lamb don't let a little thing like the "system" mess with their game because they can score without plays being called for them.


Rudy Gay had the same problem and dropped because people thought of him the same way they think of Barnes, but at the end of the day there are players that do better in NBA then in college and i think Barnes is one of them.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#296 » by Indeed » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:49 am

Saciid11 wrote:
C_Money wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:So let me guess Beal and MKG can take over games when the game is on the line and Barnes can't because of bad tournement??

Beal Chucked too in the tournament and MKG can't shoot and has much worse offense at the moment then Derozen, so how can they take over games. Barnes had bad tournament, everybody knows he will be much better pro then in college were he is playing in system that doesn't even use him right, hell the game today I didn't even see UNC run one pick and roll for Barnes ...


He's got no 1 on 1 skills. He relies on other players setting him up and that is what you call a role player.

And you said it yourself. The system is bad? MKG, Beal and Lamb don't let a little thing like the "system" mess with their game because they can score without plays being called for them.


Rudy Gay had the same problem and dropped because people thought of him the same way they think of Barnes, but at the end of the day there are players that do better in NBA then in college and i think Barnes is one of them.


No doubt that Barnes can be a better player. Gay level? Not sure, since he is not as aggressive as he is, but he can be Gay on the defensive end (good anticipation and reaction, but not as creative).

I see marginal better between these wing players, and they will be selected based on team needs.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#297 » by God Squad » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:31 am

Thomas Robinson over sullinger. When I watch sully I have huge doubts about what he can do in the pros
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#298 » by God Squad » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am

Davis and Drummond over all
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#299 » by Laowai » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:48 am

I think other than Ed Davis this draft is over-rated.
Even Davis isn't a sure superstar but leaps and bounds the 1st choice.
I'm so happy we got Val last year.
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Re: Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9 

Post#300 » by 5DOM » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:51 am

I don't really get the Rudy Gay comparison for Barnes. Talent and athleticism have never been Gay's problems unlike Barnes'.
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