2012 NBA Draft - Part II

[mhd]

If Tyshaun Taylor were there at our 2nd round pick, I'd take him. He's much better than Mack is.

[Mmat11]

I was looking for more analysis on the top NBA draft prospects and landed upon a site with measurements listed for Thomas Robinson as well as Andre Drummond. Not sure exactly where they got these from but I will share anyway...

Thomas Robinson's profile has him 6'9", 240 pounds and a 37" vertical
http://www.timberpups.com/2012/03/spotl ... -robinson/

Those type of combine results would instantly put him as a no brainer ahead of Jared Sullinger. A 37" vertical is pretty ridiculous for a PF. I would be giddy at the prospect of having someone as simultaneously athletic and big while still having produced on a high collegiate level.


Then I looked at Drummond's profile. The measurements they had listed for him were out of this world...

Apparently 6'10", 270 pounds with a 7'5" wingpan...but has a 41" vertical leap??
http://www.timberpups.com/2012/02/spotl ... -drummond/

I am sorry. As much of I do not want to get suckered into picking a combine warrior over someone with more immediate talent ... how do you pass on these type of measurements? To put things into perspective, Wall measured with a 39" vertical at the combine.

So a question for those who have Drummond on a lower tier than Beal, MKG, Sullinger, etc. What if he comes out at the combine with these exact measurements? Does it make you hesitate? Say the Wizards get the #2 spot in the draft.

For perspective, these were Dwight Howard's measurements coming into the NBA...

6' 10.25"
240 pounds
7' 4.5" wingspan
35.5" vert

[Rafael122]

If Drummond had Robinson's mindset/work ethic he would be the top pick in this draft.

[Mmat11]

More measurements ... draftexpress already has bothThomas Robinson and Jared Sullinger listed as 6'10" and with a 7'1" wingpan. That is REALLY nice. It would immediately quell any doubts that either is a bit undersized for a PF.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tho ... nson-5496/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jar ... nger-5029/

[Nivek]

Picking a player based primarily on measurables and potential at the top of the draft would be a mistake, in my opinion. Especially when there are players with good measurables, good potential, AND production. Skills aren't something magical that some guys have and some guys don't. They're the result of work. Guys become good shooters because they practice their shooting. They become good ballhandlers because they work on it.

If a guy lacks skill it's because he hasn't put in the work needed to build that skill. And that tells you something about that player. Maybe that player will do the work necessary to develop those skills when he gets to the NBA, but maybe he won't either.

[Mmat11]

Picking a player based primarily on measurables and potential at the top of the draft would be a mistake, in my opinion. Especially when there are players with good measurables, good potential, AND production. Skills aren't something magical that some guys have and some guys don't. They're the result of work. Guys become good shooters because they practice their shooting. They become good ballhandlers because they work on it.

If a guy lacks skill it's because he hasn't put in the work needed to build that skill. And that tells you something about that player. Maybe that player will do the work necessary to develop those skills when he gets to the NBA, but maybe he won't either.

Agree. And I would be shocked if Drummond actually measured a 40+ inch vertical during the combine.

But has anyone with those measurements ever busted in the NBA?

[Nivek]

Closest person to those kinds of measurements would have to be guys like Dwight Howard and Javale. That said, I'll believe those measurements when I see 'em.

And, it calls into question Drummond's production last season. How does a guy who's 6-10 and 270 with a 41-inch vertical have such ordinary production?

[Severn Hoos]

Watch out for those measurements, Mmat. The Robinson & Sullinger measurements were from the Amare camp. I don't know how accurate they have been historically, but I don't trust any measurements until the official NBA pre-draft camp/combine.

And even then, taking the workout warrior is often a red herring. Workout/measurements are good for dispelling fears about a guy's lack of size/athleticisim, but generally should not be used to pump up the value of a guy above where it would otherwise have been. That's the path to disappointment, for the most part. Guys like Joey Graham, Joe Alexander, Shelden Williams, Steven Hunter, and many more probably went higher than they should have because their "measurables" were off the charts.

[tontoz]

Closest person to those kinds of measurements would have to be guys like Dwight Howard and Javale. That said, I'll believe those measurements when I see 'em.

And, it calls into question Drummond's production last season. How does a guy who's 6-10 and 270 with a 41-inch vertical have such ordinary production?

41" vertical? Maybe on a trampoline. That is Vince/MJ territory.

[DallasShalDune]

I'd take Robinson one million times before I'd take Drummond. I'd consider Sullinger before Drummond. Character, work ethic, and poise are more important than measurements.

[DallasShalDune]

My Big Board for top 5

1. Davis
2. Robinson
3. Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Beal
5. Barnes

[Severn Hoos]

Picking a player based primarily on measurables and potential at the top of the draft would be a mistake, in my opinion. Especially when there are players with good measurables, good potential, AND production. Skills aren't something magical that some guys have and some guys don't. They're the result of work. Guys become good shooters because they practice their shooting. They become good ballhandlers because they work on it.

