Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Ruzious]

Amazing video. Thanks for posting it. And what a great front office Denver seems to have - a tremendous blend of talents and personalities (and dogs!). It made me think - how can we have Ernie Grunfeld as the front man dealing with that group? It's so wrong! What would the trade have been if we had a group like Denver has?

[nate33]

Can we stop with all the hate? EG isn't incompetent, at least not when he has the proper strategic vision from his owner. He may deserve to be fired for the Mike Miller trade, but since then, he has done pretty well. I agree that he's more of a technician rather than a guy with a strategic vision, but so far under Ted vision, Ernie's technical abilities have panned out pretty well.

He did a masterful job in blowing up the overpaid roster, saving a ridiculous amount of money on Arenas and Jamison, while also getting a pick.

He had a monster draft in 2010. He turned our #30 pick plus our #33 pick and $5M in cap space into Booker, Seraphin and Hinrich. He later traded Hinrich for cap relief and Crawford.

His 2011 draft doesn't look so good, but it may be too early to judge. Vesely certainly isn't a finished product, and Singleton was a guy we all were happy about given where he was drafted.

He made a solid move with the McGee trade that appears to be panning out well, and he made the right call with banishing Blatche to the weight room.

[Jazzfan12]

I knew teams were shooting worse but i wasn't expecting the defensive rebounding to get better without McGee. Mcgee was our best rebounder and Nene didn't play in all the games. I am guessing the 3 spot is where the difference lies since Nick wound up playing the 3 a lot in the 4th quarters.

Actually, McGee has shown to have maybe the worst effect on team defensive rebounding of any player in the NBA over the last few years:

2012: 69.4% with him off the court, 63.8% with him on the court
2011: 70.1% off court, 66% on court


http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS15.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS22.HTM

[Ruzious]

I knew teams were shooting worse but i wasn't expecting the defensive rebounding to get better without McGee. Mcgee was our best rebounder and Nene didn't play in all the games. I am guessing the 3 spot is where the difference lies since Nick wound up playing the 3 a lot in the 4th quarters.

Actually, McGee has shown to have maybe the worst effect on team defensive rebounding of any player in the NBA over the last few years:

2012: 69.4% with him off the court, 63.8% with him on the court
2011: 70.1% off court, 66% on court


http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS15.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS22.HTM

It's probably the effect of selling out for blocks - though I had thought he improved on that this season. When he does that, it leaves a clear lane for an offensive put-back.

Nate, I will give you that Ernie is a master at accumlulating average players, but a good GM has to come up with a gem at least once in a while. He hasn't done that throughout his entire career - without getting the 1st pick in the draft. And as I've said several times, I don't think he's shown any vision throughout his career in how to build a potential championship team. I question whether that's even been his objective. I think his objective has been to be safe/average to keep his job.

[queridiculo]

EG has done a better job than he is getting credit for, but so far it looks like the 2011 draft was an unmitigated disaster.

To think that Washington could have both Leonard and Farried on the team makes me sick to my stomach.

I do like Singleton and I like what I've seen from Vesely, but that doesn't change the fact that he missed out on two guys that could have made this team better across the board.

[miller31time]

Not that I don't have my problems with Ernie Grunfeld but he wasn't the only guy who struck out on Faried. Kenneth was taken 22nd so there were more than a handful of GMs who didn't believe the kid would be as good as he is.

I think it's a shame we didn't get him at 18 but there are a lot of teams who say the same thing.

What I'm upset about is Vesely at 6. I know the decision was praised by many in the media but I absolutely hated it.

[Severn Hoos]

To me, there's good news/bad news in the numbers nate is posting. Actually, maybe "bad" is too strong - unless you're singularly focused on the tank, which is clearly in jeopardy with all of this newfound competence.

nate has pointed out that the Wiz have played several playoff teams during this stretch: Indiana, Atlanta, Boston, Philly. The fact that they have played well against playoff teams (especially considering that all of those teams are jockeying for playoff position, so are trying their hardest, unlike the last week or two of the season) bodes well for the future.

I really do think that this team, with solid coaching, good health, and some new talent this summer (draft pick & FA) should be a playoff team next year. They've certainly upgraded the BBIQ, and the key to becoming a .500 team is playing smart, executing efficiently every game, and not losing to inferior opponents. They have a MUCH better chance to do that with Nene on the court vs. JaVale.

That said, they have played no teams in this stretch that I would consider elite. No Western teams, and none of the top 3 Eastern teams: Chicago, Miami, Orlando. If they are able to play at the same level when the opponent gets better, then I might start to believe.

But really - is there any reason to think they can't be better than NYK, Mil, Tor, Det, NJN, Cle?

