WAS @ IND 7 PM EST - Continue the tank amidst opportunity

[jivelikenice]

Predictable overreaction on this board....He had a bad game. He's in a slump. Did you all see the stat during the broadcast where he's one of only 3 players in the NBA since the start of last season or '11 (can't recall 100%) that is averaging 16/8. The only other two are Paul and Deron Williams.

My main problem with Wall right now is that he defers to Crawford too much. Its as though he doesn't want to challenge him and is content to let Crawford try to win the game on his own (and in the process lose it)

JJ, stop acting like a martyr...you lost credibility to me because you said he had 3 good games all season. When you bring up valid or reasoned points about Wall I listen and try to give you a fair shakebut don't say ridiculous comments and than be sensitive about people questioning your credibility.

[montestewart]

Judgement isn't something you learn.

So I'll be sticking my hand in the fire to see if it's hot for the rest of my life?

[jivelikenice]

On the plus side of this, Crawford has looked a little better, mostly because they've been dropping, even if they look like the same crazy shots. I hope he's not in the team's future (or at least they plan to keep him only as a backup if they can't move him), but as laughable as it sounded when Buckhantz cited Crawford's longest in NBA 20+ game streak (even he was probably chuckling inside) it might catch the interest of opposing GMs. If Crawford finishes out the season in a like manner, this offseason might be the peak time to move him for any value.

GMs won't be fooled by Crawford. He's a bad volume player. He came in w/ the scored tier at 78 and in the next 1:15 he managed to miss two 3s and turn the ball over once. That's 3 straight moronic possessions by Crawford and Wittman give him free reign to do as he chooses. Doesn't the staff realize that on a good team Jordan will never get this much usage and they're enforcing habits that he won't be able to carry over next year is useless. Doesn't he realize that this style of play does not = being a good player and that it won't help him in the long run? No player will be successful spending significant time with him on the court. He is a TERRIBLE player.

[montestewart]

Predictable overreaction on this board....He had a bad game. He's in a slump. Did you all see the stat during the broadcast where he's one of only 3 players in the NBA since the start of last season or '11 (can't recall 100%) that is averaging 16/8. The only other two are Paul and Deron Williams.

My main problem with Wall right now is that he defers to Crawford too much. Its as though he doesn't want to challenge him and is content to let Crawford try to win the game on his own (and in the process lose it)

JJ, stop acting like a martyr...you lost credibility to me because you said he had 3 good games all season. When you bring up valid or reasoned points about Wall I listen and try to give you a fair shakebut don't say ridiculous comments and than be sensitive about people questioning your credibility.

Well, he has had a string of bad games recently, and we close watchers are going to react, but as nate33 said, most on this board still see plenty of talent. I want to see how he reacts to this challenge; that is, how willing is he to work at expanding his abilities in the halfcourt, since they've traded away two of his fast break targets. I don't like Wall deferring to Crawford either, but it seems to have taken off since the trade, and maybe is a byproduct of his difficulty adjusting to the slower pace. It looks really feeble sometimes.

Re the stat (I think it was since the beginning of 2010-11 season), they also mentioned Crawford's longest in NBA 20+ game streak. I take stats like that with a grain of salt. Wall was the low bar, and two top players were well above him. Maybe he'll belong there someday, but he's not there yet.

[JonathanJoseph]

Predictable overreaction on this board....He had a bad game. He's in a slump. Did you all see the stat during the broadcast where he's one of only 3 players in the NBA since the start of last season or '11 (can't recall 100%) that is averaging 16/8. The only other two are Paul and Deron Williams.

My main problem with Wall right now is that he defers to Crawford too much. Its as though he doesn't want to challenge him and is content to let Crawford try to win the game on his own (and in the process lose it)

JJ, stop acting like a martyr...you lost credibility to me because you said he had 3 good games all season. When you bring up valid or reasoned points about Wall I listen and try to give you a fair shakebut don't say ridiculous comments and than be sensitive about people questioning your credibility.