If a guy lacks skill it's because he hasn't put in the work needed to build that skill. And that tells you something about that player. Maybe that player will do the work necessary to develop those skills when he gets to the NBA, but maybe he won't either.

Agree. And I would be shocked if Drummond actually measured a 40+ inch vertical during the combine.

But has anyone with those measurements ever busted in the NBA?

Since I absolutely do not believe the 41" vertical, I'll offer some combinations of wingspan & realistic vertical (though weight (or lack thereof) may have done in some of these guys:

Olowokandi: 7'8", 35.0
Shaq: 7'7", 36.0
Jason Jennings: 7'7", 32.0
James Lang: 7'6", 32.0
JV McGee: 7'6", 32.5
Darko: 7'5", 32.5
Jeremy Tyler: 7'5", 33.5
LaMarcus Aldridge: 7'5", 34.0
Deng Gai: 7'4.5", 35.5
Dwight Howard: 7'4.5", 35.5
Nene: 7'4.5", 34.0
Ekpe Udoh: 7'4.5", 33.5
Greg Oden: 7'4.25", 34.0
Cedric Simmons: 7'4.25", 35.0
Shelden Williams: 7'4.25", 33.5
Steven Hunter: 7'4", 38.5

And so on, with plenty more who never even sniffed the NBA. Database here: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/


Several All-Stars, but also lots of "busts" - or at least guys who never made it as big as their measurables would indicate they should/could have.

[Knighthonor]

Harrison Barnes vs Crawford

Which is a better pick?

[Knighthonor]

John Wall vs MKG?
Crawford vs Barnes
Davis vs NeNe
Beal vs Singleton

????

[dobrojim]

Just looked Draftexpress mock has Wizards taking MKG and then Doron Lamb in 2nd round. Gotta say, I would not be mad... that would be a pretty good draft IMO.

you gotta think that would make Wall happy, 2 more 'cats.

[Nivek]

The measurables I want are things like efficient scoring, rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. If there's a guy with great physical attributes who doesn't produce on the floor, it's important to know why. As Lamar Odom said of Javale -- the game is basketball, not run and jump.

[Knighthonor]

The measurables I want are things like efficient scoring, rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. If there's a guy with great physical attributes who doesn't produce on the floor, it's important to know why. As Lamar Odom said of Javale -- the game is basketball, not run and jump.

MKG your man?
http://swishscout.com/?page_id=710
http://nbadraft.net/
http://www.draftexpress.com/

[dobrojim]

Since this entire thread is based on hypothetical situations in the future (and it's the second hundred pages on the subject -- way to go Wizards dreamers!), I have a hypothetical scenario to put before you as food for thought. I'm not sure I have an answer. So here goes:

Wizards win the 1st pick in the lottery;

Utah calls offering their 2 first rounders + Kanter (or Favors). That would be picks like 9 or 10 plus 13 at the moment, which could net us players like Henson, Sully, Zeller, PJIII, or any one else who's fallen, plus a backcourt shooter;

and then

Portland calls offering the better of their 2 first rounders + Batum, which would probably be pick 4 or 5, getting us someone like T.Robinson, Drummond, perhaps Beal, Barnes, etc...

Do we say "screw 'em all" and take Anthony Davis, even though we have bigger holes to fill?

Or do we have enough confidence in our post rotation as it is to pass on Davis and fill some other needs?

I loved Kanter for us last year. Kentucky connection, fundamentally strong big man which we desperately needed, etc... I also like Favors because now we have Nene to cover the fundamentals big guy but no high-riser in the post rotation, as we saw the other night against Hibbert. Plus two picks to take shots at the BPA and/or fill wing holes.

And I like Batum, especially if we could get Beal or T-Rob, or even MKG, which would definitely make us competitive, if not playoff bound next year.

Then again, a frontline of Davis with Keveeen/Book/Nene and any shooters from our second rounders would be a great future.

Tough call. Thoughts? What would Ernie do? (Almost hope we don't have to find out...)

It took me a moment to think about this but eventually the light went on.
I think the answer depends on whether your goal is to win a championship
or to simply become a solid quality team. Championships are usually tied
to the presence of one or more #1#1s with DAL being a recent exception
and Dirk being a player basically no one thought would wind up being
an AllTime Great player. If you're confident that Davis is possibly close
to or at that level, you simply have to take him. If you want to win a 'ship.

[dobrojim]

I'd forgotten Washington had Dallas' 2nd round pick. They don't need another one, then. If the DX rankings are reasonably accurate, they should be able to get a couple good players in the 2nd round.

I still rather move up and get in the first round. Trade both are secound round picks for a first rounder.

on it's face, a first always sounds better than a second but at least in the
last CBA, firsts get guaranteed money giving their teams less flexibility
so if you can get a player you like in the 2nd, a potentially big if, but
if you can, you all the better off for it.

[dobrojim]

Harrison Barnes vs Crawford

Which is a better pick?

considering Crawford was a low first and hypothetically Barnes is
a mid-high lotto pick, Crawford.