[Ruzious]

I'll even give EG a pass on Leonard (though I won't on Faried). Nostradamus couldn't have predicted Leonard would be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA. He made less than 30% of his college 3's, and he wasn't even that good on 2's - making under 48%. That's why I'm still skeptical he can keep this up. I still say he picked Singleton mainly to pander to local fans.

[Saqs]

This trade is looking more and more lopsided by the day lol.

[hands11]

Not that I don't have my problems with Ernie Grunfeld but he wasn't the only guy who struck out on Faried. Kenneth was taken 22nd so there were more than a handful of GMs who didn't believe the kid would be as good as he is.

I think it's a shame we didn't get him at 18 but there are a lot of teams who say the same thing.

What I'm upset about is Vesely at 6. I know the decision was praised by many in the media but I absolutely hated it.

I think your view will end up being dead wrong as more time passes. I wasn't a fan of Ves at 6th either. I wanted a trade down. But I am seeing more clearly as things pan out what EG did. He drafted a McGee replacement, not a SF project. And Ves is way ahead of schedule in that regards and he has the all important elements of a kid that is going to be good player in the NBA. He just needs to summer to work on his body and his shot and things will take off for him. Its looking more and more like a solid pick for the long term plan which involved moving McGee. McGee was going to get better on the court in some ways but it wasn't probable that he magically got smarter. That takes years and a lot of luck if it every happens. See Nick and Dray.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1163855

And to that he is getting stronger. He showed up to camp stronger then I thought he would be and now he look even stronger still. Most of us though the kid would be a bean poll. And he has the all important lower body strength. Something McGee may never have because McGee has no butt. You can see when Ves is running that he has lower body strength and a lower center of gravity.

So basically by this test, he already has two of the three and the all important one, BBIQ. And the does have some skills as well. All he is really lacking is more offensive skills. If and when he adds that, you have the making of the triple play. The kid can add a shot. He has good form. I have little doubt he will add at least an average outside midrange. Look how much better Booker looks this year and he doesn't even have that great form.

There really is little reason to worry about Ves. He is going to be a good basketball player. In fact, he has a good chance to be a very good player. If McGee intrigued you, you should really be intrigued by Vesely. A little more strength, experience and a 10-12 footer is going to totally change his game. Once he hits the 10-12 footer, then he will be able to drive. And he won't only drive, he will drive and dish. He already has great court vision. Give the kid at least one offseason. He hasnt even had that yet.

[closg00]

I'll even give EG a pass on Leonard (though I won't on Faried). Nostradamus couldn't have predicted Leonard would be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA. He made less than 30% of his college 3's, and he wasn't even that good on 2's - making under 48%. That's why I'm still skeptical he can keep this up. I still say he picked Singleton mainly to pander to local fans.

How would Ernie be pandering to local fans by selecting Singleton?

Re: Leonard, the Spurs correctly anticipated that Leonard would be solid player and they made-sure that they got him. However, he is probably exceeding even their expectations.

[hands11]

EG has done a better job than he is getting credit for, but so far it looks like the 2011 draft was an unmitigated disaster.

To think that Washington could have both Leonard and Farried on the team makes me sick to my stomach.

I do like Singleton and I like what I've seen from Vesely, but that doesn't change the fact that he missed out on two guys that could have made this team better across the board.

You really can't look at GMing in such a short term. You have to look at the longer term plan. If that was to clean house before and this year get one more high pick, then the plan they choose is working very well. And we know this was the plan so we really don't have to guess. We just didnt know every detail about how they would do it.

It was a strike shortened year. This was the year to design a tank if you were looking to do that one more year. If they added to much offensive via Brooks or Faried, they would maybe get to good to soon to tank one final year. Instead they went 3D defender and post prospect to replace McGee if needed.

They clearly were evaluating Nick and McGee one final time with the idea of moving them if they didnt pass the final test which was to see if they could become not so stupid. They didnt and he did trade them.

It was always going to be an evaluation year. They were not looking to be good enough to win. They still had evaluating and cleaning up to do and they had Booker to look at so why get Faried. Well, if that was the plan, it looks to be working perfectly. They moved McGee and Nick who were idiots and added Nene. Dray is inactive and so is Lewis. They had vets that didnt get in the way of the tank but added training wheels while they needed them. I have a hard time believing Lewis couldn't play right now if they wanted him to. They shelved him to make time for younger players to get evaluated.

So here we are. The roster looks solid and they have a high pick on the way. The team is starting to gel with solid defense and a post presences. They have a vet leader now and it is a post player. They have cap. They have options on what to do with Lewis contract and even Dray isnt an issue.

They are sitting pretty damn well. Solid team. Young talent. Picks. Cap. Expiring huge contract. At this point, I am actually hoping they don't change the team to much because I like what they have. With some luck, everything will fall into place perfectly for next year. At this point, I just hope they don't over do the roster changes. I like the core that is here. But more evaluating is still to be done. This is a new roster with the addition of Nene and Martin. Steady as she goes.