Yes, and have you seen the stat where Tyreke Evans is the only player besides MJ, Lebron and Oscar Robinson to average 20/5/5 as a rookie? Well Tyreke Evans has already been replaced by a rookie 2nd round draft pick. At some point, the statistics don't mean much if it doesn't translate to winning.

[Dat2U]

I will not feed the trolls.
I will not feed the trolls.
I will not feed the trolls.
Repeat x/100

[Dat2U]

Beyond that I'm happy. Wall will figure it out. There are a few people here that do remember he's a 2nd year PG so struggles are to be expected.

Were competitive which is a nice step forward but winning too soon has it's disadvantages. Learning to win is the next step and I'm really looking forward to learning how to win next season with our top 3 pick in the fold.

[jivelikenice]

Predictable overreaction on this board....He had a bad game. He's in a slump. Did you all see the stat during the broadcast where he's one of only 3 players in the NBA since the start of last season or '11 (can't recall 100%) that is averaging 16/8. The only other two are Paul and Deron Williams.

My main problem with Wall right now is that he defers to Crawford too much. Its as though he doesn't want to challenge him and is content to let Crawford try to win the game on his own (and in the process lose it)

JJ, stop acting like a martyr...you lost credibility to me because you said he had 3 good games all season. When you bring up valid or reasoned points about Wall I listen and try to give you a fair shakebut don't say ridiculous comments and than be sensitive about people questioning your credibility.

Yes, and have you seen the stat where Tyreke Evans is the only player besides MJ, Lebron and Oscar Robinson to average 20/5/5 as a rookie? Well Tyreke Evans has already been replaced by a rookie 2nd round draft pick. At some point, the statistics don't mean much if it doesn't translate to winning.

Evans hasn't been a 20/5/5 player in a year and a half. That Wall stat is as of today. Its just comical. Wall averages 8.1 assists per game for his career yet is accused of having low bball IQ, bad decision making, and basically a dumb player who is not really a point guard. He's only 9th in the league in assists playing on a team with no shooters and just BAD overall talent but he's a moron who can't do anything but run.

[Illuminaire]

I will not feed the trolls.
I will not feed the trolls.
I will not feed the trolls.
Repeat x/100

But Dat, some of them seem to be self-feeding...

[montestewart]

On the plus side of this, Crawford has looked a little better, mostly because they've been dropping, even if they look like the same crazy shots. I hope he's not in the team's future (or at least they plan to keep him only as a backup if they can't move him), but as laughable as it sounded when Buckhantz cited Crawford's longest in NBA 20+ game streak (even he was probably chuckling inside) it might catch the interest of opposing GMs. If Crawford finishes out the season in a like manner, this offseason might be the peak time to move him for any value.

GMs won't be fooled by Crawford. He's a bad volume player. He came in w/ the scored tier at 78 and in the next 1:15 he managed to miss two 3s and turn the ball over once. That's 3 straight moronic possessions by Crawford and Wittman give him free reign to do as he chooses. Doesn't the staff realize that on a good team Jordan will never get this much usage and they're enforcing habits that he won't be able to carry over next year is useless. Doesn't he realize that this style of play does not = being a good player and that it won't help him in the long run? No player will be successful spending significant time with him on the court. He is a TERRIBLE player.

I'm not disagreeing, but I've been watching the NBA for 40 years, and I've seen a lot of teams trade for terrible players. Unfortunately, most of them ended up here.

[veji1]

I think what Wall needs is to practice and play along some veteran leadership. Finding a solid, experienced bench PG to pair him with would be very positive in his development. This team need a few vets that, even if for some of them they don't play much, can help mentor the team, show the guys how an inside /outside game works, how you need to sometimes slow the ball and then pick up the tempo again, how to reset sets when the defense muddies, etc...

I don't have a list of PG FAs at hand, but having an experienced PG to help is important. The FO needs to go for a player known for his smarts, even if he is on the wrong side of 33/34... Heck Derrick Rose learnt quite a lot having Lindsay Hunter as a third string PG for the first few seasons of his carreer. Not that Hunter was any good anymore, but he taught him PG defense and helped him understand the game. Without Kurt Thomas and Lindsay Hunter in the first few years, the Bulls wouldn't have become the team they are today.

