Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Ruzious]

Hee, as spoken to Sam Cassell - "I do not like that trade oh Sam I am. I do not like Nene and ham."

[JonathanJoseph]

+1

As I was reading, Nivek, I got a Dr Seuss vibe from your response. Dr Seuss might have put it this way:

I do not like the trade
I don't like the man who made the trade
I don't like that the man who made the trade may stay and continue to be paid to be GM

Hilarious!

[DallasShalDune]

Ruz and CCJ with HOF posts.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Everyone keeps forgetting that Steve Novak will be an UFA.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents

I like him and several others on the list.

[closg00]

Nene and Trevor Booker both did not practice on Wednesday as the Wizards prepared to take on Indiana for the second time in eight days. Coach Randy Wittman said both players were feeling better than they did the day before but he wasn’t sure if either player would be available against the Pacers.

Nene's health is great for the tank.

[hands11]

I'm assuming EG and Co. decided it was wiser to lockdown a decent center for the next 3-4 years than HOPE they would sign an Anderson or Batum. You can argue with that decision but it does make sense on a lot of levels.

And aren't you guys always saying that long-range shooters like Batum and Anderson (although he's a good reboudner as well) are easier to find than solid, accomplished centers? I like Batum and Anderson but I'm not convinced that there aren't other good long range shooters that the Zards can sign for a lot less.

I think too much is being made of Nene's age. Providing he can remain healthy (and I know that's a big if) I can see Nene being a fairly productive player until maybe 34-35 years of age, which is not unusual for a big man. Will Nene be worth $13 mil in 2014? Probably not. But if having stabilty at center and Nene's maturity helps the Zards and its youngun's improve significantly over the next 3 years, then it was a good investment, imo.

Exactly. And you could even make the argument he has low mileage on his wheels from time missed.

His last 3 years he played. 77, 82 and 75 games. That is 12 games in 3 years. He missed more games this year then in the previous 3. Maybe he got dinged and the shorter season is not helping him get it right. Whatever got to him, it started early in the year.

Doing some searching, I see different things that have held him out a game here and a game there. back strain, Heel, calf, left forearm, bruised right knee, right hamstring tightness.

Besides missing a chunk in 2005/2006 with a knee injury, I dont see the major injury concern. What am I missing.

[hands11]

The NBA is all about perception. Javale can be the same player he was here in Denver, but on that stage and in the playoffs his value is up even if all he does is cut out the embarassing moments. Teams will view him as such and will be willing to pay him.

Ouch...

Solicitor General Donald Verrilli has become the left's fall guy for wilting like a flower in front of the Supreme Court today while defending the Obama administration's individual mandate, a key provision of the Democrats' health reform bill.

...

Offering up an alternative sports analogy, The Huffington Post's Jason Linkins tweeted "Donald B. Verrilli, Jr. is apparently the JaVale McGee of Solicitor Generals," referring to the Denver Nuggets' troubled center.

At least it didn't say "the Washington Wizards' troubled center."





OK, point #1: No, I'm not trying to inject politics into the discussion, just pointing out that McGee has become - sadly, I might add - a laughingstock that goes even beyond the sports world. But what makes it really sad is that I'm not sure he even realizes it. At least, he doesn't seem to be making any attempts to change the perception.

And point #2: I also get that the perceptions of people outside the game are of little consequence, and they certainly don't understand things like Efficiency, PER, and whatever other measures we may use to demonstrate JaVale's on-court effectiveness. But other players and agents also have some of the same perceptions, and at some point, you have to wonder if they view the entire franchise a certain way if things are tolerated or antics continue.

And it is also a bigger stage to expose his weaknesses. Besides being a knucklehead, lets not forget he gets winded because of his asthma. I am watching Denver vs Toronto right now. The teams are running up and down the court and he is not keeping up. And the announcers already got on him for being a bone head. But also said what we are well aware of. Kid has a lot of potential.

Whatever it will be, it will be exposed on a bigger stage. It could help him. It could hurt. I think he would possible have gotten offered more if he had stay a Wiz the rest of the year. Then people would think, hey, I can do more with him. Now he will have had time in Denver. If he is exposed, that could drop his value.

[Jay81]

Javale with the dunk of the year tonight

I miss him

[Jay81]

http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4ozmbjth4&rel ... bre4&gl=US

[7-Day Dray]

m watching the Denver game right now. It seems like Karl pulled McGee late in the game for poor defense. I remember Bargnani scoring a few times when McGee lost him.

[Severn Hoos]

Javale with the dunk of the year tonight

. . . in a loss to the Raptors.

[hands11]

m watching the Denver game right now. It seems like Karl pulled McGee late in the game for poor defense. I remember Bargnani scoring a few times when McGee lost him.

Yeep. And they lost to TOR. Houston now in the 8th slot. Denver in 9th.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

m watching the Denver game right now. It seems like Karl pulled McGee late in the game for poor defense. I remember Bargnani scoring a few times when McGee lost him.