[hands11]

I'll even give EG a pass on Leonard (though I won't on Faried). Nostradamus couldn't have predicted Leonard would be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA. He made less than 30% of his college 3's, and he wasn't even that good on 2's - making under 48%. That's why I'm still skeptical he can keep this up. I still say he picked Singleton mainly to pander to local fans.

How would Ernie be pandering to local fans by selecting Singleton?

Re: Leonard, the Spurs correctly anticipated that Leonard would be solid player and they made-sure that they got him. However, he is probably exceeding even their expectations.

And he was plugged into an established SA team. Very different them plugging him into what was here. No way he would have played as well here.

[Ruzious]

I'll even give EG a pass on Leonard (though I won't on Faried). Nostradamus couldn't have predicted Leonard would be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA. He made less than 30% of his college 3's, and he wasn't even that good on 2's - making under 48%. That's why I'm still skeptical he can keep this up. I still say he picked Singleton mainly to pander to local fans.

How would Ernie be pandering to local fans by selecting Singleton?

Re: Leonard, the Spurs correctly anticipated that Leonard would be solid player and they made-sure that they got him. However, he is probably exceeding even their expectations.

He was the popular choice in the area - maybe because he was a well-kown ACC player - I'm not exactly sure why. But there was a pre-draft poll done - I think by the Post - and he was easily the local favorite for the Wiz to pick.

[Rafael122]

Eh, that's a reach Ruz. Singleton from all accounts was considered one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft. He dropped, fell in our laps basically. I didn't think Ernie expected him to be there.

[montestewart]

I'll even give EG a pass on Leonard (though I won't on Faried). Nostradamus couldn't have predicted Leonard would be a good 3 point shooter in the NBA. He made less than 30% of his college 3's, and he wasn't even that good on 2's - making under 48%. That's why I'm still skeptical he can keep this up. I still say he picked Singleton mainly to pander to local fans.

How would Ernie be pandering to local fans by selecting Singleton?

Re: Leonard, the Spurs correctly anticipated that Leonard would be solid player and they made-sure that they got him. However, he is probably exceeding even their expectations.

He was the popular choice in the area - maybe because he was a well-kown ACC player - I'm not exactly sure why. But there was a pre-draft poll done - I think by the Post - and he was easily the local favorite for the Wiz to pick.

Bullets Forever poll that has Singleton proposed by 14% (behind Vesely, Leonard, and Knight) as a 5th pick
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/6/4/ ... -pick-no-5

and another with two-thirds of voters giving draft B+ or higher rating
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/6/23 ... -nba-draft

I think a lot of people felt apprehension about Vesely at #6, but it was offset a little by Singleton falling to the Wizards at #18. Cue CCJ.

[Ruzious]

Eh, that's a reach Ruz. Singleton from all accounts was considered one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft. He dropped, fell in our laps basically. I didn't think Ernie expected him to be there.

I think that's exactly what Ernie was counting on people thinking - and it was conventionally mediocre thinking - which has been the problem.

Thanks for digging that up, Monte.

[JonathanJoseph]

Can we stop with all the hate? EG isn't incompetent, at least not when he has the proper strategic vision from his owner. He may deserve to be fired for the Mike Miller trade, but since then, he has done pretty well. I agree that he's more of a technician rather than a guy with a strategic vision, but so far under Ted vision, Ernie's technical abilities have panned out pretty well.

He did a masterful job in blowing up the overpaid roster, saving a ridiculous amount of money on Arenas and Jamison, while also getting a pick.

He had a monster draft in 2010. He turned our #30 pick plus our #33 pick and $5M in cap space into Booker, Seraphin and Hinrich. He later traded Hinrich for cap relief and Crawford.

His 2011 draft doesn't look so good, but it may be too early to judge. Vesely certainly isn't a finished product, and Singleton was a guy we all were happy about given where he was drafted.

He made a solid move with the McGee trade that appears to be panning out well, and he made the right call with banishing Blatche to the weight room.

Good post.

Worth noting that it looks like the Seraphin pick is going to turn out to be a huge win for Grunfeld. Had we merely taken someone like Leonard instead of either Vesely or Singleton, we'd be feeling pretty good right now with a draft pick and free agent coming next year. The rebuild is actually much farther along than we thought recently.

[miller31time]

Just checking some box scores, McGee played only 11 minutes in tonight's game against the Magic.

He was 1/3 from the field with 2 points, 7 rebounds and a staggering 5 turnovers, 2 fouls and a -19 for the game.

[tontoz]

Just checking some box scores, McGee played only 11 minutes in tonight's game against the Magic.

He was 1/3 from the field with 2 points, 7 rebounds and a staggering 5 turnovers, 2 fouls and a -19 for the game.

Howard didn't even play.