Wall might not ever be one of the very best NBA PGs, but he damn sure belongs to the second group if he can get the right help and develop. This summer should be about : getting the best draftee available, not going overboard but offering very good money to try to get a solid 2/3 starter, and get a couple of vets to help steady the ship, one buying a 2nd or 3rd string PG.

[dangermouse]

It seems like everyone BUT Ernie Dumbfeld realises Wall could use a veteran backup/mentor PG.

We better damn well be getting one next season.

[queridiculo]

Sounds like this team is a few mentors away from being a championship contender. Get err done Ernie!

[7-Day Dray]

Another win (loss) for the tank!

On our way to a top 3 pick!

[closg00]

I'm still on the Wall train. Haven't given up on him yet. I think year 3 will be key for him in determining whether he is a franchise cornerstone for us or whether we are better off w/o him. Nonetheless, I do think we need to bring in more capable backup than Mack this summer and possibly someone who can start if Wall struggles. Aaron Brooks of who is playing this year in CBA b/c of lockout comes to mind. Word is he is having a great year there leading his team to finals. He is technically an RFA of PHX but word is its unlikely they sign him to multi-year deal. He is 2 years removed from being the most improved player in NBA when he was at HOU and PHX thought so highly of him they trade Goran Dragic and a #1 pick for him. I think he would be a great backup PG addition for this ballclub next year. He's only 27 year old and I just remember him having a great feel for the game when I saw him play in HOU. I think that is the biggest know on Wall right now more than anything.

+1 I like Brooks, but IIRC, he was a bit of a management problem, that's why Houston traded him. Ideally, we luck into finding the next Jenkins, Lin, John, Lucas via FA or draft.

[llcc25]

I'm still on the Wall train. Haven't given up on him yet. I think year 3 will be key for him in determining whether he is a franchise cornerstone for us or whether we are better off w/o him. Nonetheless, I do think we need to bring in more capable backup than Mack this summer and possibly someone who can start if Wall struggles. Aaron Brooks of who is playing this year in CBA b/c of lockout comes to mind. Word is he is having a great year there leading his team to finals. He is technically an RFA of PHX but word is its unlikely they sign him to multi-year deal. He is 2 years removed from being the most improved player in NBA when he was at HOU and PHX thought so highly of him they trade Goran Dragic and a #1 pick for him. I think he would be a great backup PG addition for this ballclub next year. He's only 27 year old and I just remember him having a great feel for the game when I saw him play in HOU. I think that is the biggest know on Wall right now more than anything.

+1 I like Brooks, but IIRC, he was a bit of a management problem, that's why Houston traded him. Ideally, we luck into finding the next Jenkins, Lin, John, Lucas via FA or draft.

that option is fine too but he only way we luck into finding the next Jenkins, Lin or Lucas in draft is with a new GM. Let's just hope Ernie doesn't get that chance. lol

[Rafael122]

If only this team had shooters...

[dobrojim]

Beyond that I'm happy. Wall will figure it out. There are a few people here that do remember he's a 2nd year PG so struggles are to be expected.

Were competitive which is a nice step forward but winning too soon has it's disadvantages. Learning to win is the next step and I'm really looking forward to learning how to win next season with our top 3 pick in the fold.

+1

but I would also add that perhaps we might apply some of the same
patience to Craw. We all see him take bad shots too often. No argument
there. But we need to look at who he is playing with. That's probably
why Witt has given him a lot of rope. I can still envision him as a 3rd
guard Vinnie Johnson type player who would be useful. He's not that
far from being a decent player after playing ~ a year of NBA ball.

[jivelikenice]

Wall & Crawford are taking the opposite approach. Wall presses at times but I think we all for the most part want to see him take ownership and try to take over games start to finish. He's the most talented player on the roster and its maddening when he plays passive and defers.

Crawford doesn't have an issue with deferring or taking lead. The way he's playing won't correlate to a good team in any meaningful role. Its bad when Buckhantz is questioning shot selection every broadcast.

[fishercob]

The chat was fun last night.