He did. I didn't watch this game. Denver was up 94-88 and ended up getting outscored 17-2 the last 8:28. Karl benched Faried and McGee when it was just a three-point game or thereabouts late.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2012032828

Al Harrington scored 10 points and Kenneth Faried had 10 for the Nuggets, who took a six-point lead in the final quarter but couldn’t hold on, largely because of a poor shooting performance. Denver made just three of 20 attempts in the fourth.

Harrington, Chandler, and Lawson missed a lot of shots late--according to game tracker.

Not much going on on the Denver board, but a couple posts:

I'll jump off a bridge before I watch anymore of the Lawson/Andre/Afflalo/Chandler/Harrington lineup late.

^ ditto. i can't stand karl at this moment.

we had very good opportunities to get a couple of offensive rebounds, but with chandler and harrington? oh and besides that we can't guard for shi.. gtf outta here.

[Shorty]

CCJ,

Would you mind if I asked you about two aspects of your position on the trade? First, I recall that you suggested a couple of times that the team acquire Pau Gasol (I'm too lazy to dig them up, and I still haven't figured out how to search on the site.) I'm not very knowledgeable about players--haven't had cable until this year, to watch Wall--but Gasol seems to have a similar profile to Nene, on the surface at least: aging, two-way, skilled c/pf with a big salary. What's the difference--do you see Gasol as significantly better, say, because of length/rebounding as opposed to strength? Is it the concern about Nene getting/staying healthy?

Second, if the team hadn't traded McGee, what negotiation strategy would you have recommended? Would you have made an initial offer, or wait for offers as RFA to match? How high/long would you have been willing to go? I know that a lot of factors could go into such decisions, and for the current regime it might have been hopeless, given his history here--you asserted many times in the season, correctly, that the Zards were ready to move on without him. I'm just trying to reconcile the apparently high value you place on McGee with your prediction that he won't command big bucks from any team.

Thanks in advance, and thanks also for helping make this forum such a great place to lurk.

[jivelikenice]

m watching the Denver game right now. It seems like Karl pulled McGee late in the game for poor defense. I remember Bargnani scoring a few times when McGee lost him.

He did. I didn't watch this game. Denver was up 94-88 and ended up getting outscored 17-2 the last 8:28. Karl benched Faried and McGee when it was just a three-point game or thereabouts late.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2012032828

Al Harrington scored 10 points and Kenneth Faried had 10 for the Nuggets, who took a six-point lead in the final quarter but couldn’t hold on, largely because of a poor shooting performance. Denver made just three of 20 attempts in the fourth.

Harrington, Chandler, and Lawson missed a lot of shots late--according to game tracker.

Not much going on on the Denver board, but a couple posts:

I'll jump off a bridge before I watch anymore of the Lawson/Andre/Afflalo/Chandler/Harrington lineup late.

^ ditto. i can't stand karl at this moment.

we had very good opportunities to get a couple of offensive rebounds, but with chandler and harrington? oh and besides that we can't guard for shi.. gtf outta here.

CCJ, Denver was up 94-90 with roughly 8 minutes to go when Mcgee re-entered the game in the 4th quarter. They subbed him out with 5:30 to go with the score 94-95.

There's no conspiracy against McGee. He is what he is. I overvalued him when he was on the team until the embarrassing plays just reached a point where I had to face reality. He has physical tools, but does not get it right now. The problem is with his contract up a team is going to come along and throw a ton of money at him because they think he'll eventually get "it" under their guidance. We were in a position though where we couldn't responsibly offer him an extension.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ,

Would you mind if I asked you about two aspects of your position on the trade? First, I recall that you suggested a couple of times that the team acquire Pau Gasol (I'm too lazy to dig them up, and I still haven't figured out how to search on the site.) I'm not very knowledgeable about players--haven't had cable until this year, to watch Wall--but Gasol seems to have a similar profile to Nene, on the surface at least: aging, two-way, skilled c/pf with a big salary. What's the difference--do you see Gasol as significantly better, say, because of length/rebounding as opposed to strength? Is it the concern about Nene getting/staying healthy?

I suggested Pau and traded Andray Blatche or Rashard Lewis to the Lakers in each scenario IIRC. My idea was to pair McGee with a tall PF who can pass. I thought Pau's passing would help Wall.

Pau's game has really fallen off this season in Mike Brown's offense. He is not as good defensively as Nene but Pau is more inclined to score. They are similar in talent and to be fair, Pau makes even more than Nene and he's older. Hasn't had the injuries or missed games, though. Honestly, Pau at this point isn't playing much better. The difference is Pau has two rings and he doesn't miss many games.

If the Wizards had managed to trade Blatche or Lewis for Nene, Shorty, you wouldn't have heard me complain at all about it.

Second, if the team hadn't traded McGee, what negotiation strategy would you have recommended? Would you have made an initial offer, or wait for offers as RFA to match? How high/long would you have been willing to go? I know that a lot of factors could go into such decisions, and for the current regime it might have been hopeless, given his history here--you asserted many times in the season, correctly, that the Zards were ready to move on without him. I'm just trying to reconcile the apparently high value you place on McGee with your prediction that he won't command big bucks from any team.

Thanks in advance, and thanks also for helping make this forum such a great place to lurk.

You're welcome!

I would have kept options open. Washington had the right of first refusal on McGee, as he was a restricted free agent. The Wizards could have matched any offer and done a sign-and-trade if they just weren't happy paying that much. I think McGee is worth 4 years and up to around $38, but I think offering him $30M would have been the first offer.

What I think might have happened is Javale would have ended up accepting a 1-yr qualifying offer, if he was unhappy and no other teams stepped up.

Before signing on for Nene's contract there were many other options.

There are several Cs in this draft (Drummond, Melo, Ezeli, possibly Withey, possibly Leonard, possibly Dieng) and there are several FAs (Hibber, Hawes, Asik, R. Lopez).

I would have spent FA money on a younger guy like Ilyasova, Ryan Anderson, or Nicolas Batum.

Thanks. Pau was really just a guy who's salary would have matched Lewis' but he is useful

[jivelikenice]

Your Pau scenarios included more than Dray and Lewis though. One included Wall and I honestly can't recall the other scenario. The main point it its easy to say lets give someone Dray and Rashard but someone has to want both. I can't imagine the Lakers in a potential title run trading Pau for McGee, Dray, and Rashard....

In regards to your plan for McGee. I don't think he would have signed a 4/38 offer but how could you justify even giving him that? Its easy to say you would have done that...much tougher if you're actually in Ernie's chair making that call based on what he's done here. In reality we'll find out the summer if your scenario would have worked or if he would have gotten a contract that we and even you would have let him walk for. I'm anxiously waiting to see what happens

In regards to your alternatives at center, the draft wasn't going to give you an immediate fix at center. And you're drafting for need than rather than based on BPA. Out of the free agents you mentioned, Hibbert is good but will be a tough sign and I'm not impressed with Asik, Hawes, or R. Lopez. They're avg players who will be overpaid based on the position they play.

We still have $12-$14 MM to spend assuming we amnesty Dray and buy out Rashard so why can't you still pursue Batum, Anderson, or Ilyasova? Additionally our odds of landing either are better now than they would have been w/o the deal.

[hands11]

But they couldnt trade Dray. They tried.
Who was going to take Lewis ?

I think it is pretty clear by now that it was a good trade.

The knuckheads needed to go and they were a UFA and a RFA that has no ass except for his mother and he wanted 14M a year.

We needed a defensive vet center who could also score to anchor the post and set the stage to help the other young players grow.

I wanted them to do the keep him, match, one year thing also, but there had lot of risks.

Except for Dray who isnt playing, his team has been purged. Thats a good thing.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Your Pau scenarios included more than Dray and Lewis though. One included Wall and I honestly can't recall the other scenario. The main point it its easy to say lets give someone Dray and Rashard but someone has to want both. I can't imagine the Lakers in a potential title run trading Pau for McGee, Dray, and Rashard....

In regards to your plan for McGee. I don't think he would have signed a 4/38 offer but how could you justify even giving him that? Its easy to say you would have done that...much tougher if you're actually in Ernie's chair making that call based on what he's done here. In reality we'll find out the summer if your scenario would have worked or if he would have gotten a contract that we and even you would have let him walk for. I'm anxiously waiting to see what happens

In regards to your alternatives at center, the draft wasn't going to give you an immediate fix at center. And you're drafting for need than rather than based on BPA. Out of the free agents you mentioned, Hibbert is good but will be a tough sign and I'm not impressed with Asik, Hawes, or R. Lopez. They're avg players who will be overpaid based on the position they play.

We still have $12-$14 MM to spend assuming we amnesty Dray and buy out Rashard so why can't you still pursue Batum, Anderson, or Ilyasova? Additionally our odds of landing either are better now than they would have been w/o the deal.

They were really bad ideas, jivelikenice. One traded a lottery pick. I do remember laughing in retrospect. That was a while back and not my best work.

Also, I say a lot in this forum but there is no way I wouldn't listen to a bunch of pros and cons on my ideas if I were a real GM. Some of what Ernie does seems like panic moves to me.

[DCZards]

We still have $12-$14 MM to spend assuming we amnesty Dray and buy out Rashard so why can't you still pursue Batum, Anderson, or Ilyasova? Additionally our odds of landing either are better now than they would have been w/o the deal.

That's true. It's much more likely that a top free agent like Batum or Anderson will sign with a Wizards team anchored by Nene at C than one with the unpredictable McGee or a rookie (unless it's Davis) at PF/center.